Irkalla
ENTP POWWWEEEEEER
Is this a joke?
Can only hook into Events, GameEvents, or LuaEvents?
- Thread starter Irkalla
- Start date
whoward69
DLL Minion
Which one(s) did you want to hook?
Irkalla
ENTP POWWWEEEEEER
Wanting to hook nonevents.
Irkalla
ENTP POWWWEEEEEER
Trying to make the game think something is road when it's not, to make it function like road.
Another thing I was trying to do was to change the rules about disembarking. I've got a unit that can embark but not disembark, and my inability to do anything is giving me a headache.
Might want to look into DLL modification if you wanna start modifying game rules.
the first one needs DLL modification, has it need to edit the pathfinder rules (good luck)
for the second, use GameEvents.UnitSetXY, check if the unit is embarked and remove the embarked promotion then (that will prevent it from disembarking). There will be a small issue with the pathfinder preview that will show paths via water to other landmass for the unit while it can't reach them.
Irkalla
ENTP POWWWEEEEEER
I want it to be able to disembark. I've given it the hover domain so that it can attack at sea as well as land. The hover domain seems to cause CanDisembark stuff to return false.
Irkalla
ENTP POWWWEEEEEER
My bad
IIRC there are some threads about helicopters and embarkation, but I can't remember where.
Helicopters don't use hover domain. They use Land I believe.
whoward69
DLL Minion
The hover domain is a fudge to get Airships working for the Smokey Skies scenario. As that scenario doesn't use helicopters they (Firaxis) didn't care too much about the impact of DOMAIN_HOVER on non-Airships (which have a few other promotions to get them to work properly).
Getting units to hover over coast but embark at deep water is a huge amount of work in the DLL - it's not just the path-finding for the hovering units, but also the path-finding / attack logic for land/sea units that can encounter them - see http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=492061 (and I've still not got it working correctly in all situations)
Getting units to hover over coast but embark at deep water is a huge amount of work in the DLL - it's not just the path-finding for the hovering units, but also the path-finding / attack logic for land/sea units that can encounter them - see http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=492061 (and I've still not got it working correctly in all situations)
Irkalla
ENTP POWWWEEEEEER
If I could just hook into a method and change its behaviour... This would be a simple one liner in Lua. But noooooo.
You know, I hear there were mods bundled with a Civ 4 Expansion. That will never happen with Civ 5 because there are no mods that meet the bar. And there are none that meet the bar because we haven't been given the tools to make decent mods.
I think I'm gonna write a petition or something, get a bunch of signatures, then send it to them. They should know that we demand a modding update. With the third expansion due for release within the coming weeks, we all know the time has come for us to take the reins and keep Civ 5 going. But without proper tools to do so, the game will stagnate and die off not long after we have our fun with the expansion.
Knowing that you need to change the pathfinder, I'm curious, what would be that magical line ?
Civ5 modding tools are better than civ4 modding tools. Simply because there wasn't any Civ4 modding tools except the world builder.
Better add what are the limitations that need to be fixed, the tools that need to be repaired or the hardcoding that need to be removed in Pazyryk's thread, and send that to them. "proper tools" need to be defined.
Irkalla
ENTP POWWWEEEEEER
The magical line would be stuffing an extra condition into CanDisembark. That's pretty much it. Units in the Hover Domain return true for Embark and False for Disembark, probably because they're based on Domain Naval. ANY unit that has ANY embarkation promotion should be able to both embark and disembark. It's a no brainer.
Firetuner is great. I'll give you that. Worldbuilder is expected. Modbuddy is a fancy notepad. And don't get me started on Nexus.
By proper tools, I mean hammers as well as nails. We're locked out of various entrypoints such as the ones needed for soundscripts and sound defines. We have no tools available to allow us to reasonably make and add 3D models to the game. Lua needs way more hookable functions. Stuff's hacked in in such a way that prevents us from really exploring the mechanics of the game as modders. We're given the toys in the toybox to play with. If we want to make our own toys, we're SOL. We also need to be able to mod the game in a reasonable fashion without having to resort to such heavy handed tactics as custom DLL's. This may be fine for TC's, but what about people that want to add Unique civilizations? I've been having a hell of a time trying to make original stuff with the restrictions I've been given, and I'm really starting to resent all of the ideas I HAVEN'T discussed here because they'd be impossible to implement in the modular manner that was intended for such things. Some of them would be pretty neat though.
Modding just really feels like something that they earnestly wanted to get right at first, but over time modding has become more and more of an afterthought. But it's what I've come to expect from 2K games.
It's really getting me down, man. Maybe I sound over-committed or something, but I really want to deliver good stuff to the community and the fact that I seem to be getting cut off at every turn really brings me down.
Don't get me wrong, though. Neither 2K nor Firaxis is the enemy here. The state of modding in Civ 5 is. There's just so much potential here that is untapped, it's mindboggling.
I agree with some of what you've written, but still don't see how it relates to the difference between civ4 and civ5 modding scenes.
You can do more without the DLL on civ5 than civ4 for example.
And talking of "modular manner", do you remember how many mods you can activate at the same time with civ4 ?
That said, there are a lot of things that need to be fixed for civ5 modding, yes, and if we want them to be fixed, we have to list them.
Note that we can't hook Lua events on any part of the DLL, unless you're wanting to have the time to read a good book during each AI turn.
About your issue, embarking/disembarking is complex stuff, even if you could change the value returned by CanDisembark, it won't solve your problem (see Whoward's post), that's a core rule you're trying to change, you can't expect the devs to plan everything modder's imagination will want to do and add a switch to it, such a game would take forever to be released.
You can do more without the DLL on civ5 than civ4 for example.
And talking of "modular manner", do you remember how many mods you can activate at the same time with civ4 ?
Spoiler :
That said, there are a lot of things that need to be fixed for civ5 modding, yes, and if we want them to be fixed, we have to list them.
Note that we can't hook Lua events on any part of the DLL, unless you're wanting to have the time to read a good book during each AI turn.
About your issue, embarking/disembarking is complex stuff, even if you could change the value returned by CanDisembark, it won't solve your problem (see Whoward's post), that's a core rule you're trying to change, you can't expect the devs to plan everything modder's imagination will want to do and add a switch to it, such a game would take forever to be released.
Irkalla
ENTP POWWWEEEEEER
In regards to your last point, I really don't think it would take that much time at all to release. The trick is getting it right the first time and not having to go back and redo it.
Ideally this would be augmented by some sort of design council, sort of like the one in Warframe. Members of the modding community, well known and lesser known. The council has a direct channel to the developers, and can talk about things and problems specific to us. Or maybe just a simple issue tracker.
Things that need fixing are the farm crash bug, more Lua hooks, fix some lesser used things so that we can make decent use of them, replace hacky specific tags with more open ended tags (FriendlyWoodsAsRoad is a good example; could be replaced with FriendlyFeatureIsRoad, FriendlyTerrainIsRoad.) Also, we need to make it so that FEATURE_RIVER and FEATURE_LAKE will show up when the game expects a FeatureType and not a FakeFeature.
This is my two cents. But I wouldn't feel right demanding a whole list of changes written by me on behalf of the entire community.
