Can someone lead me to a tech tree thats realistic?

[algoody421]

History tells us the entire start of the tree was already learned by 4000BC, where the game begins. We already knew pottery, farming, we already knew bow and arrows. We already had pastures for cows. We already had the wheel. We had already been mining and working with copper and gold. Theres absolutely no reason we should have to learn how to make boats(not necessarily ships that fight but at least the builder boats) when they were invented between 8000 and 7600 bc.

All Im saying is there's a lot of stuff that should already be available from the beginning of the game that they make us learn. And by giving every civilization those techs, you allow earlier development of empires. You just slow down the research of early technologies to balance it back out. Besides, its ridiculous being in the medieval era at 300 ad.

Has anyone already done this or could anyone tell me how to do it? I just find it ridiculous that they do this every iteration. I dont care if every civilization didnt have those technologies by then. I care about when things were actually invented, anywhere. Thats when they should be available. If they were already available before the game starts, thats how the game should start...

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

I had this dilemma when I assembled my tech tree for my Civ 5 mod. So I started the game at 10,000 bc. Starting at 4000 bc would require removing Mining, Husbandry, Archery and Pottery.
The Wheel, Writing, Bronze Working, and Sailing should be the starting techs since they were all invented or discovered between 4000 and 3000 bc as far as we know. Just start your game in the classical era and you pretty much solve your problem.

I personally feel that the game should begin at writing. Writing is simply the beginning of history. I'm actually surprised Agriculture was removed since it is the iconic beginning of civilization .

 

[Cosmic Fox]

If you want to be "realistic" begin the game at 250,000 years ago this is when man began his trek as a human as we know it (look it up). The fact is this isn't real, it is a game we must keep this in mind.

I do agree though the ideal point to begin this type of game is either way back further or change the entire way the technology is being researched and what we already know. There needs to be more eras as well if you make the game begin further back.

Caveman 2 Cosmos mod for civ 4 had it pretty good as far as starting out goes.
Prehistoric time with no ability to make more villages for a long time. Neanderthals roaming about instead of normal barbarians, it could be an outstanding conversion mod.

If you ever wanted to do it UncivilizedGuy I certainly would be down to do such a total conversion mod. I can't stand how the game is right now, it makes no sense with what we know today about our history.

 

[Horem]

You can change the start date in the StartEras table. This however will lead to the calender been out of whack, which means you will have to rebalance the GameSpeed_Turns table.

 

[Cosmic Fox]

I've already begin mucking about with your speed mod Horem.

 

[Elucidus]

I am actually starting The Balancer between 10,000 and 12,000 BCE. Even then there is evidence bows and slings were used millennia before, among other things. But it is after the last ice age, when the climate shifted to favor agriculture that allowed mankind to settle that made the real difference, so that is where I start.

The focus early is on early techs and early development of man, which are more about discovery based on needs, than inventions themselves. there is an entire section that focuses on making better use of the terrain you started in, for example. This improves terrain and improvement yields.

It is a Work In Progress, and it takes a long time to find the right fit between keeping it in line with realism and keeping it fun. Most things happened at much different times like you said, and while I am trying to keep things at when they were first discovered, sometimes things play out better moved a little bit. Like moving sheep herding into animal husbandry, even though it wasn't really that and happened milenia before (or was that goat herding, I don't recall). I want to explain things people may not realize with the mod as well, using the civilopedia of course. Like slings were used over bows at one point ndue to range, which seems counterintuitive, but leaden bullets flew much further, until the composite bow was created, which gave it a better range, and the switch from there was permanent.

One challenge this has brought forward is that you can't just build a library to research things. My solution (which I could only implement in this last patch) is to add science to the terrains inversely based on their food yields. This follows along the lines of in the early years mankind learned through necessity, not through curiosity. Again helping out those who started in poorer areas like tundra or desert. This bonus will deplete as time goes on.

Plans also include to make religions interesting and more realistic.

I also want to have the tech tree more dynamic, some techs aren't that hard to get, but then again, they won't give as good of a reward.

I am reworking wonders so that some of them fall within their proper districts, while the ones that are their own district will cost more, be more unique and provide a much greater benefit.

I also plan to change the civics tree a bit and fill it out more, make governments much more interesting and distinct, and maybe if I can work it out, add some new slot types to policies.

There are also a lot of incremental bonuses I am adding, so a warrior from one nation may be armed with a club (which actually never happened, well maybe 400,000 years ago). Bt adding flint to your spear or arrows, for example will give your warrior greater strength.

That's all I can remember without coffee. Of course I am still in the very early stages, but that is a pretty good example of what to expect out of the Balancer.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

If you want to be "realistic" begin the game at 250,000 years ago this is when man began his trek as a human as we know it (look it up). The fact is this isn't real, it is a game we must keep this in mind.

I do agree though the ideal point to begin this type of game is either way back further or change the entire way the technology is being researched and what we already know. There needs to be more eras as well if you make the game begin further back.

Caveman 2 Cosmos mod for civ 4 had it pretty good as far as starting out goes.
Prehistoric time with no ability to make more villages for a long time. Neanderthals roaming about instead of normal barbarians, it could be an outstanding conversion mod.

If you ever wanted to do it UncivilizedGuy I certainly would be down to do such a total conversion mod. I can't stand how the game is right now, it makes no sense with what we know today about our history.

Civilization didn't start at 250,000 years ago, it wouldn't make it any more realistic. Civilization started with the invention of Agriculture when people became sedentary. Starting the game in precivilization would require the ability to research the tech tree without settling a city. There is no way to do this without altering the hard coding. The other option is to change the city center graphic to look more tribal and I was unsuccessful at this with Civ V. Not sure if it can be done with Civ 6.

You can change the start date in the StartEras table. This however will lead to the calender been out of whack, which means you will have to rebalance the GameSpeed_Turns table.

There is a simple formula for balancing game speed after changing the start date. I'll post it later if your interested.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

There are also a lot of incremental bonuses I am adding, so a warrior from one nation may be armed with a club (which actually never happened, well maybe 400,000 years ago). Bt adding flint to your spear or arrows, for example will give your warrior greater strength.

That's all I can remember without coffee. Of course I am still in the very early stages, but that is a pretty good example of what to expect out of the Balancer.

You bring up another good point that there is no archaeological evidence of warfare prior to about 15000 years ago. Human population was so small that there was no pressure to fight over resources. If the game were to be realistic all you would be doing is hunting animals and gathering resources with temporary improvements.

 

[Elucidus]

That is very true.

 

[Proclo]

You bring up another good point that there is no archaeological evidence of warfare prior to about 15000 years ago. Human population was so small that there was no pressure to fight over resources. If the game were to be realistic all you would be doing is hunting animals and gathering resources with temporary improvements.

I know the game is called CIVILIZATION, but I always wanted a first stage or pre-ancient era where you have to explore, collect and hunt to survive. No cities or settlement, just explore the surroundings getting techs/civics as you carry out actions like fighting hunger or natural threats.