Can submitted factions ever rebel against you?

[Wolf Dreamer]

If I share my all of my tech with a former enemy I beat into submitting to me, can they be trusted not to rebel against me?

If you defeat the Cyborgs then whenever they have a new tech, you have to contact them, then they hand it over right away. With the Data Angels, they actually call you up to hand over the latest tech they stole from someone else. That's my experience in the last two games I played anyway.

If at the end, they have a far larger military force and more votes at the council, and everyone else but them and me are wiped out, will they vote for me as Supreme Ruler, or themselves?

 

[Petek]

If I share my all of my tech with a former enemy I beat into submitting to me, can they be trusted not to rebel against me?

No. Another faction might commit an atrocity against them and frame you. If that happens, they will break the pact and declare vendetta. However, this is extremely rare.

Petek

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

The AI can blame you for something?

Since my ally/vassal has the hunter seeker secret project done at one of her bases, I assume she'd be safe against any probe teams actions.

Is there some other atrocity someone can do and blame on someone else?

 

[Petek]

The AI can blame you for something?

Yes. This happened to me once. A submissive Yang declared vendetta on me, mentioning the atrocities I committed against him.

Since my ally/vassal has the hunter seeker secret project done at one of her bases, I assume she'd be safe against any probe teams actions.

Yes, I think that's right. In SMAX, another faction could, in theory, build a Probe team with Algorithmic Enhancement, allowing it to defeat the HS SP. However, in practice, this never happens.

Is there some other atrocity someone can do and blame on someone else?

I can't think of any.

Petek

 

[Destructicon]

Vassals will also rebel and declare war against you if you nerve staple the citizens of a base that used to belong to them. I found this out the hard way while laying down the law, Hive style.

As to your endgame question, if the only factions that remain are you and your vassals, you win, regardless of powerful the vassals are compared to you.

Something else to consider with vassals is that they may well send probe teams against you to steal tech - it doesn't happen often, but I have seen it. You have the option of ignoring it or declaring vendetta on them for their treachery. Of course if you share all your tech with them, you wouldn't have to worry about that.

 

[GooglyBoogly]

Is there some other atrocity someone can do and blame on someone else?

The probe team operation in SMACX that applies a Genetic Plague (it has some prereq tech) is one atrocity that you can frame on other factions.

 

[Lochlann]

Sorry for exhuming this necropost, but I'm wondering about something that just happened in my latest playthrough.

After many scores of turns--maybe hundreds of turns--of submissively serving me following a total surrender, the Hive suddenly declared Vendetta and attacked me. There was no provocation whatsoever, and no message about a framed probe team action. Just, bam, declaration of Vendetta. (And no, I had not nerve-stapled any citizens in a former Hive base, as I never use nerve-stapling.)

What might have been the cause of this? Is it possible that another faction could have framed me for an atrocity without me being notified? (Every other time I have been framed in this way, a pop-up notice has informed me of the event.) Are there any other conditions, other than nerve-stapling, that can result in a vassal's rebellion? Something like the "grow larger than X% of the vassal's territory" condition found in Civ IV?

On a slightly different note: is there any "honorable" way to force a vassal to rebel against you? Something that won't tarnish your reputation? It seems that, if the power differential between you and the vassal is sufficiently large, no amount of demanding or threatening will provoke him/her. And simply calling off the Pact--never mind declaring Vendetta--results in a rep hit. The only thing I can think of is nerve-stapling a captured base during sunspot activity, but it'd be nice to go with something a little less...despicable.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Sorry for exhuming this necropost, but I'm wondering about something that just happened in my latest playthrough.

After many scores of turns--maybe hundreds of turns--of submissively serving me following a total surrender, the Hive suddenly declared Vendetta and attacked me. There was no provocation whatsoever, and no message about a framed probe team action. Just, bam, declaration of Vendetta. (And no, I had not nerve-stapled any citizens in a former Hive base, as I never use nerve-stapling.)

What might have been the cause of this? Is it possible that another faction could have framed me for an atrocity without me being notified? (Every other time I have been framed in this way, a pop-up notice has informed me of the event.) Are there any other conditions, other than nerve-stapling, that can result in a vassal's rebellion? Something like the "grow larger than X% of the vassal's territory" condition found in Civ IV?

You only get a message if the probe teams fails in their framing. Otherwise, you wouldn't know.

On a slightly different note: is there any "honorable" way to force a vassal to rebel against you? Something that won't tarnish your reputation? It seems that, if the power differential between you and the vassal is sufficiently large, no amount of demanding or threatening will provoke him/her. And simply calling off the Pact--never mind declaring Vendetta--results in a rep hit. The only thing I can think of is nerve-stapling a captured base during sunspot activity, but it'd be nice to go with something a little less...despicable.

Keep demanding things from them perhaps. Try to tick them off by doing that or changing your social engineering options to be something they are against.

You can eliminate their bases by moving your mind worm units near those not guarded properly, then release it into the wild. It will then attack the base next to the square it is on. You might have to do this with a few of them grouped together, to take out some bases. Once they have killed the military units there, they'll move in, and completely eliminate that base no matter how high the population is.

I just updated that information to my wikia.
http://sidmeiersalphacentauri.wikia.com/wiki/Atrocities#Obliterating_a_base

 

[Lochlann]

You only get a message if the probe teams fails in their framing. Otherwise, you wouldn't know.

Hmm...are you certain? I've definitely gotten pop-up messages notifying me that a probe team framejob was implemented, successfully, against me. The message immediately preceded a declaration of Vendetta by the faction against which I allegedly committed the atrocity. (Unless I'm completely misremembering things, but I don't think I am. This happened just two weeks ago.)

You can eliminate their bases by moving your mind worm units near those not guarded properly, then release it into the wild. It will then attack the base next to the square it is on. You might have to do this with a few of them grouped together, to take out some bases. Once they have killed the military units there, they'll move in, and completely eliminate that base no matter how high the population is.

Cool, I had forgotten about that trick, thanks! Though I suppose a probe-team TTC action followed by starving the base out would do the the job as well. (Though it wouldn't work for the headquarters base, of course.)

 

[Aquilai]

Re-exhuming this topic again (only 1 year)!

The probe team operation in SMACX that applies a Genetic Plague (it has some prereq tech) is one atrocity that you can frame on other factions.

Is the above quote correct? As a test (rarely commit atrocities), I'm playing a SMAX game and just got the Genetic Plague prerequisite, Retroviral Engineering. When I try to use Genetic Plague there's no option to frame anyone. Immediately after selecting "Introduce Genetic Plague (Atrocity)" I get a 10 year sanction. Is there another tech that I need before I can actually frame someone with it?

I'm playing with the unofficial patch as Datajack Roze but that shouldn't make any difference apart from her probe teams are better and the probe social effect should be patched to work.

 

[Petek]

I think you're right about not being able to frame other factions for gene warfare. I tested it in the scenario editor and couldn't find a way to do it (frame). GooglyBoogly was usually thorough about such matters, so I wonder why he thought you could frame in that situation.

 

[Weird T Figure]

If you nuke someone they will all rebel against you, actually.