denyd
Emperor
so I can wipe the taste of COTM 3 out of my mouth...please 
Can we start talking about GOTM 34
- Thread starter denyd
- Start date
Akane
Gaining the Upper Hand
Heh, ditto. 
chunkymonkey
Procrastinator
I'm probably going to play GOTM34 since I had such a shockingly quick defeat with COTM3. 
I haven't played a PTW game for some time? What are the key differences I need to remember just to function as a capable player - obviously corruption works a whole lot differently, and there are some unit stat changes, but any other changed mechanics anyone would care to mention?
I haven't played a PTW game for some time? What are the key differences I need to remember just to function as a capable player - obviously corruption works a whole lot differently, and there are some unit stat changes, but any other changed mechanics anyone would care to mention?
denyd
Emperor
The primary things that come to mind are:
The good:
1. Corruption is much lighter
2. Forbidden Palace is more powerful
3. Resources are more plentiful
4. Minimum research is set to 40 turns
5. Palace jumps can be profitable
6. Upgrade costs are much lower
7. Industrious Workers more powerful
8. Great Leaders can rush all wonders
The bad:
1. No Temple of Artemis, Statue of Zeus & Mauseleum (no crusaders / ancient cavalry)
2. No TOW infantry
3. Radio is a required tech
4. Trading of contacts & maps happens much sooner (this has beem modded in the past to resemble C3C)
5. Ironclads more common (not on a required tech in C3C)
6. Armies are much weaker
7. No Science Great Leaders
The Ugly:
1. Submarines can start wars by accident
2. Barbarians don't function correctly
3. SGL used for Golden Age of Science doesn't work
If I think of others I'll be sure to edit this post.
BTW: Somehow looking at these lists I get the feeling that C3C was a step backward. The bad items in general could have been added to PTW with the editor and the Ugly stuff wouldn't be an issue.
The good:
1. Corruption is much lighter
2. Forbidden Palace is more powerful
3. Resources are more plentiful
4. Minimum research is set to 40 turns
5. Palace jumps can be profitable
6. Upgrade costs are much lower
7. Industrious Workers more powerful
8. Great Leaders can rush all wonders
The bad:
1. No Temple of Artemis, Statue of Zeus & Mauseleum (no crusaders / ancient cavalry)
2. No TOW infantry
3. Radio is a required tech
4. Trading of contacts & maps happens much sooner (this has beem modded in the past to resemble C3C)
5. Ironclads more common (not on a required tech in C3C)
6. Armies are much weaker
7. No Science Great Leaders
The Ugly:
1. Submarines can start wars by accident
2. Barbarians don't function correctly
3. SGL used for Golden Age of Science doesn't work
If I think of others I'll be sure to edit this post.
BTW: Somehow looking at these lists I get the feeling that C3C was a step backward. The bad items in general could have been added to PTW with the editor and the Ugly stuff wouldn't be an issue.
chunkymonkey
Procrastinator
ooh cheers denyd quick and comprehensive, i like it.
I agree about the step backward. But I definitely prefer the C3C civs and the additional traits.
Thanks again.
I agree about the step backward. But I definitely prefer the C3C civs and the additional traits.
Thanks again.
solenoozerec
Stranger
Well, I sill want to finish and submit COTM3, though the outcome is obvious. I already lost more than 15 cities and I am not sure that I will survive even for 10 turns. AA was soooo much better than MA :-{ May be I'll get an award for the lowest score? So many people give up, I have chances to be the worst among submitters.
So I also didn't plan to play GOTM34, but now I want to.
My first question is when Ainwood will publish a minimap? Any thoughts?
So I also didn't plan to play GOTM34, but now I want to.
My first question is when Ainwood will publish a minimap? Any thoughts?
Akane
Gaining the Upper Hand
solenoozerec said:
I finished out my game too. And it's really nothing to trumpet about. My spearmen are becoming victim to India's cavalry and infantry. I bet I finish rather close to you.
Only one simple little mistake....
I was wondering if someone would come to that conclusion. Commies asside, is it really a better game?denyd said:
I might have been tempted to get Conquest today, but it wasn't even on the shelf at the local electro-laybrinth. They still had vanilla, PTW and Gold in stock.
It doesn't pay to remind you, but RCP is a biggie.
Maybe we'll get some teasers early this week. Probably not the game until next week.
denyd
Emperor
Tarkeel: I agree with you for very large empires that the communism changes and the social specialists reduce corruption to an acceptable level, but I miss the democracy worker kicker & commerce bonus. Also with RCP and palace jumps to new lands if the FP was local, you greatly surpass the producivity & research numbers of C3C. In general all cities beyond the OCN are worthless and while C3C does allow the high food cities to gain production, their improvement is nowhere near what you can get from multiple palace jumps, each developing a new core.
Edit: Alamo, be sure to check out Civ Complete, it's the newest verison on the shelf. It's a wonderful way for them to sucker us into buying something with no added value. They've just packaged CIV III & C3C (with PTW) together and are pushing it. I'd be happy to pay the $39.95 if they corrected the glaring problems with C3C, but to just burn new CD's of the old code (I'm not even sure it's patched to 1.22), and put it out there as the latest and greatest is bordering on fraud in my dictionary. (end of rant, sorry to anyone I may have offended)
Edit: Alamo, be sure to check out Civ Complete, it's the newest verison on the shelf. It's a wonderful way for them to sucker us into buying something with no added value. They've just packaged CIV III & C3C (with PTW) together and are pushing it. I'd be happy to pay the $39.95 if they corrected the glaring problems with C3C, but to just burn new CD's of the old code (I'm not even sure it's patched to 1.22), and put it out there as the latest and greatest is bordering on fraud in my dictionary. (end of rant, sorry to anyone I may have offended)
bradleyfeanor
King
alamo said:
I don't regret buying Conquests, because it has been fun playing with the new traits, civs, wonders and superarmies. I really like how they have changed the powers of Military Leaders, but since the AI doesn't build armies, they kind of unbalance the game. And I don't like the Scientific Leaders at all.
If I could only pick one version to play, I would choose PTW. I have found--to my surprise--that I now miss RCP and the PTW Forbidden Palace. They both required a good deal of thought, and added extra challenges to the game. Conquests is fun, but in many ways it plays like an "unfinished" game.
denyd
Emperor
BradleyFeanor: I agree completly with you conclusions. I enjoy playing what they delivered, it just needs that one more patch to finish things up and make me put away PTW for a while (similar to what happened to my Civ III CD once they got PTW patched)
As for Mursilis, he got lucky and overslept the morning of the launch (forgot to reset his watch on daylight savings weekend) and his seat was given to an unlucky replacement, Theodora.
As for Mursilis, he got lucky and overslept the morning of the launch (forgot to reset his watch on daylight savings weekend) and his seat was given to an unlucky replacement, Theodora.
RowAndLive
RAMMING SPEED!
denyd said:
Please remember that the purpose of publishing a new version of Civ is not to make a better game, nor to address problems, nor to make improvements that we have recommended. The purpose is to make as much money as possible. Sid himself may have some personal stake in trying to improve the game, but like most of us he needs money to pay the bills. If they collectively make more money, then they collectively get to retire earlier.
solenoozerec
Stranger
Akane said:Only one simple little mistake....
What was your mistake?
My majour mistake was:
I started to trust Indians. It made me irresponsible about my defense. It resulted in a blitzkrieg. Then I was trying to survive on other islands. But it is coming to the end now.
solenoozerec
Stranger
It may be just my eyes, but I think in both games that I played so far (COTM2 and COTM3), there was an issue with colors of civilization. In COTM2 Netherlands looked like Egypt, in COTM3 Byzantines looked like Carthaginians. In COTM2, I even confused one Egyptian ship with my own.
Is it possible to avoid this? In spoilers, it also difficult to see who is who in mimnimaps.
Is it possible to avoid this? In spoilers, it also difficult to see who is who in mimnimaps.
Demiurge
Warlord
I think Ainwood does that to spur us on in the pre-game discussions. By changing the colors he can dangle that little bit of information in front of us for longer.
eldar
ChiefTank
I've still not got to 1000BC in COTM03. I'm annoyed I missed the best first city location (crumbs, crumbs....) despite having had great fun tech trading so far.
The main reason I don't like C3C is quite simple: random games are boring because you know who four or five of your opponents are always going to be! See light blue borders? Oh, that'll be America then. Hiawatha, Smoke-Jaguar, Monty, and the Incan chappy won't be too far over the horizon. I suppose I could use dice....
Neil.
The main reason I don't like C3C is quite simple: random games are boring because you know who four or five of your opponents are always going to be! See light blue borders? Oh, that'll be America then. Hiawatha, Smoke-Jaguar, Monty, and the Incan chappy won't be too far over the horizon. I suppose I could use dice....
Neil.
Thanks for the warning. I hate it when the suits take over product pushing instead of letting the developers finish the job.denyd said:
You would think they would do some serious beta testing by the time the 4th incarnation comes around. They could recruit at least 100 people in no time.
@RowAndLive : Game companies would make MUCH more money by getting a good reputation and having comsumers trust their product. Who wouldn't buy a product from Blizzard if it struck your fancy?
samildanach
Necrophile
alamo said:
Hopefully firaxis are taking a leaf out of Bethesdas book. They according to the official site put together a massive development team for Morrowind while still milking their old game engine and format with titles such as Redguard which cashed in on their original elderscrolls block buster.
In order to maintain the civ franchise Firaxis will have to pull the rabbit out of the hat as Bethesda did but they are not going to be able to do that if they don't invest significant resources into Civ4.
I don't think beta testers are the issue. Conquests had lots of testers - some of them excellent players but it was still extremely clunky when it was released. I would sooner see them expand their development team and just recruit a small elite group of playtesters. Hopefully,this would allow Firaxis to respond intelligently to any issues that might arise rather than implementing cludges.
Firaxis has clearly hacked off a large minorty of the strategy gaming community with their less than perfect expansions. As yet, the gaming media still seems to like Firaxis but this will change if their next flagship project is less then wonderful. Expansions don't really count for much if they are expanding on what was an originally very successful title - the gaming media can afford to be charitable. Which they were with both PTW and conquests. But their credibility is on the line if they say Civ4 is great when in fact it turns out to be a bug infested rehash.
Hopefully, Firaxis isn't deluded by the over generous reviews of their expansions and realises it needs to do something special or the knives will be out and civ4 will be left to rot on the shelves.
