Can you vassal someone with a vassal?

[DABegley]

I am in the process of eviscerating Gilgamesh on Monarch. He has Pericles as a vassal and even though Pericles has met the requirements to break away he hasn't. Gil had 12 cities when the war started, I have taken four and burned a fifth. I had 9 cities when it started so he has 7 now to my 13 (I have taken his 1st and 3rd largest cities). He still has a score advantage over me, he started at 2800 and I was 1700. He is now 2200 and I am 2100 and I have his largest remaining city lined up to fall in about 3 turns. At some point soon he should go for a vassal status but can he do so if Pericles is still his vassal?

The war went my way because even though he was larger than me and a much higher score, partially due to vassaling Pericles, I was well ahead on tech and got to Riflemen and cannons while he was at Macemen and trebs. Nuff said.

 

[Gary King]

I asked a similar question: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=346600

 

[conception]

As far as I have seen, you have to really decimate one or the other so that they will break up. The AI can't capitulate while it still has a vassal of its own.

 

[Tatran]

The AI can't capitulate while it still has a vassal of its own.

Absolute nonsense.

 

[WuphonsReach]

The AI can and will capitulate even if it still has vassals. You just need to beat the parent AI down far enough that it's below 50% of your pop/land before it will capitulate. (I think... I keep the pressure up until they capitulate, taking another city every few turns, usually it works out that they're about 50% of my size after capitulating.) If you're lucky and powerful enough, you can pickup not only the parent civ as a vassal but also their old vassals in one fell swoop.

When the parent capitulates, all of the old vassals break free, but remain at war with you. A lot of times, those old vassals are immediately willing to capitulate as well. So start a diplomatic conversation with the old vassals as soon as the parent gives up.

 

[Chiyochan]

The AI can and will capitulate even if it still has vassals. You just need to beat the parent AI down far enough that it's below 50% of your pop/land before it will capitulate. (I think... I keep the pressure up until they capitulate, taking another city every few turns, usually it works out that they're about 50% of my size after capitulating.) If you're lucky and powerful enough, you can pickup not only the parent civ as a vassal but also their old vassals in one fell swoop.

When the parent capitulates, all of the old vassals break free, but remain at war with you. A lot of times, those old vassals are immediately willing to capitulate as well. So start a diplomatic conversation with the old vassals as soon as the parent gives up.

sometimes i find the smaller vassals remain vassals of my new vassal.

 

[davelisowski]

why bother with vassals when you can just take the whole civ?

just finish what you started. or make peace and keep building units and attack as soon as you can.

 

[Gary King]

why bother with vassals when you can just take the whole civ?

just finish what you started. or make peace and keep building units and attack as soon as you can.

Personally, the most common reason that I vassal is because the target civ has some cities sprinkled around an archipelago, and I either don't have Transports or don't want to bother.

 

[conception]

why bother with vassals when you can just take the whole civ?

just finish what you started. or make peace and keep building units and attack as soon as you can.

Sometimes its just too much time and effort when your armies could be replenishing to attack someone else. It's also nice to vassalize a powerful enemy and have their armies show up to cause some havoc.

 

[WuphonsReach]

- Isolated cities on islands that aren't worth taking

- The same goes for AI cities in poor terrain, they're not worth holding unless they raise the specter of later revolts and culture flips

- There's bigger and fatter game to be had. My first few conquests are typically stepping stones to bigger conquests down the road. So my goal is to maximize my gains, minimize my losses, and do it quickly.

- And I can always cause them to revolt later by making multiple unreasonable demands

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

You sure can vassal a master. You don't even have to beat him/her real bad, just enough to achieve to minimum war success. For example, I took only one of Bismarck's cities and he was already willing to cap:



Of course, another vassal of mine had more than 8 land tiles, which made him a land target and I had a somewhat decent stack in his territory.

Spoiler :

I also had 60 Jet-Fighters in a coastal city. I love overkill.

The save is attached in case you want to see it.

 

[Nares]

I am in the process of eviscerating Gilgamesh on Monarch. He has Pericles as a vassal and even though Pericles has met the requirements to break away he hasn't.

Are you sure? The interface is somewhat misleading. There's also the issue of friendly vassal vs. conquered vassal. I believe friendly vassals are less likely to drop when their master is attacked.

And then there's the issue of "we fear your rivals blah, blah, blah." You'll want to broker peace with the AI they're "afraid" of, or possibly even every other AI you're at war with.

Be sure to check carefully every turn. The AI is prone to one-turn windows of opportunity; in the case of vassals, sometimes an AI will de-vassal for one turn, only to re-vassal the next.

Likewise, sometimes an AI will shift or drop its worst enemy for a single turn, allowing for tech trades with AIs you otherwise wouldn't associate with.

I'm sure someone else can go into more detail on one or all of these issues.