"Artistic" Corporation --> Founded by Great Artist as "Comedy & Drama company of the XXX men"
I don't know if I want that kind of corporation.
CanWill they add or re-work corporations into ciV?
- Thread starter fat_tonle
- Start date
I don't know if I want that kind of corporation.
Atwork
Immortal
I liked corporations in C4. If for no other reason than it gave me something to do in the end game--once I was dominant and just waiting for a space victory.
When I dropped Sid Sushi I'd often be impressed with the jump in food in each city. When I dropped Mining Corp I was always pleased at the boost in production. Plus, liked the sound of the 'cha-ching' as my gold per turn grew in chunks.
Plus, wanting to grab resources gave me a reason to explore the map....build marines and go around island hopping.....and to take advantage of wars across the globe that I had no business being involved with--simply because I wanted to gobble more resources.....thus, corps played a significant role in my foreign policy some games.
Also, I liked the way a few corps could really jump start a new city in the late game. Place a city out in the boondocks just for an airbase or military outpost city......drop a couple corps and watch the city become quickly relevant.
Plus, there were a few games where the corp really gave me a chance to win a game that otherwise I would have had no chance in. Similarly, I can remember games where a rather minor player would found a corp or two and suddenly be in the thick of it.
I liked corps for those reasons. But, I always wished for a more sophisticated design.
I do think that a good system for corporations could be fashioned using elements of the new religion and espionage systems, sort of hybrid between the two.
Basically, you found a corporation with a great merchant--and you groom and cultivate it, similar to a religion.....maybe the corporation focuses on research, giving boost to science.....maybe the corporation focuses on entertainment, giving happiness.....maybe the corporation focuses on manufacturing, giving production bonuses....etc.
Control over the corporation is exercised similar to how espionage will be controlled, i.e. through a screen. Opening the corporation screen will be like entering the Board room. You will also find the corporation tree, which will be similar to SPs. Bascially, you will cultivate your corporation by Board actions, which will be like choosing a new SP.
Similar to the espionage system, every so often the player will get a corporate franchiser--this franchiser will allow you to spread your corporation to foreign lands by building a foreign branch in the foreign land. Somehow, this will matter. Possibly, you will invest gold in the foreign economy through the foreign branch, and in return, you will receive added bonuses from your corp. Gotta think this over later.
New corporate SPs will be unlocked as certain thresholds of gold investment are reached. For example, the first corporate SP can be chosen after 150 gold is invested in the corporation. Essentially, this simulates money being diverted from the public coffers toward private capital accumulation.
First Level corporate SP allows the player to choose the corporate purpose, e.g. manufacturing, research, entertainment, retail, or food. Potentially, each player could have one corporation in each area of specialty. However, Player 1's manufacturing corp will compete with Player 2's manufacturing corp. The element of competition between corps of the same specialty could be really interesting. I think I'll have to think this through some.
Anyways, this is stream of consciousness. Maybe I'll think more about this later. But, I think this is long enough--and I'm off to bed!
When I dropped Sid Sushi I'd often be impressed with the jump in food in each city. When I dropped Mining Corp I was always pleased at the boost in production. Plus, liked the sound of the 'cha-ching' as my gold per turn grew in chunks.
Plus, wanting to grab resources gave me a reason to explore the map....build marines and go around island hopping.....and to take advantage of wars across the globe that I had no business being involved with--simply because I wanted to gobble more resources.....thus, corps played a significant role in my foreign policy some games.
Also, I liked the way a few corps could really jump start a new city in the late game. Place a city out in the boondocks just for an airbase or military outpost city......drop a couple corps and watch the city become quickly relevant.
Plus, there were a few games where the corp really gave me a chance to win a game that otherwise I would have had no chance in. Similarly, I can remember games where a rather minor player would found a corp or two and suddenly be in the thick of it.
I liked corps for those reasons. But, I always wished for a more sophisticated design.
I do think that a good system for corporations could be fashioned using elements of the new religion and espionage systems, sort of hybrid between the two.
Basically, you found a corporation with a great merchant--and you groom and cultivate it, similar to a religion.....maybe the corporation focuses on research, giving boost to science.....maybe the corporation focuses on entertainment, giving happiness.....maybe the corporation focuses on manufacturing, giving production bonuses....etc.
Control over the corporation is exercised similar to how espionage will be controlled, i.e. through a screen. Opening the corporation screen will be like entering the Board room. You will also find the corporation tree, which will be similar to SPs. Bascially, you will cultivate your corporation by Board actions, which will be like choosing a new SP.
Similar to the espionage system, every so often the player will get a corporate franchiser--this franchiser will allow you to spread your corporation to foreign lands by building a foreign branch in the foreign land. Somehow, this will matter. Possibly, you will invest gold in the foreign economy through the foreign branch, and in return, you will receive added bonuses from your corp. Gotta think this over later.
New corporate SPs will be unlocked as certain thresholds of gold investment are reached. For example, the first corporate SP can be chosen after 150 gold is invested in the corporation. Essentially, this simulates money being diverted from the public coffers toward private capital accumulation.
First Level corporate SP allows the player to choose the corporate purpose, e.g. manufacturing, research, entertainment, retail, or food. Potentially, each player could have one corporation in each area of specialty. However, Player 1's manufacturing corp will compete with Player 2's manufacturing corp. The element of competition between corps of the same specialty could be really interesting. I think I'll have to think this through some.
Anyways, this is stream of consciousness. Maybe I'll think more about this later. But, I think this is long enough--and I'm off to bed!
headcase
Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn
For now it'd be enough if corporations were implemented as late-game wonders that took up strat resources, or, going further, permanently took up one or two units of a lux (with a few more luxes appearing on distant islands to compensate perhaps).
Overall it would great if the 2nd expansion could find a more involved way to bring in corporations without micro-management or bad AI. But at least the wonder system above would be a nod to the existence of corporations. The SP thing two posts above is nice
Overall it would great if the 2nd expansion could find a more involved way to bring in corporations without micro-management or bad AI. But at least the wonder system above would be a nod to the existence of corporations. The SP thing two posts above is nice
Autocracy might be able to increase basic resources somehow.
I really like your idea, care to work it out in a thread in ideas and suggestions to discuss it further?
Atwork
Immortal
Corporations in C5 could be fashioned using elements of the new religion and espionage systems, a sort of hybrid between the two--and even possibly some elements of the city-state design.
Basically, you found a corporation with a great merchant. The player would simply move the merchant into any city and select “Found Corporation.” Once selected, the merchant disappears and the Corporate Headquarters is built inside the city. From that point on, this city hosts the corp and the headquarters serves as the “nerve center” of the corporation.
Upon founding a corporation, the player chooses its corporate purpose, e.g. manufacturing, research, entertainment, retail, or food. Potentially, each player could have one corporation in each area of specialty. If Civ A and Civ B both found a manufacturing corp, there will be competition.
After choosing the corporate purpose, the player will have the ability to groom and cultivate it, similar to how religions are specialized. Where religions accentuate land features; corporations provide bonuses, depending on its purpose, based on resources and/or infrastructure related to the corporate purpose.
As to bonuses based on infrastructure: Manufacturing corps will give bonuses based on forges, workshops, factories, seaports, etc. Research corporations will provide research bonuses based on libraries, universities, public schools, research labs etc. Entertainment corporations will give bonuses based on infrastructure such as theaters, stadiums, broadcast towers, etc. Retail corporations will give bonuses based on markets, trade posts, malls, etc. Food corporations will give bonuses based on markets, grocers, and other buildings I can’t think of (or that don’t yet exist).
As to bonuses based on resources, Manufacturing corps will benefit from iron, coal, oil, etc. Research corps will not depend so much on resources—same with Entertainment corps. Retail corps will benefit from luxury goods. Food corps will primarily benefit from resources—all the food stuffs in addition to certain luxuries such as wine.
So, let’s assume the player has founded a corporation whose purpose will be manufacturing (Manufacturing Corp.) The player can then groom the corporation through unlocking “Corporate Policies,” a system similar to unlocking Social Policies (which is similar to grooming religions). Each different type of corporation will have a unique tree—the corporation can be groomed to give different benefits depending on how the tree is navigated.
For example, the Corporate Policy (CP) tree for an Entertainment corp can be groomed to give significant bonuses toward happiness or culture, or a combination of both. Retail corporations could be groomed to boost income, happiness, or culture, or a combination. Manufacturing could be tailored to give general production bonuses, space-ship production, or focused on military production. Food corporation would focus on food bonuses, but could be tailored to give additional income boosts or boosts to happiness. Etc. Etc.
Corporate Policies (CPs) would be unlocked based on certain technologies or by spending gold. Spending gold to unlock CPs reflects diverting money away from public coffers and toward private capital investment/accumulation.
For example, after founding a Manufacturing Corporation, the player can unlock a CP by investing 1,000 gold. The player will have a choice of CPs—perhaps he chooses an additional +2 production for all factories; or perhaps to help with naval production, the player selects +10% production of all naval units in cities with a seaport. The next CP may cost 1,500…..the next 2,000…..the next 2,500…..the next 3,000, etc.
Somehow, the system will create a thirst for acquisition of additional resources--thus creating an element of competition. Perhaps acquiring additional resources will reduce the cost of obtaining CPs—thus increasing the cost of CPs to other players’ corporations of the same specialty.
CPs will have cross-over effects with SPs. For example, if the player has already adopted the SP of “Trade Unionism,” then the CP of “Collective Bargaining Process” will become available—selecting it will give +1 happiness per factory. (Just an example of how this could work).
I have more ideas about Corporate Governance—exercised by entering the “Board Room” (just a screen like the espionage screen). Also, ideas about opening a Foreign Branch of the corporation, and how this might play out. I also think that there could be a mechanic for control of the Board—maybe similar to the fight for influence over city-states. Possibly, if player A expands his corp into the lands of player B, then player B now can attempt a hostile takeover of the Board---in which case player B now has primary benefit from the corp…..similar to going from allied to friendly with a city-state....dunno….need to come back to these ideas later.
Basically, you found a corporation with a great merchant. The player would simply move the merchant into any city and select “Found Corporation.” Once selected, the merchant disappears and the Corporate Headquarters is built inside the city. From that point on, this city hosts the corp and the headquarters serves as the “nerve center” of the corporation.
Upon founding a corporation, the player chooses its corporate purpose, e.g. manufacturing, research, entertainment, retail, or food. Potentially, each player could have one corporation in each area of specialty. If Civ A and Civ B both found a manufacturing corp, there will be competition.
After choosing the corporate purpose, the player will have the ability to groom and cultivate it, similar to how religions are specialized. Where religions accentuate land features; corporations provide bonuses, depending on its purpose, based on resources and/or infrastructure related to the corporate purpose.
As to bonuses based on infrastructure: Manufacturing corps will give bonuses based on forges, workshops, factories, seaports, etc. Research corporations will provide research bonuses based on libraries, universities, public schools, research labs etc. Entertainment corporations will give bonuses based on infrastructure such as theaters, stadiums, broadcast towers, etc. Retail corporations will give bonuses based on markets, trade posts, malls, etc. Food corporations will give bonuses based on markets, grocers, and other buildings I can’t think of (or that don’t yet exist).
As to bonuses based on resources, Manufacturing corps will benefit from iron, coal, oil, etc. Research corps will not depend so much on resources—same with Entertainment corps. Retail corps will benefit from luxury goods. Food corps will primarily benefit from resources—all the food stuffs in addition to certain luxuries such as wine.
So, let’s assume the player has founded a corporation whose purpose will be manufacturing (Manufacturing Corp.) The player can then groom the corporation through unlocking “Corporate Policies,” a system similar to unlocking Social Policies (which is similar to grooming religions). Each different type of corporation will have a unique tree—the corporation can be groomed to give different benefits depending on how the tree is navigated.
For example, the Corporate Policy (CP) tree for an Entertainment corp can be groomed to give significant bonuses toward happiness or culture, or a combination of both. Retail corporations could be groomed to boost income, happiness, or culture, or a combination. Manufacturing could be tailored to give general production bonuses, space-ship production, or focused on military production. Food corporation would focus on food bonuses, but could be tailored to give additional income boosts or boosts to happiness. Etc. Etc.
Corporate Policies (CPs) would be unlocked based on certain technologies or by spending gold. Spending gold to unlock CPs reflects diverting money away from public coffers and toward private capital investment/accumulation.
For example, after founding a Manufacturing Corporation, the player can unlock a CP by investing 1,000 gold. The player will have a choice of CPs—perhaps he chooses an additional +2 production for all factories; or perhaps to help with naval production, the player selects +10% production of all naval units in cities with a seaport. The next CP may cost 1,500…..the next 2,000…..the next 2,500…..the next 3,000, etc.
Somehow, the system will create a thirst for acquisition of additional resources--thus creating an element of competition. Perhaps acquiring additional resources will reduce the cost of obtaining CPs—thus increasing the cost of CPs to other players’ corporations of the same specialty.
CPs will have cross-over effects with SPs. For example, if the player has already adopted the SP of “Trade Unionism,” then the CP of “Collective Bargaining Process” will become available—selecting it will give +1 happiness per factory. (Just an example of how this could work).
I have more ideas about Corporate Governance—exercised by entering the “Board Room” (just a screen like the espionage screen). Also, ideas about opening a Foreign Branch of the corporation, and how this might play out. I also think that there could be a mechanic for control of the Board—maybe similar to the fight for influence over city-states. Possibly, if player A expands his corp into the lands of player B, then player B now can attempt a hostile takeover of the Board---in which case player B now has primary benefit from the corp…..similar to going from allied to friendly with a city-state....dunno….need to come back to these ideas later.
Honestly, I don't see why. Just because something was in IV is no reason that it has to be a necessary component of civ games going forward. I'd much rather see them try to develop something new than just try to rehash something from IV. Religion I understand because it's obviously a huge part of world history that has shaped much of civilization since before history began. But corporations-- would that /really/ be a necessary component of a game called Civilization? I'd rather them try something new.
Atwork
Immortal
Corporations have been a huge part of world history for many hundreds of years now.
Modernly, there is practically nothing that does not have a corporate symbol attached to it. I mean seriously, a corporation stands behind practically everything.
At this time in human history, there is probably nothing as influential on human events as are corporations.
Is there a place for corporations in the game of civilization? What would modern civilization be without the corporation?
Modernly, there is practically nothing that does not have a corporate symbol attached to it. I mean seriously, a corporation stands behind practically everything.
At this time in human history, there is probably nothing as influential on human events as are corporations.
Is there a place for corporations in the game of civilization? What would modern civilization be without the corporation?
Well,the main problems with inserting Corporations into Civ 5 now are:
- The Concept of "International trade" should be applied before adding Corporations. Still,the influence of Corporations would only be relevant on the mid-late Industrial era;
- The Industrial/Modern era tech tree branches are too short to represent the huge diversity of corporations;
- The appearance of most of Corporations doesn't depend on the will of the government,which can only regulate the conditions and the enviroment where they appear(the exception here is for the state-owned companies),so avoid randomness here is hard,even with the idea of using GP to found a Corporation;
- Currently,the advantages of being friendly with other civilizations on renaissance and latter eras doesn't get improved(actually,you got even more reasons to be hostile) . Reverting this paradigm is the greatest challenge to make Corporations really interesting and not just a way to get enemies;
I guess that the devs would have to release the dll of Civ 5 before adding Corporations,so the modders can solve these problems for them
- The Concept of "International trade" should be applied before adding Corporations. Still,the influence of Corporations would only be relevant on the mid-late Industrial era;
- The Industrial/Modern era tech tree branches are too short to represent the huge diversity of corporations;
- The appearance of most of Corporations doesn't depend on the will of the government,which can only regulate the conditions and the enviroment where they appear(the exception here is for the state-owned companies),so avoid randomness here is hard,even with the idea of using GP to found a Corporation;
- Currently,the advantages of being friendly with other civilizations on renaissance and latter eras doesn't get improved(actually,you got even more reasons to be hostile) . Reverting this paradigm is the greatest challenge to make Corporations really interesting and not just a way to get enemies;
I guess that the devs would have to release the dll of Civ 5 before adding Corporations,so the modders can solve these problems for them
Atwork
Immortal
Actually, if the system of corporations were treated similarly to religions---where they are founded and slowly groomed and grown, as I suggested a few posts above, then corporations could become relevant much earlier in the game. Which is historically accurate. For example, Columbus's voyage to the new world was the result of a chartered joint-venture, backed by many big investors, the predecessor of the modern corporation. Certainly we all know about the British East India Company, a joint-stock company, which was granted royal charter in the 1600s and was dominant by the early 1700s.
That is not technically true--corporations are creatures of the state. All corporations must file the articles of incorporation with the state (strict rules apply), must follow a lawful corporate purpose, must abide by law governed corporate procedures, and must pay fees and taxes to the state. Corporations are accountable to the state, can be pierced by the state, and can be dissolved by the state. Also, laws apply to the constituents of a corporation and govern their activities.
I suggest reading some of the ideas above--there's plenty of interesting ideas out there, I'm sure with many more to come. The way to avoid making them cause only enemies is to create a mechanism where the benefit of incorporation can be obtained by the foreigners who allow the corporation to do business in its nation.
For example, If civ A founds corporation Z and civ B has not founded a corporation of the same type of Z, then B could agree to host coporation Z. At that point, A would get the benefit of increased business revenue, while B would get the benefit provided by the corporation.
Also, there could be an extra dimension of a competition between A and B for control of the corporation--this would require some mechanism for the buying and purchasing of shares......essentially a player could buy contol of the board......dunno how all that would work, just a thought.
Atwork
Immortal
IMO, if it added to the element of competition for resources, then this would add an interesting element to the game--especially as the end of the game drew nearer. Regardless of the victory type you might be aiming for, an underlying competition for resources would give the player something else to do in the form of an added level of strategy to the game.
Strategically, competition for resources touches on aspects of foreign policy, military involvement, economics, and use of resources. So, a competition for resources coupled with spreading and shaping your corporation(s) would touch on many other aspects of the game--thus keeping the player involved, even while his winning strategy involves just clicking turns.
Regarding a system of corporation's influence on economics, a system of corporations should help a player improve and plan his/her economy. Regarding the use of resources, the system should give added benefits to a player depending on the resources obtained and how those resources are put to use by the corporation.
Ultimately though, when we talk about the 'interestingness' of a adding corporations, what we're primarily talking about is the adequecy of the reward system.
If the player feels rewarded in his gameplay through the system, then the player will buy into the system--if the system provides the right balance of frequency and amount of reward combined with a challenge, then the player is likely to have a positive feeling toward the system. And--if it believably models elements of business and commerce in the real world, then a Civ player is likely to embrace the system.
Id like to see corporations used...but id like to see some noticable advantage for setting them up and using them....
Customise them like religion to gain certain benefits...
Use them to influence other civs and their working....
Substantial... financial / tecnical rewards based on industry / influence & wealth...
Corporate takeovers.... Another civs industry booming.... ill have that....
Global expansion of corporations.... want to dominate the world with majorpoop industries... what would the effects be of going to war......
Customise them like religion to gain certain benefits...
Use them to influence other civs and their working....
Substantial... financial / tecnical rewards based on industry / influence & wealth...
Corporate takeovers.... Another civs industry booming.... ill have that....
Global expansion of corporations.... want to dominate the world with majorpoop industries... what would the effects be of going to war......
