Caravans

[aluelkdf]

I played BNW for about an hour last night just to see what it looks like and to explore the new features.

I am confused about how caravans work. I thought caravans could come under attack from enemy units. My caravan was returning to my capitol after trading with a city state. Aztec declared war on me and their unit occupied the same tile as my caravan. But my caravan was completely unaffected, and the next turn continued to travel to my capitol. I thought caravans could come under attack from enemy units, but this did not happen.

Also, can city states build caravans or only major civs?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The Trade route can be attacked, not just the actual unit.

The enemy has to spend an action to do so.

 

[EEE_BOY]

under what circumstances can a caravan or a cargo ship be destroyed? I am a bit confused.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

under what circumstances can a caravan or a cargo ship be destroyed? I am a bit confused.

When the Trade route is plundered (anywhere along the route) the associated unit is lost.

 

[EEE_BOY]

When the Trade route is plundered (anywhere along the route) the associated unit is lost.

Oh, that's quite annoying to spend hammer again to remake the trade units. Not to mention the troops that had to escort the whole trade line.

 

[Bisqit]

The unit isn't actually a part of the trade route. The unit is simply a visual representation of the trade route. You have to protect your trade route adequately.

 

[dshirk]

To plunder a trade unit, you cannot plunder the route, you must either place a military unit on top of the trade unit and select "Plunder" while at war, or have a trade unit physically travel through your military unit (or a barbarian, etc.) while at war. For example, you park a swordsman on a hostile trade route, knowing that a Caravan will eventually come to you. When it eventually does, it will be plundered.

 

[azhskr]

To plunder a trade unit, you cannot plunder the route, you must either place a military unit on top of the trade unit and select "Plunder" while at war, or have a trade unit physically travel through your military unit (or a barbarian, etc.) while at war. For example, you park a swordsman on a hostile trade route, knowing that a Caravan will eventually come to you. When it eventually does, it will be plundered.

Thanks for the explanation. Appreciate your work on the forums since release!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

To plunder a trade unit, you cannot plunder the route, you must either place a military unit on top of the trade unit and select "Plunder" while at war, or have a trade unit physically travel through your military unit (or a barbarian, etc.) while at war. For example, you park a swordsman on a hostile trade route, knowing that a Caravan will eventually come to you. When it eventually does, it will be plundered.

Ah. I am enlightened.

 

[aluelkdf]

So I lose my gold (and everything else), and the enemy civ takes it?

I feel like there should be a graphical representation of the unit coming under attack. In real life the enemy would not just loot the caravan and let the people go. The people who were involved with the caravan would likely be killed or enslaved. So I think the caravan unit should be killed, or it should be turned into a worker and captured by the other civ.

Caravans usually travel armed too. They are not military units, but they should have some basic defensive capabilities. In ancient times caravans would travel with swords. Even today merchant ships have guns onboard to defend against pirates.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

So I lose my gold (and everything else), and the enemy civ takes it?

I feel like there should be a graphical representation of the unit coming under attack. In real life the enemy would not just loot the caravan and let the people go. The people who were involved with the caravan would likely be killed or enslaved. So I think the caravan unit should be killed, or it should be turned into a worker and captured by the other civ.

Caravans usually travel armed too. They are not military units, but they should have some basic defensive capabilities. In ancient times caravans would travel with swords. Even today merchant ships have guns onboard to defend against pirates.

The civilians in the caravan are not enough to justify a worker coming from them (just like the soldiers in a military unit aren't enough)

And the armament on your caravans is for random small bands, not the armies represented by barbarian military units

 

[Knut_Are_M]

how do you defend international trade routes? it must be a royal pain in the ass.
Perhaps that is one of the perks of internal trade routes. Far easier to defend.

Ps is venice really one of the most map dependant civs there are?

if you are Lucky With 3 Close by cs you are golden, if not you are going to have a very messy game. it is one of those civs you just pray some civs will exspand towards you. just so you can take those cities later on.

since the AI will allways settle close to you it will not be a problem to play venice in Singleplayer. But in Mp it can be a mess. since they will know you are just hopeing for that they overexspand early on and settle close to you.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

how do you defend international trade routes? it must be a royal pain in the ass.
Perhaps that is one of the perks of internal trade routes. Far easier to defend.

Ps is venice really one of the most map dependant civs there are?

if you are Lucky With 3 Close by cs you are golden, if not you are going to have a very messy game. it is one of those civs you just pray some civs will exspand towards you. just so you can take those cities later on.

since the AI will allways settle close to you it will not be a problem to play venice in Singleplayer. But in Mp it can be a mess. since they will know you are just hopeing for that they overexspand early on and settle close to you.

To defend them
1. don't be at war
2. watch for/eliminate barbs (bigger problem with caravans, but they have a shorter range to watch)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Even today merchant ships have guns onboard to defend against pirates.

No they don't. That's why Somali pirates have been such a problem for the past decade or so. Now some shipping companies have taken to hiring mercenaries to guard the ships. For the most part, they are forced to rely on the navies of the world. I think there may be an international law against armed merchant vessels. I know some ports of call do not allow armed merchant vessels to enter.

 

[aluelkdf]

The civilians in the caravan are not enough to justify a worker coming from them (just like the soldiers in a military unit aren't enough)

And the armament on your caravans is for random small bands, not the armies represented by barbarian military units

Makes sense. The caravan can defend against an armed gang of 10 guys, but it's so insignificant that it's not even represented in the game. But if an actual military unit attacks then the caravan has no chance, which is realistic.

 

[dshirk]

Managing the risk with where your routes are traveling is one of the decisions you make when assigning routes. The most lucrative routes are sometimes in risky areas (neighbors who don't like you, etc.), so playing versus a war-happy civ often encourages me to send my routes in the opposite direction, and basing them in cities far away from trouble spots.

 

[aluelkdf]

No they don't. That's why Somali pirates have been such a problem for the past decade or so. Now some shipping companies have taken to hiring mercenaries to guard the ships. For the most part, they are forced to rely on the navies of the world. I think there may be an international law against armed merchant vessels. I know some ports of call do not allow armed merchant vessels to enter.

I would bet that many ships have crew that illegally carry guns. I personally would not sail anywhere near the Somali coast without knowing that my ship was armed.

I think in international water there are no laws about guns. But if the ship wants to enter a port to trade, then they need to abide to the laws of whatever country they are in. So in effect, they still need to follow laws when in international water, or they will be stranded at see and will never be able to dock at a harbor.

 

[Buccaneer]

I like what Dennis said - you have to manage risk. If you want the rewards, you must be able to mitigate the risk and accept the costs. Nothing in the game should be given and maintained freely without effort. That makes the rewards greater.

 

[aluelkdf]

When caravans trade, both civs benefit with gold, science etc. Do civs that trade a lot get any sort of diplomatic benefit? Will city states and civs like you more if you trade with them? If two civs are big trading partners, they tend to be friendlier with each other than they otherwise would be. A good example is China and America, both civs rely on each other, so nobody wants to start a war.

 

[apocalypse105]

To plunder a trade unit, you cannot plunder the route, you must either place a military unit on top of the trade unit and select "Plunder" while at war, or have a trade unit physically travel through your military unit (or a barbarian, etc.) while at war. For example, you park a swordsman on a hostile trade route, knowing that a Caravan will eventually come to you. When it eventually does, it will be plundered.

Do you have a options where you units fallow the trade unit? A fallow command for units?