CCS: Counter-Yields

[GeneralZift]

I'm starting a new series surrounding my personal concepts of what I would enjoy in a Civilisation game.
I'm going over fine details to dissect what could be interesting solutions to long-standing problems.

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Concept
The first of these is the Counter-Yield.

This is not an old idea, it's just the term I will be using for mechanics in previous games such as Happiness, Amenities, Fresh Water, Appeal, Loyalty, and so on -- these mechanics which act as a shield against limitless growth, or limitless expansion.

However, I think with some more nuanced design, we could have reasonable limits for most, if not all, important yields that the game has.

The largest weakness of these mechanics in previous games is that they did not effectively limit 'winning' players as they did 'losing' players.

If we design these mechanics to hamper big and powerful empires more than weak and small empires, we more greatly allow for losing players to catch up.

Implementation
I suggest 3 counter-yields. Each controls the output of 1-2 regular yields. Each varies by city (not empire-wide).
They are all combated by structures, policies, terrain features and projects.
Likewise, they may stem from both regular growth, or as downsides to structures, policies, terrain features or external interference.

1. Corruption
Increases with accumulated (static, unused) wealth, and with some policies, from building wealth structures, and with foreign interference.

Represents the 'waste' of resources that is essentially destroyed by being laundered by public officials, or other lack of efficiency and waste.

Has the effect of reducing output production and gold. This effect ranges from 0 to 20% reduction.

Extremely high corruption puts your city at risk of riots. These concerns can be squashed with government and policy adjustments - for example Oligarchical government.


2. Health
Decreases with population. This replaces Fresh Water mechanic - access to freshwater simply increases the base Health value.
Decreases with disease ridden terrain (swamps, rainforests)

Increases with health structures. This would be the apothecary at early ages, replaced by hospitals, medical labs and so on.

The health value simply multiplies the growth. High health means high growth, low health means loss of growth.

Dangerously low health may trigger plague events which can spread low health to other cities.
Very high health has the added bonus of producing tourism and additional citizen efficiency.

3. Education
Decreases with population. Increases with Education structures, which usually but not always coincide with Science structures.
For example, Library and University provide both. Public schools only provide Education, and Research Labs only provide Science.
Culture buildings may also provide Education. For example, Theatre.

Education represents the knowledge of the public.
Without a knowledgeable public to make use of facilities, they are not as efficient as they would otherwise be with easy access to education.
A knowledgeable public is also required for more access to the arts and culture of your nation. So low education means a lower culture output too.

Low education has the effect of reduced science and culture in the city. This effect ranges from 0 to 20% reduction.
Very high education has the added bonus of additional science and culture, plus tourism.

Summary
The Counter-Yield idea might seem like fluff but I think it's a crucial component to getting the 4X gameplay right.

Imagine, as a player gets larger and more successful, they have to deal with more health issues, with lack of education capping off their progress, and with money and production leaking through corruption.

That creates a diminishing returns effect for large empires, be it wide or tall, as they struggle with issues relevant to their playstyle (eg. Healthcare for tall players and Corruption for wide players)

Small empires, that is losing players, weak AI and newbies, don't have to struggle too much with these various factors, as they catch up at an increased rate to the stronger players.

Players can choose to pivot their empire style to move progress forward no matter the cost - via policies that side-step societal issues.
Or you could be a benevolent leader and focus on society, to reap benefits of high education, high health and low corruption.

People may flock to your country as tourists from your education and healthcare, this can allow you to pivot your game in interesting ways.

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Conclusion
I'd like to hear feedback! I freely admit that the concept could be refined. Potentially 'Education' out of the three is the least important to put in a Civ game. I tried to keep all of them simple, so that they wouldn't hamper the gameplay too much. I'm imagining that these yields would go under a 'Society' tab for each city.
In planning this concept I conveniently left out Happiness because I wasn't sure how to go about tying it to the other mechanics and the game in general.

Next time, I'll be doing a concept on Alternate Win Conditions. I have an idea which might lead to more varied games and underdog victories - and it's somewhat tied to this mechanic. Thanks for reading!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'd like to hear feedback! I freely admit that the concept could be refined. Potentially 'Education' out of the three is the least important to put in a Civ game.

In my ideal historical 4X game I have always thought of the idea of having "knowledge" as its own yield that way science and culture wouldn't be needed for separate yields. At least when it comes to having a singular knowledge tree, which could be a combination of technologies and civics. But I agree that it's probably the least needed in civ because we already have separate science and culture yields.

In planning this concept I conveniently left out Happiness because I wasn't sure how to go about tying it to the other mechanics and the game in general.

I would assume that the concept of "unhappiness" would coincide with all three. Maybe you would completely lose happiness yields if you had major corruption, no healthcare, and low education.

 

[GeneralZift]

In my ideal historical 4X game I have always thought of the idea of having "knowledge" as its own yield that way science and culture wouldn't be needed for separate yields. At least when it comes to having a singular knowledge tree, which could be a combination of technologies and civics. But I agree that it's probably the least needed in civ because we already have separate science and culture yields.

I would assume that the concept of "unhappiness" would coincide with all three. Maybe you would completely lose happiness yields if you had major corruption, no healthcare, and low education.

Mhm definitely! Also, I initially called it Ignorance instead of Education it was going to be the same thing just in the opposite direction.

Somehow, it sounds a little too morbid for a Civ game though

 

[GeneralZift]

Minor concept update:

I wanted corruption to limit Wide empires, by having cities further from the capital to have a slight increase in base corruption values.

Then, they become less efficient but not necessarily useless or counter-productive as they were in Civ5.

(Playing wide in Civ5 meant you suffered Science, Culture and Happiness penalties.
Here, the far cities will just produce less Gold and Production until you root out the corruption)

Then, likewise, Health limits Tall empires.
I think it'd be better than the Civ6 fresh water / housing system because it affects growth rather than sets a rigid cap for how much pop you can grow in a city.
Far more choices for improving 'Health' mechanically speaking. For example, Projects, Buildings, Policies.

 

[MutilationWave]

Minor concept update:

I wanted corruption to limit Wide empires, by having cities further from the capital to have a slight increase in base corruption values.

Then, they become less efficient but not necessarily useless or counter-productive as they were in Civ5.

(Playing wide in Civ5 meant you suffered Science, Culture and Happiness penalties.
Here, the far cities will just produce less Gold and Production until you root out the corruption)

Then, likewise, Health limits Tall empires.
I think it'd be better than the Civ6 fresh water / housing system because it affects growth rather than sets a rigid cap for how much pop you can grow in a city.
Far more choices for improving 'Health' mechanically speaking. For example, Projects, Buildings, Policies.

Did you play civ 3? Corruption was absurd in that game to the point new cities were practically useless other than to grab new resources towards middle/end of each game. I like your ideas but consider how anti-fun that was.

 

[GeneralZift]

Did you play civ 3? Corruption was absurd in that game to the point new cities were practically useless other than to grab new resources towards middle/end of each game. I like your ideas but consider how anti-fun that was.

Well, I have played a bit of Civ3, but not totally aware how Corruption works there.
Although I mentioned earlier here, that the reduction caps at 20%. So even if the corruption is quite high, it doesn't make the city useless.
The only weakness would be, once it hits a very high threshold, you start potentially losing happiness and getting revolts

 

[MutilationWave]

Well, I have played a bit of Civ3, but not totally aware how Corruption works there.
Although I mentioned earlier here, that the reduction caps at 20%. So even if the corruption is quite high, it doesn't make the city useless.
The only weakness would be, once it hits a very high threshold, you start potentially losing happiness and getting revolts

My bad, I didn't catch the 20% limit. Sounds good. I think it could even be higher. Civ 3 was more like 80% as I remember, but it's been many years since I played.