Census

[Immortal]

Census for articles A B C F G H I J K L M N is declared as 48 and Id like to tell the three people who obviously dont know how to read how disappointed I am with them.

 

[Sarevok]

Census for articles A B C F G H I J K L M N is declared as 48 and Id like to tell the three people who obviously dont know how to read how disappointed I am with them.

I wonder who they were...

 

[Immortal]

Furthermore I am thoroughly disgusted by the fact that articles D E O and our preamble are now going to fail to meet quorum due to about 20 people not voting in their ratification poll AT ALL and having about 5 new votes in the last 24 hours.

 

[LeeT911]

Couldn't the silence of voters simply construed as indifference? And since those who have voted have voted overwhelmingly to ratify the articles in question, can't they be considered passed?

 

[Immortal]

our constitution is clear in its rule, the article stating as such has been ratified.

Im not in the business of ignoring a rule I dont like.

 

[MSTK]

I can't hold it in much longer...the guilt is killing me.

On retrospect I think that approaching the point of having guilt on internet activites really is a low...

But I voted on the poll before I read the post. I was one of the Three.

I'm sorry

 

[KCCrusader]

Immortal is right. The part of the constitution dealing with ratification has passed. Therefore it would be impossible to act outside of those rules simply because we wanted to... :-(

 

[Immortal]

MTSK: all you had to do was ask a mod to add your vote to the ratification poll It wouldnt have been anything more than a second thought!

an unfortunate accident.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Couldn't the silence of voters simply construed as indifference? And since those who have voted have voted overwhelmingly to ratify the articles in question, can't they be considered passed?

@Lee, I am already in the process of proposing an amendment to Article I, which deals with the ratification process. I will try to get it going tonight, but may have to wait until tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Immortal]

What do you want it to contain? I can write it.

 

[LeeT911]

My suggestion: Take out point "c". Point "b" already makes for a majority of YES votes. That should be enough. That way we don't have to deal with voter turnout problems. There is already a mininum of (24 hours review + 96 hours voting) 5 days for any amendment. That should give ample time to anyone who wants to cast a vote to do so.

Also, since we're changing it, the last point (d) should be made the first one, just so everything falls in chronological order: proposal, vote, results.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Thanks, Morty. It's 5 hours until the rooster crows again, and I am starting to see double. Which means I am seeing two Natalie's right now, so's not all bad.

This is what I submitted in the Article I ratification thread. You can post this for starters, and open discussion. Personally, I am more concerned about a clear majoity(b) than I am a minimum census requirement(c), but would like to include both.

Article I.  Census, and Amending the Constitution

              1.  The census shall be defined as the average number 
                  of votes cast, dropping fractions, in each of the
                  contested elections in the most recent general 
                  election.
              2.  Ratification of Amendments to the Constitution 
                  shall require each of the following:
                a.  A poll which is open for at least 96 hours, which 
                    states the text of the proposed new section(s), 
                    the text of the section(s) being replaced, and 
                    posing the question in the form of yes / no / 
                    abstain.
                b.  A [b]60-67%(tbd)[/b] majority of yes votes.
                c.  A [b]total number of votes[/b] greater than or equal to 
                    2/3 the census current at the start of voting on 
                    the amendment, dropping any fraction therein.
                d.  The Amendment poll must first be posted as a 
                    "proposed poll" in the discussion thread created 
                    for the Amendment. The proposed poll must exist
                    in the discussion thread for 24 hours prior to the 
                    Amendment poll being created. This gives adequate
                    time for review and changes.

 

[Immortal]

I find the proposal acceptable.

 

[Cyc]

How about this:

Article P  The Game Opening Constitution

           1. The Constitution that officially opens the Demogame is subject to 
       ratification quorum of 51% of the active census. This status of 
       [i]reduced quorum[/i] will remain in effect for the first week of the 
       Demogame's first Term. This Article will help alleviate any quorum 
       problems caused by one-time voters or transient citizens.

If we get this passed now, our problems could be solved.

 

[Immortal]

That still does not solve the problem of 2/3 majority YES, redundant in the article in question with the "majority of citizen" point.

 

[Cyc]

yes, but it gives us time to fix the problems.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Except for the fact that we won't ratify it in time, I love it!

But will we have the votes to remove it? I say we just work on Article I.

How about this?

67% majority
YES votes must equal 50% of active census.

This way we can get away with less votes for the slamdunk proposals. I iwll have to run the numbers, but I think this plan would require a few more YES votes.

EDIT: To be continued..............TOMORROW!

 

[Cyc]

You mean that 67% of the census must vote and at least half of the votes must be a YES vote. Correct?

 

[Donovan Zoi]

No, I mean that Constitution amendments must be approved by a 67% majority.

Say the census is 48. The number of YES votes required would be 24(50% of census), yet it could have no more than 12 dissenting votes to ensure passage by a 67% majority.

I am quite adamant about requiring a clear majority to amend the Constitution. A simple 51% majority simply will not do.

---

Now let's go back to my proposal from post #32.

If we decide to require 2/3 of the census to participate, and still demand a 67% majority from there, here are the numbers based on a census of 48.

Number of total votes required for passage: 32

The smallest number of YES votes required to meet this minimum is 22 votes. A 22-10 decision would be just over 67%, while a 21-11 result would fail by the smallest of margins.

 

[Cyc]

How about a 21 - 10 - 1 result?

Or a 22 - 11 - 1 result?

Or 22 - 10 - 3 result?