Challenge #6: Ironman

[patagonia]

1350 AD for me at the second attempt.

Spoiler :

Settled in place and went straight for archery as before. Then pumped archers until I had sufficient barb breathing space for my worker to head out and pasture the cows and build a couple of mines.

Built second (and only other) city on the desert hill to the northeast so that it could pick up copper for axes (and more importantly, spears) and also the gold, and had time to build up a decent defensive force in the capital before Alex and Toku came calling. After picking up masonry (for walls), I did a straight beeline for Feudalism, but unfortunately my economy ground to a halt due to the unit maintenance I was having to pay to weather the AI storm and as Perseopolis was under constant siege by this point there wasn't really the opportunity to run science specialists to keep research trickling along.

I managed to hang on to the capital despite the AI throwing dozens of horse archers, elephants, catapults, swords and axes at it (mainly due to the sheer number of defenders - I think I had about 6-8 of each unit type stashed away there). However, when Monty and Genghis had finished killing Caesar and turned up with stacks of knights and maces the end came fairly quickly after that. Perseopolis fell in 1290 and there was no let-up in the assult from there.

The things that really seemed to make a difference this time around were picking up the gold with the second city for a few extra units and having a medic warrior in each of my settlements. They did a great job of healing all the defenders and were the last unit engaged and killed in each city.

Watch the demise of the Persian empire here:

 

[oyzar]

Spoiler :

This time i got out fog buster relativly early. This prevented like all barbs and heck i even caputred a couple barb cities for massive gc to keep me alive longer. With beelining for monarchy(after BW, roads but before pottery and masonery) I actually had some infrastructure a couple of turns before the AI's came for real and I got realy big cities(using all floodplains + 3 winerys + cows + corn in my main city yeaha). Stupid AI keep pillaging my things though. The horse city and the capital are fairly secure atm with enough defenders to hold them for a while. Going for longbowmen if i can get them in time. Is there any good way to choke hold the AI? Cause as it is now they can just stay in the hills and keep on pestering me even after they have thrown most of their army against the city walls.

 

[Lynxx]

Seems this challange is pretty random actually. It all depends on how early you meet the other civilizations(yous scout must survive long enough) and if they go to war with oneanother.

I found, and declared war, to all but two of them very early and shortly there after the second last one. When i finally found Gengis (or was it Tokugawa?) he was far more advanced and had far better troops then the other ai's as he hadnt been at war yet and had been focusing more on research.

If the ai's are at war with oneanother then its pretty clear that the human is going to benefit form it... I dont know but i think they were all a peaceful bunch and bullied me as a team in my game.

 

[Raiser]

1000AD and going strong, sort of, kind of, holding on. (I'd be further on but I told you already.....Sopranos was on!)

Spoiler :

I have moved my starting city quite far north and taken copper with my first city (after the boarder spread a bit). I'm not sure yet if the move was a good one. We'll see. It's a weak position but the early axes were sweet.


Interesting reading. Thanks.

Random thoughts:

Lets not talk about the first game. I was in trouble anyway, but having a pair of Praets pop out of what I thought was an empty galley really ruined the occassion.

Been there. Done that. Fortunately not with this challenge....yet.

I got archery and mining from huts.

Lucky git! I hate map pops.

The things that really seemed to make a difference this time around were picking up the gold with the second city for a few extra units and having a medic warrior in each of my settlements. They did a great job of healing all the defenders and were the last unit engaged and killed in each city.

Yeah, I swear by those medics. I think your 1350AD is going to hold for a while. Congrats.

---

 

[Janus0]

Made a second attempt at it and clawed my way to 1540 this time.

Spoiler :

I basicly did what I did last time, but somehow managed to chop the oracle in about 6-8 turns for monarchy, didn't bother with iron working, and only went for 2 cities instead of 3. I had occasional problems with strikes and disbanded units when the end finnaly came, but in the end the only technologies that did much good were bronze working, monarchy, and archery.

Knights, Macemen, Samurai, and Musketmen eek versus Archers, Axes, and Spears.

Alamo! Alamo! lol...

 

[Cabledawg]

1820...Won Space Race
It was touch and go for awhile there, but....oh wait...thats another game.
1260AD..Defeat
Id like to know how many units you guys killed. heres my totals

Lion............2
Bear...........1
Wolf...........1
Scout.........2
Warrior.......48
Swordsman.6
Jag.............6
Praet..........5
Axe............6
Macemen....1
Spear.........4
Phalanx......5
Archer........55
Longbow....11
Crossbow...11
Chariot......4
HA............72
Jumbo.......24
Cats..........10

Total = 274

Units lost
Scouts......2
Axemen....14
Spearmen..26
Archer.......23

Total = 65

 

[scherbchen]

heh, you really had me going there

 

[cabert]

No 1000 AD most pop?
What if i manage a conquest victory ?

 

[patagonia]

Id like to know how many units you guys killed.

My stats - in descending order:

Spoiler :

Archer = 63
Horse Archer = 59
Warrior = 33
Elephant = 22
Catapult = 22
Swordsman = 17
Phalanx = 15
Axeman = 12
Maceman = 5
Knight = 4
Crossbowman = 4
Chariot = 3
Longbow = 2
Panther = 1

Total = 262 kills

============

Archer = 24
Spearman = 20
Axeman = 20
Warrior = 2
Scout = 2
Worker = 2

Total = 90 losses

The AI sure does have a cavalry fetish compared to the typical player axe/cat/mace approach on these fora.

1290 here. I got one axeman to level 8. He had more than 50 experience points!

Have you got a screenie? He should be the "ironman" of this challenge! Even if he is made with bronze...

As far as the comment about this being fairly random goes, There was a certain degree of consistency in my two stabs so far: a couple of AIs crashing the party around 300AD and the others gradually sending their stacks through over the next few hundred years. Date of first contact didn't seem to have much of an effect on the beginning of the end; it was my state of readiness that improved between attempts.

Unless someone can come up with an early Feudalism slingshot (could be a useful strategy on high levels in general? Especially on Warlords with a protective civ?), it may be hard to survive much longer than we're currently seeing. Once the medieval units start to arrive in droves, there's not much your ancient era ones can do to cope. Janus0's 1540AD sounds seriously impressive - that's a whole 29 turns (I think) longer than my last attempt which is huge by that stage of the game.

Spoiler :

Watching the map on the replay, I was praying for a one square island within galley reach of the Persian peninsula to try and sneak out a city that might stand a chance of surviving until the AI has astronomy, but alas there's no offshore land on the whole map.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Cats and Praets and Elephants, but sure as you're born: the loveliest of all was the unicorn.

I think I've found one useful tactical idea...

Spoiler :

The two scouts and warrior on the first build are serving as fog busters, and I set them up in the north, so that the fog of war is between the scouts and the city. When the barbs spawn, I want them to come to the city and splash against the garrison, not kill the scout and create a larger spawning zone

 

[patagonia]

Oh well, so much for that idea:

Spoiler :

Checking the great people tech preferences, it seems that you can only lightbulb Feudalism with a GE or a GA and it's a lower priority than other techs likely to be available for either, so it looks like a feudalism slingshot is definitely out. Researching it the old fashioned way appears to be the only way to go - aside from maybe gambling on an Oracle > Monarchy jump to save a few turns.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Another idea that didn't seem to work:

Spoiler :

I tried picking off a religion, so that I could...
run a priest to lightbulb code of laws
swap to caste system to run merchants, lightbulb metal casting
build a forge, run an engineer, and lightbulb machinery.

Of course, you'll be running that Engineer for 100 turns... good luck with that.

 

[cabert]

Another idea that didn't seem to work:

Spoiler :

I tried picking off a religion, so that I could...
run a priest to lightbulb code of laws
swap to caste system to run merchants, lightbulb metal casting
build a forge, run an engineer, and lightbulb machinery.

Of course, you'll be running that Engineer for 100 turns... good luck with that.

600 AD for my first try.

Spoiler :

I did tech up to CoL. I did get confucianism.
Then I died
No fogbusting at all = hard time.
teching to HA then the wheel, I settled my second city on the horses (no you won't pillage my horses!).
Built 3 workers (2 actually lived to 600 AD).
They spent most of the time running away from barbs
my best building was a library

 

[Janus0]

Some tips from my runs:

Spoiler :

1) Build 4-6 workers and build an improvement on EVERY tile in your culture. Pillage efforts break up enemy stacks into managable groups of 2-3 units that your spearmen can attack and destroy with few to no casualties.
2) Spearmen are overwhealmingly useful against the other civs. They rely heavily on cavalry units after a while, and once you push back their axes, they tend to zerg you with horse archers, elephants, and knights more than anything else.
3) Attack the barbarians. Defend against the other civs. Try to figure out when to counter-attack between waves and when to turtle up.
4) Don't bother with anything other than units. After bronze working, technology becomes a perk, not a requirement. Only work cottage tiles if you need the gold to support your unit's maintenance costs.
5) Avoid exploring. There are alot of goodie huts out there, but they aren't worth the risk of encountering other civs. One of the keys to this challenge is to avoid contact with hostiles as long as possible.

 

[oyzar]

Spoiler :

I got Feaudalism around 800AD. I allready have monarchy. Now I am just hoarding gold so i can upgrade my archers... Let see how far this go

 

[Raiser]

Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!

Spoiler :

Janus0 comments are so right. Why did I bother building my Citadel of Beauty and Magnificence?

Oracle for Monarchy - check, Great Prophet for Civil Service - check, Library&cottages taking Feudalism - check, my gold graph matching my neighbours - check, confident I’d march into the 16th century – check.

Then after seeing off Alexanders punishing assault since 640AD…. Monty strolls in with 27 brand new units and finishes me off in one turn on 1050AD.


But what a start!
- Moved my starting city north in preparation to take early copper,
- Built almost no warriors or archers,
- Axemen slaughtered the barbies before they got near my city walls,
- Oracle gave Monarchy at 750BC,
- So the Gr prophet from the oracle popped at 250AD to help with Civil Service.
(Feeling confident. Plenty of spearmen. And Convinced that a strong capital with the +50% from bureaucracy was the key to this challenge. )
- Then 1050AD got feudalism and Pow! beaten with a big horsehockey stick. Thanks.


1. Not to cry sour grapes, but I never scouted and met any civs. They came and found me. Does killing scouts/troops in the field before they 'see' your cultural boarders help delay an attack?


2. It felt like a huge jump up to go from 400 years of a steady stream of units from Alexander to sudden hitting 1000AD and getting 28 units all at once from Monty. I guess I just wasn't properly prepared. Did everyone get that sort of step up when being initially attacked by a 2nd AI?


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Edit: Still as satisfying as Bureaucracy and Longbowmen are, I still think that Janus0’s strat of 6 workers, mass-improvements and a ton of spearmen is the way to go.

So good luck Oyzar. Be strong.

Have you gone Civil Service and Feud? Or just Feud?

First attempt. Tried too hard to tech. Left myself exposed.

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[oyzar]

Spoiler :

Bleh how do i get pics up in the msg?
longbowmen rawks! And yeah montezuma came with like 20ish guys when he showed up. I didnt lose anything to his assult though. Once in a while a phant kill a lowlife longbowman(like 1/1000) but thats it atm. Going soo slow since the turns are so long.

 

[oyzar]

1480 AD for me now.

Spoiler :

These are the kills from 1470 AD the turn i thought i was going to die(only had 7 longbowmen + a spearman left).

Horse Archer = 159
Archer = 55
Catapult = 58
Elephant = 56
Axeman = 35
Swordsman = 31
Warrior = 26
Phalanx = 26
Crossbowman = 26
Chariot = 25
Spearmen = 18
Praetorian = 18
Jaguar = 13
Maceman = 13
Knight = 4
Wolf = 3
Pikemen = 3
Longbow = 2
Worker = 2
Panther = 1
Lion = 1

Kills = 575
============
Longbowmen = 34
Axeman = 23
Archer = 12
Spearman = 10
Immortal = 6
Horse Archer = 2
Scout = 3
Worker = 5

Total = 95 losses

Cottages + scientists made it possible for me to research Feudalism(after that i stopped researching with other that scientists turning the slider to 0% to get some gc to upgrade some archers). 10-20 longbowmen can hold a city REALY long but even they fall when the enemy throw 20 units a turn at it non-stop(didnt have enough healers only like 5-6).
Fogbusters into monarchy before they started pestering me for real and the faudalism before the warelephants came was what made it possible to last as long as i did. I also poped archery mysticism and a while later horseback riding from huts + alot of gold. Build first city on spot second city on hill with the horses and 3rd city on the desert hill(having it on a hill prolly saved me 2-3 turns). Having hereditary rule let persopolis grow to size 15(and working mostly cottages/winerys at one point). This gave me an enourmous production output while also taking max advantge of syrus exapnsive trait. Razing 3 barb cities helped me somewhat economically to strategically research stuff in time and upgrade units. Immortals are soo good at smashing barb cities. This challenge realy thought me alot. How to handle barbs at the higher levels how to properly defend your land among other things. It also showed the insane power of longbowmen.

This is prolly my last try unless someone reveal some mad tech. Thanks for letting me participate in this.

"This is a good day to die!"

 

[scherbchen]

died in 1550, can´t see how i can do this any better unless i start to abuse hut-popping.

Spoiler :

tech archery, do not build warrior but barracks, get bronze working, immediatly go for priesthood afterwards. i don´t fogbust so me archers will have to rack up some experience, no point in getting a worker pre-priesthood. if ye can have two first-strike-promoted archers rady to escort your worker as soon as priesthood is researched. chop down all the forests surrounding the capitol, voila monarchy.

i then went for longbowmen as fast as i could, churning out the second city in the meantime (on top of copper as has been suggested). this city only serves to provide copper while you research the longbowman tech. maybe you get it to build a handfull of longbowmen before the roads are not safe enough to travel aymore.

get masonry and basically stop research right then and there. with some already built spearmen and longbowmen from now on you are set, jst waether the assault.

i did not walk out of my peninsula, alex´s scouts were going to find me anyways. popped mining (and some maps) and got up to 140 gold, so that helped.

1280 knights appeared but the longbowmen held strong, infrastructure was of course gone now
1460 musketmen attack the capitol
1525 mongolian cavalry sighted (omgawd haxxx?!?)

popped 2 great prophets via the oracle, both settled... that helped to churn out some more units and to pay for the "army". basically only used the whip towards the end to prolong my miserable existence.

killed:

50 archers
44 horse archers
38 knights
65 catapults
1 or 2 cavalries

oracle -> monarchy... i approve!

 

[Elrohir]

This is great fun. I usually play on Monarch, and without always war, so this is a real challenge. My first try petered out, but now I'm on my second, at 350 AD and still alive. I only have two cities, though, and Monty and Alex never seem to stop throwing waves of units at me, despite how relatively easily I slaughter them.