Challenge #6: Ironman

[Cabledawg]

I swear this is my last try. Someone had mentioned the Oracle/Feudalism slingshot. So I decided to give it a shot. I figured if i was gonna build the Oracle, why not build Stonehenge first and get double prophet points.
I knew it would be tough militarily, but If I could get out 4 archers before starting, I would be fine. I put 1 on the gold, 1 in a forest and 2 in the city.
I built Stonehenge while researching to Priesthood, started Oracle late while teching to Iron Working. Interupted the build for an axemen or 2. Finished Oracle and researched Monarchy. I had gotten Writing and Animal Husbandry from 2 huts so when the 1st prophet came in, I took Feudalism.....and when the next Prophet came in.......

I had met Julius and Alex before 0AD so I knew this game was trashed but i wanted to see if it was possible to get to Theocracy. I made it to 1545AD before Cavalry took me down....doesnt that seem a bit too early for Cavalry?
The later you meet a civ, the more exponentially its better. It gives them time to war against each other instead of getting the "mutual military struggle" plus modifier.

 

[patagonia]

I I had gotten Writing and Animal Husbandry from 2 huts so when the 1st prophet came in, I took Feudalism.....

I thought you could only pop GA/GE for Feudalism. Will prophets give it to you as well?

I don't think it makes too much difference when you meet Alex/Julius etc. My games always seemed to start to go to pot when Monty began throwing large stacks my way.

 

[Splattery]

Splattery: Welcome, and nice job on your first challenge! You wouldn't happen to have a save from the last turn of your most succesful try, would you? Anyway, I just read your spoiler and the strategy is pretty different from most things I've seen so far. Guess it's not that cut and dry after all. I have a question though: did you build a second city? I got the impression that you did not from your post. That might actually improve your strategy, since a well placed second city doesn't get attacked too much and so you don't need many defenders and it can still perform useful tasks.

I still haven't managed to give this a second try; I got lost in a Rome game in Warlord. Imperialistic & Praetorians makes for so much fun!

Actually, I didn't keep a save as I originally had no intention of posting - I just happened to run across the challenge and thought it would be fun. Anyway, someone already has a better score, and nobody ever remembers second place...

It's possible that a second city would help, but I fear it would hold back my capital defense too much. Who knows?

One other thing I noticed is that it may not be a liability to run into all of your opponents early, as it might cause the AI to delay the Oracle while creating more attack units. I tried another run at it, but deleted my scout immediately to see what would happen, and someone beat me to the Oracle. This is definitely a variant that requires a completely different strategy than the normal game.

 

[Zaimejs]

with this save, you don't start next to a civ
+ fogbusting (= fortifying some units, on hills preferably for larger sight, to clear the fog of war. Barbs only spawn in the fog of war)
+ huts give you techs (i have popped archery in every single trial!)
+ holding an improvement isn't necessary at all, just rebuild
+ more cities = less barbs (less room!)
+ chopping hard for the Oracle will also clear forests around your cities = you can attack barbs/ais coming for you

IMHO the best unit for this challenge is the worker!

Ha ha.. here's how stupid I am... I didn't know there was a save. I've just been respawning the game over and over... randomly. I'll have to try that map.

you can pay to buy experience for units?

 

[Splattery]

Well, I had much better luck rearranging my promotions a bit - now I go hill 1 and 2, city 1, 2, 3, then combat 1, 2, then the 25% mounted. I found that knights were the units most responsible for the deaths of my super-veteran units, and that's because I "wasted" the four drill promotions on them, and knights are immune to the first strike.

Cavalry, however...

Anyway, I made it to 1730 and I got the save, but of course any score not first is tied for last...

I must say, though, that played this way (hole up in capital) provides some awesome death tolls...

 

[Splattery]

Aha... 1818. Plus one longbow to level 18 with 305 XP right before dying.

I built 83 longbows total, who managed to kill:

57 warriors
26 swords
26 jags
16 praetorians
49 axemen
12 macemen
19 samurai
41 spearmen
17 phalanx
30 pikemen
26 musketmen
58 archers
3 longbows
74 crossbows
29 chariots
183 horse archers
20 keshiks
175 knights
42 cavalry
170 war elephants
275 catapults
and a partridge in a pear tree

 

[lilnev]

Has anyone tried a "large empire" approach? I started over, and as of ~400 AD I have 8 cities (7 built, 1 captured from barbs). I still have room for 1 or 2 more plus the frontier hill cities to block the onslaught. The plan is to have a larger production base that can keep reinforcing the front, plus a bunch of cottages secure from pillaging so I can maintain some sort of economy. Maintainance costs are starting to hurt, though, and I haven't built my legions of longbows yet. We'll see.
City placements:

Spoiler :

Capital claims cows + horse. As in my previous games, early immortals and judicious fogbusting make the barbs into a minor nuisance, not a real threat. 2nd city SE of copper, claiming 3 flood plains. 3rd city N of wine, claiming marble and corn. 4th city gold, cows, fish. 5th 3E of capital, claiming 3 flood plains + some hills and misc ground. 6th WSW of pigs. 7th (from barbs) in the far SE of the continent. 8th by the rice.

And I've found a hut-popping path that gives 51 gold, Wheel, Horseback Riding, and Pottery from the first four. I agree with the suggestion to remove goody huts from future challenges. It feels really cheesy.

peace,
lilnev, First Citizen

p.s. I'm editing the first post to specify a tiebreaker if we need it -- most enemy units killed.

 

[patagonia]

Aha... 1818. Plus one longbow to level 18 with 305 XP right before dying.

I built 83 longbows total, who managed to kill:

57 warriors
26 swords
26 jags
16 praetorians
49 axemen
12 macemen
19 samurai
41 spearmen
17 phalanx
30 pikemen
26 musketmen
58 archers
3 longbows
74 crossbows
29 chariots
183 horse archers
20 keshiks
175 knights
42 cavalry
170 war elephants
275 catapults
and a partridge in a pear tree

What, no Grenadiers?

I make that 1348 units killed (give or take a typo), which is just insane.

Congratulations on making it to the 19th centuary!

 

[lilnev]

Aha... 1818. Plus one longbow to level 18 with 305 XP right before dying.

Whoa. Well done. Pretty soon you're going to be losing the space race .

I'm glad to see this game is popular. I count 14 people who have finished it, plus me (who hasn't actually played a game to the death yet). And scores have been steadily improving, which suggests people are finding new tactics, or at least refining the old ones. How far can this go?

peace,
lilnev, First Citizen

 

[Jet]

Has anyone tried a "large empire" approach?

I'd expect that to be the best strategy. In RB Epic 4 I had 3 well-defended but spread-out cities and almost got creamed by barb grenadiers and riflemen before the (friendly) AI showed up and cleared them out. Players who built out from a corner were the ones who did well. Different game, of course. In another raging barb game I played, it was helpful to build out from a triangle with cottages in the middle.

 

[idiot_savant]

Sorry... should have asked this to the general populace... has anyone succeeded with an Oracle/Metal Casting/GE strategy at Immortal? I was thinking of doing this and using GE for tech like someone had mentioned, but I never play Immortal and just learned this gambit from Sisutil's ALCs. Just curious...

 

[lilnev]

1120 AD and holding steady. I've weathered the first wave, but I'm sure they'll be back. I actually don't like the quiet -- a steady stream would be easier to deal with than a massive wave. I've got 11 cities; 2 are just defensive shells, the rest are mixed cottages/mines, size 6-11 (HR and garrison troops for happiness). I'm actually second on the scoreboard, though my tech is rather behind. Economy is running between 40% and 50% research. I just finished Machinery, starting Philosophy so I can switch to Pacifism. Just kidding, Engineering is next. A few pikes will be nice to keep the horse archers and elephants from pillaging my backfield. But mostly the longbows will have to hold until I reach Chemistry (cross fingers). My only non-military techs were CoL for much-needed courthouses and Sailing-Calendar, which might not be worth it. Looking at the tech tree, I realized something I'd never known before: Alphabet is actually a dead-end tech. You can win a spaceship victory without ever discovering Alphabet, but it's true.

Sorry... should have asked this to the general populace... has anyone succeeded with an Oracle/Metal Casting/GE strategy at Immortal?

Oracle->Metal Casting is very doable; I've done it. Make sure you're ready with the whip or chopping to get the forge up fast enough (I think you've got ~15 turns) so your GE points outpace your GP points.

peace,
lilnev

 

[carl corey]

Almost choked there when I read the part about Pacifism... Good thing you were kidding about it. Good luck holding on. 11 cities and second in score seems excellent. Could you post a save at this point? Seeing only the "dead-end" won't do us much good.

 

[patagonia]

Looking at the tech tree, I realized something I'd never known before: Alphabet is actually a dead-end tech. You can win a spaceship victory without ever discovering Alphabet, but it's true.

RB Adventure Four was based on exactly that - winning the space race without ever researching Alphabet.

I'll be interested to see how your empire holds up as the attack progresses. Have you thought about going on the offensive?

 

[scherbchen]

holy ****, i can not believe you actually got to 11 cities... it never even occurred to me that expanding at this level might be possible. heck, i might give this another go with that in mind. though surely i won´t be as successfull as that. but being that far in tech (i never got anywhere near engineering with 2 cities) surely offers up some interesting new choices and added fun

 

[Zaimejs]

That is hard to believe. I had three once.

 

[scherbchen]

lilnev is cheating! haXxX0rz!!!11

just kidding, kinda has me wishing for a play-by-play replay feature in civ4... i´d learn tons... on the other hand, screwing up by myself over and over and over again and then have a breakthrough after finally getting something? that´s the most fun in civ4 one can have imho

now let´s go back to razing cities, i got that!

 

[oyzar]

When at the start i saw others were doing no better than me i wqas like hey maybe i dont suck as much at this game as i thought. Then ppl started posting 1700's and 1800's finishes and things like illnev and i was like oh well I am just as bad as i thought i was.

 

[scherbchen]

just yell haXxX like i did

but seriously, i saw myself going down in the BC era before giving this the first attempt. i never get a good early rush going, if i win i do so by going to war post 1500. so even surviving till 1500s was a big deal for me at this level and with this kind of agression. i think that experience alone will help my early game in the future.

heck you went well into the 1600s... don´t put me down like that

 

[Raiser]

I'm actually second on the scoreboard, though my tech is rather behind.

1120AD and you are 2nd on the scoreboard! It is a bold strategy. I, like a lot of people, dismissed 'going big' out of hand. Clearly we were rash not to consider it.

But my advice is, if you've got 11 strong cities set up - do not go on the offensive to win. Weaken your nearest neighbour with hit and run tactics by all means, but if you commit to an offensive I think you could loose everything you've gained.

But then again I wouldn't take advice for someone who crashed and burned at 1050AD. Everytime I've returned to this challenge I just end up with 2 AI's wailing on me in the early AD's and I give up all hope and sulk.

Lilnev, how many AI's sent units to attack your cities before 1000AD? And please don't say, "none before 1000AD."



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