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Challenge-I-08

Slogged my way to an 1880s finish in OCC. Wasn't terribly isolated (met Pericles and Asoka early) but was able to stay ahead of the AI so could repulsed their attacks.

Got rid of the metioned two with maces and trebs and the rest fell with rifles, except Wang who had a couple cities left to deal with Artillery.
 
Currently undergoing an OCC where I might actually win (finally!). 500 turns in and 3 SoD's are finding cities to kill. Unfortunately, no horses and no oil means I'm stuck with 1-move units forever. At least it's any victory, even if it ends up being Time :lol:.
 
This challenge seems to be more about rolling that 1 out of a 1000 perfect map than anything else. 50 rerolls (non-mapfinder) to get a decent corner spot with 1 forested hill tile pass between the mountains (left) and sea (right) but it was resource-poor in the BFC and didn't have horses. No way I could have won with that.

Bleh :rolleyes:. Feel like I either need deity level skills...or forced use of mapfinder to get an over-powered start...just to finish this challenge series. Was that the intent ?

cas
 
You don't necessarily need a true one-tile choke point, even in OCC. My (admittedly slow) game had a 4-5 tile wide "choke". Key point here is to get a fort or 2 somewhere in the middle of the choke and get a bunch of good units in there (especially catas/cannon). Then every enemy stack has to go around your fort onto flat ground (chop those forests!). This leads to lots of GG's (especially with raging barbs+GW for double GG points). It does require luck in terms of not meeting people really really early (so they don't make stacks aimed at you before you get set up).
 
cas said:
This challenge seems to be more about rolling that 1 out of a 1000 perfect map than anything else. 50 rerolls (non-mapfinder) to get a decent corner spot with 1 forested hill tile pass between the mountains (left) and sea (right) but it was resource-poor in the BFC and didn't have horses. No way I could have won with that.

Bleh . Feel like I either need deity level skills...or forced use of mapfinder to get an over-powered start...just to finish this challenge series. Was that the intent ?

cas

Dont give up on this, because the funny thing about this game is that it plays and feels so much different than normal games. I find that once you get used to it, it really isnt THAT hard (though definitely not easy). I have played some more starts, and so far, even though I abandoned them along the way because they would not beat my submitted game, four of five would have been wins.

Key is to realize that you can easily (with OCC), even without great starts, outtech the AI badly. Only thing I require for a smooth start is -1. stone -2. enough food to allow some specialists early -3. having the nearby AI not be strong enough to send multiple stacks before 1AD.

Like narri said, you dont need an actual choke point, but rather just that you can always attack approaching enemies on flatlands from a fort or something, even two fronts is manageable, though one is preferrable.

Being semi-isolated is best, because you will have a period in time where it will be hard to fight more than a couple AI, and thus corner locations are easiest to play. I never use siege for defense, as they dont generally get good enough odds. Key is to set it up so you can kill units at a rate that will minimize losses. I find that once I can field ~15 muskets, they can sustain the defense with minimal reinforcements, and allow building stacks to go conquer.
 
My game wasn't isolated, wasn't a corner, no stone (until 4th ring anyway) or horses, wasn't that good :mischief:. I think too much is being made of the starting position. I would say have plenty of food and a gem or two, that's all (although stone is nice).

As Fluroscent says, as long as you can outtech the AI, you should be all right with anything they send as long as you have cleared the trees from your capital. Muskets ( or knights) should be able to handle them offensively and longbows defensively. There will be a scary moment or two but you should be able to get through.
 
why do you guys need stone? walls and a castle - does everyone go for pyramids?

How come so many people do this as a 1CC? seems like it would be a lot better with 3 or 4 cities as a core...
 
I think stone is for the Great Wall (and pyramids). Many are playing Raging Barbs.

I don't see why they'd do OCC though. Just for the Oxford? Doesn't make sense. You can't win culture that way. Seems like if you got a great defensive position, you'd just want to turtle up and build wonders.
 
I don't see why they'd do OCC though. Just for the Oxford? Doesn't make sense. You can't win culture that way. Seems like if you got a great defensive position, you'd just want to turtle up and build wonders.

I don't think that an OCC will win this but it does make a few things easier to handle, defense is simple (you only have one city to worry about defending) and the costs are easy to handle (in the 2 multi-city games I tried my research rate sank to 20-30% after 4 cities) so research can be done quicker.

Now that I've had a win, I'll probably try this in mutli-city to see how it goes.
 
Ok, I retract my previous rant. This one was not as hard as expected. I went OCC, so I'm sure someone (WastinTime among several) will crush my date with a multi-city.

cas
 
Dammit cas, i was sure to take #1 and after submitted i've seen your date.
What scares me is that just playing less sloppily the final turns i could have beaten you :mad:
And probably if i wasn't in a kind of bloodlush i could have saved more than 10 turns.

Anyway, my game:
Raging barbs in addition to the requested settings.
Northern edge, riverside gems and stone, some deer but mountains right E. Moved the settler 1W over a tundra deer, scout S. Founded on turn 1, settler further S, hut: BW. Copper in BFC. Worker - warrior - warrior - worker - GW. Popped some gold, met only Wang. After the GW without a single barb in sight, squeezed another worker, barracks, 2 axes and 2 settlers: 1 for horses, sheeps and gems, another for wheat and marble.
Pyramids. After the unavoidable GSpy, a GEng. 4th city to complete a sort of triangle Oracle in 575 for CS.
Moscow wasn't in the corner, say some 12 tiles W from the Eastern edge, but the actual corner was blocked by mountains if not for a 1-tile choke right outside the BFC. Barbs can't pass, AI can't reach that corner. The only way to reach my core is from south, and Sparta will be my choke point.
Used the GSpy to scout a bit, tyring (successfully) to not meet more AI. Pericles discovered me, so a good way to scout his land.
In 575 i can revolt to representation, caste and Bureau. I could also convert to Confu.
4 turns of anarchy? used the GSpy for a golden Age, crappy on some extent, but nice if you count the 4 turns saved.
After completed the CS prerequisites, with the only deviation for Agri, pottery and burnt the GE for MC.
Built Stonehenge in StPete, then Artemis right after the Oracle.
Research was about 20-30%, more than enough to keep the leadership. Construction-Currency.
Time to wipe Wang: built too many cats and too few axes, kept the nice Seoul, razed 2 crappy cities, gone. Razed a Greek crappy city, just one turn and i could have gained a worker instead.
5 cities, 3 *coastal*.
In the meantime another GE popped from StPete, Machinery was in while wiping Korea.
Great for Maces, but more from Xbows. They are devastating in the field. Moved to take Sparta, my insurance for a choke. Met a Spanish stack, suicided against my units, with a couple losses. My first GG was a M3+Morale chariot, and also my second.
Took Sparta, then Pericles fell quickly to my cats, Xbows and Maces. Just some slow-down due to huge spanish stacks to deal with. Another GE from Moscow, Engineering. Research was around 10% or even 0.
Kept Athens with Academy, 7 cities, 5 *coastal*.
Easily wiped Isabella, Kept Toledo with the GLH... a great boost. I could research better than all the combined AI at 0%.
9 cities. 7 coastal. Only Moscow and StPete were inland, but along rivers. Never built a granary, helth wasn't a problem and they can't grow much despite good food (mostly deers and wheat). Built Moai and Colossus in Seoul, settled another city between Seoul and Sparta to avoid barb interference to my troops movements.
Ramses built the AP and it was an Hindu fest. He founded it and all the AIs but Izzy were Hindu. Razed the AP city 2 turns after the elections.
But kept Thebes with the Hindu Shrine, another city with the Parthenon and 2 more: 1 was a strategic point to the West and one was the crappiest city ever seen (unless you play FfH as Illlians), but with the only source of silver and furs in BFC. More than enough to keep it. Popped another GE. Not talking about the GProphets i popped, all serttled in Moscow but one. Guilds. Knights are on line. Research was at 0 from about 600 AD. Built 2 galleys to ferry troops in China. Started thinking about some pillaging party, then realized it was a great way to open a true second front. Wiped Izzy easily, she was too busy sending suicided stacks to my lands to protect hers.
Some delay to raze an egyptian and a indian city built on impossible spots. Has to deal with barbs, too annoying and delay, more delay.
The final rush began and longbows started to appear. 2 AIs left, in any case.
13 cities, 9 coastal. This was the point where i should have move more troops to ferry in China, first of all a Medic GG. My monster stack started wiping Asoka, my small, not planned stack started wipe Mao. Whnn the 2 stacks joined the game was over, if not for the last crappy indian city which costed me 3 more turns.

well, you can see my date on the tables.
I started this game after a unsuccessful try at GotM50, followed by more (non submitted, of course) attempts.
I like the AW settings, since i feel a bit warmonger in those days.

I don't know if i will submit more games for this challenge, i think many of them are over my skills.

Anyway, i posted this 'cause i think mine was an epic game, and to share some ideas some of you can maybe find useful. :)
 
I don't know if i will submit more games for this challenge, i think many of them are over my skills.

:goodjob: Nice writeup Blubmuz (and nice game of course). I think you'll find this will be one of the harder games in the series, so if you can knock this one off you should be right for the others :mischief:
 
Dammit cas, i was sure to take #1 and after submitted i've seen your date.
What scares me is that just playing less sloppily the final turns i could have beaten you :mad:
And probably if i wasn't in a kind of bloodlush i could have saved more than 10 turns.

I wouldn't worry about it. Even if you beat my date by 30 turns you would only be in the lead for a short time. My 1480AD will be crushed by multiple imm/deity players if they make the effort.

Based on your writeup, it looks like you used 1move units. In my game, I tried to get to cuirassiers asap. I overestimated the AI research rate and kept teching along...but everything except some filler techs was fluff. I had both horse and iron in my culture OCC borders. But if I played this as normal (non-OCC) I would go for overpowered mapfinder stone/gem/deer (possible river) start and only found a 2nd/3rd city close to the capital as necessary to grab horses/iron. Build barracks/stables in those 2nd/3rd cities and workers to assist with chopping & roads. Then keep a few AI cities along the way for healing and building more units quickly.

I'm sure a good warmonger can make the mace/trebs method work faster than my cuirassier spam, but that is beyond this peaceful builder's abilities.

cas
 
cas said:
I wouldn't worry about it. Even if you beat my date by 30 turns you would only be in the lead for a short time. My 1480AD will be crushed by multiple imm/deity players if they make the effort.

Dont be so sure. If you look at the results from the earlier gauntlet (OCC/raging barbs), the best times were around 13xx, and that was with freely chosen leader and opponents. The AI in this game make it much rarer that they will be completely stomped by the barbs than if it was a choice selection of early game wimps.
From what I gather, if going for conquest, multi-city is only marginally better since it is so hard to expand without crashing the economy. But maybe trebmace to domination via simultaneously settling a bunch of cities once enough land has been cleared could finish around 1000AD.
 
How about this start I rolled for Gmajor67 which was also on a Boreal map...

Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG

Heh.

cas
 
well, I've managed to figure out how to not get eaten by barbs before getting the wall up - that's a plus. Not every AI figures that out ;)

On my latest attempt, I lost oracle and kept going - I think I'll abandon it, cause I'm not as far ahead as I want to be. I got a site with 3 gems, which sounds great... but there wasn't enough food to work them all and run specialists and I think the specialists are what makes this possible.
 
Did you guys know that climate and water level isn't standard on a boreal map? You can't change it, but it seems to take it from whatever it was set before.

I was running with high seas and cold climate... I noticed that others were running low sea level and temperate climate.

Is there a setting we should have it set at?
 
So, having low water vs. high made a huge difference - no huge waves of barbs.

Being in a corner helps.

Multiple cities help, too... but they do make for more places to defend.

Bad idea: send a stack out hunting without a stack at home.
 
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