Challenge-XIV-02

[nocho]

^ Compared to other dates mine wasn't all that impressive, but here some dates. Played lincoln Roosey btw.

In the BCs
GW 2520
Mids 1320
Oracle 900 (CS)
GLib 375
NE 200

AD
Globe 75
Oxford 500 (edu 200)
IW 1360
Some other WWs here and there (MoM, Parth, AP, UoS, Taj, HG). Took Wall Street for 5th NW, for lack of better ideas.

Apollo 1812, but I went industrialism before rocketry. When I found out about no alu, founded Alu corp in 1806.

When I got IW up in 1360 I was confident about a better date, but end game techs just took too long. I didn't feed the AIs any techs, probably should have.

 

[cas]

I'm interested to see how I stacked up on a couple of intermediate benchmarks.

here are the dates I aim for playing Lincoln. I don't always hit these dates as some of them are map-dependent. Based on memory so don't hold me to specific dates.

Education: 500BC (1 GS bulb)
Oracle->CS sling: ~1600BC
Academy: ~1700BC
Mids/Oxford/GLib/NE: I aim to finish all 4 by 1AD, but this is hard if you don't meet at least one of three conditions: 1) trade for marble from a northern AI 2) GE for your 2nd or 3rd great person or 3) have lots of forest to chop and worker steal
MoM/Globe: shortly after mids/Ox/Glib/NE
Lib->Bio sling I'm getting this around 600AD-800AD but I want it <500AD.
Great Wall: I hate building this unless there is a lot of land to fogbust and the barb trajectory is going to come through my improvements that they will pillage. I think I had to build it in my 1864AD finish. Suxxors.
Apollo: I try to start building spaceship parts by ~1600AD. Earlier is better, of course.

I've hit my limits on 2gem + 3-4 food starts...or 3gem+2 food starts. 1850's is the best possible without hut luck in those scenariors. Still trying to roll a good 3gem + 3-4food start with forest. I had one, but an AI popped 3 barbs from a hut north of the equator about 12turns into the game...and they beelined for my capital so I got screwed.

cas

 

[enKage]

Mids before oracling CS is a waste, at least with Lincoln. Beauro bonus is huge.

Also early Globe makes me scream, what do you need it for, if you have Rep specialists?

 

[cas]

Also early Globe makes me scream, what do you need it for, if you have Rep specialists?

In my games, nothing much else to build after Mids/Oxford/GLib/NE/MoM. Too early for Ironworks or NatPark. Sometimes gets interrupted by Taj. Have to build Globe eventually for rejecting AP or UN votes, so might as well put hammers into it when there is nothing else to do. Building research doesn't make much difference for those mid-game 10-15 turns.

cas

 

[nocho]

I always supposed Globe standard procedure for OCC. What kind of happy cap are you typically looking at in, say, 500AD? Given health, I don't really see why to postpone it.

 

[Qactus]

I had (with Lincoln)
BC 1160 Oracle -> Civil Service
BC 150 Great Library
AD 300 Education
AD 740 Maussollos -> first Golden Age with AD 880 Constitution and switch to Representation
AD 1240 Biology for National Park
AD 1525 Liberalism -> Railroad and Mining Inc
AD 1812 finished Apollo
AD 1937 launched with 5/5 casings, 4/5 Thrusters and 1/2 Engines -> 14 turns flight

Barb defense without the Great Wall was no problem with Combat-Shock promoted archers.

My big mistake was to not found a food corporation. So my city was too small in the end and production of the last parts turned out to be the limiting factor.

My city had three forests, one of which I had to remove because it featured uranium ore and I needed the nuclear power (didn't have a river). So with only two preserves left, national park was not too helpful (always wondered if the coal boost to Ironworks would've helped me more)

 

[enKage]

My post referred to nocho. Gllobe 75AD, before Oxford?

 

[nocho]

My post referred to nocho. Gllobe 75AD, before Oxford?

Well, I had happy issues and drama seemed a short detour before paper-edu. Remind you I played as Roos, so building it wasn't that costly. A mediocre start position might be to blame too. And my own mediocrity ofc.

However, now I've got a game going on with Lincoln and that looks more promising. No GW nor mids but Oxford built around 0 AD or so. Happy is a lot lesser problem somehow, so no Globe yet. My start is looking better though with 3 gems and a fur.

 

[nocho]

Managed to improve to 1940. Oracle CS in 975 BC, Oxford 25 AD. Went with Cereal which looks very strong on Oasis. Mining too, although hadn't realized it interferes with Alu corp. Nice start with 3 gems, fur, cow, deer, riverside and 6 grass hills, but no strat resource at all anywhere within legendary distance.

 

[zbgayumn]

So, looking at cas's game, I'm a few turns behind at Oracle, but over 30 turns behind in finishing Education. Apparently, I need to focus during that stretch and not get distracted by cheaper techs that I can't trade for. By the time Apollo came along, I was still 30 turns behind, so not too bad through there. However, the end date is 82 turns behind, so I must have lost 50+ turns in the endgame. That seems almost impossible.

I did feed techs to my neighbors, a ridiculous number of them really, but I got almost nothing in return. Wang Kon had Ecology in the end, but wouldn't trade.

One thing I was wondering about is the early use of Lib to get Bio. IIRC, Bio takes me about 10 turns to research at that point. The AI are usually so far away from Lib at that point that I can also research Physics and even Electricity and then use Lib on Radio. Does maximizing the beakers you get out of your free tech make sense, or is it worth it to get Bio 10 turns sooner?

 

[lymond]

One thing I was wondering about is the early use of Lib to get Bio. IIRC, Bio takes me about 10 turns to research at that point. The AI are usually so far away from Lib at that point that I can also research Physics and even Electricity and then use Lib on Radio. Does maximizing the beakers you get out of your free tech make sense, or is it worth it to get Bio 10 turns sooner?

Without getting into Math, I think Lib>BIO works quite well here especially if National Park is your plan. Sure, you can take a more expensive tech with it later. However, you have to consider the that you will get National Park running that much faster with more GPPs, hammers, and research from those settled specialists. Plus, the Enviro bonus if you take that. Furthermore, once you hit Lib is the perfect time to start feeding techs to the AIs, which will lead to more free techs for you later.

 

[cas]

One thing I was wondering about is the early use of Lib to get Bio. IIRC, Bio takes me about 10 turns to research at that point. The AI are usually so far away from Lib at that point that I can also research Physics and even Electricity and then use Lib on Radio. Does maximizing the beakers you get out of your free tech make sense, or is it worth it to get Bio 10 turns sooner?

My tech path could still use some improvement, but Lib->Radio sling is not good here. An argument could be made for Lib->Medicine or Lib->Electricity...because you want both Environmentalism (assuming quite a few forest preserves/NatPark) and Refrigeration (assuming GM for cereal and AI timing on corporation) asap.

If you are feeding the techs to the AI correctly, 75% of the time or more they will research Radio by the time you need it. Why waste lib on a tech you don't need right away that the AI will research ? Oooh, it is more beakers!

Try to research to rockertry and the techs the AI won't trade (all the ones with SS parts) while getting them to research as many of the other techs as possible. This still requires some luck, but if you've been feeding techs and help to the AI all game, they can actually research quite a few mid-late techs for you.

If not:

I must have lost 50+ turns in the endgame

cas

 

[cas]

1848AD assuming all the settings were correct.

Good start position (2gem, pig, deer, cow, settle on deer/river) but nothing crazy. No super-hut-luck...might have got 1 tech. DeGaulle was straight to my north, so I was able to worker steal early from him. Hatty was kind enough to spread Judaism to most of the AI, which made trading easier. Roughly 5 aluminum on the map, but lucky A.Caesar had 2 of them.

Launched with 4 thrusters / 4 casings in 1820AD. 14 turn flight, 80% chance

Could be improved with a few minor luck factors, but only by a few turns max.

I look forward to seeing someone beat that date.

cas

 

[Qactus]

Wow, 1848? Awesome!

 

[TheSunIsDark]

Best to build casings before thrusters/engines, for a better chance of success. Probably best is 5 casings but just 1 thruster and engine. Thrusters and engines aren't really needed, they take a couple of turns off but take more than that to build.

 

[cas]

Best to build casings before thrusters/engines, for a better chance of success. Probably best is 5 casings but just 1 thruster and engine. Thrusters and engines aren't really needed, they take a couple of turns off but take more than that to build.

This assumes a different tech path than is optimal for these settings. The SS builds are less of a limiting factor than the research to fusion. There are techs the AI will research and trade to me on the way to composites...so the timing has worked out best to go superconductors/genetics first. Otherwise, I'd be duplicating research the AI will do for me and it will take more turns to get to fusion for the engine build.

cas

 

[TalladegaKnight]

AP dog piles on DeGaulle, everyone is taking a city off of him, but the barbs take his last city. One of the few times I was rooting for the barbs. Fist pump.

 

[WastinTime]

Great game cas. I took a quick look at your save.
Why are you importing all that coal?
It has no effect when you build the National Park.

Also, I assume you farmed everything after launch to get a higher score. Before that is was workshops, yes? and before that, forest preserves.

I was hoping to come up with a way-outside-the-box strategy, but I'm not sure it will work on Noble.

 

[cas]

Great game cas. I took a quick look at your save.
Why are you importing all that coal?
It has no effect when you build the National Park.

Also, I assume you farmed everything after launch to get a higher score. Before that is was workshops, yes? and before that, forest preserves.

I was hoping to come up with a way-outside-the-box strategy, but I'm not sure it will work on Noble.

Does coal not count toward mining Inc when you have NP ? I assumed it did...never really double-checked it. You can import coal for building railroads, so I thought it would also carry over to mining, but oh well. Good to know.

yes, forest preserves after Bio sling. Then I double-pre-build tiles 1 turn away from both farms/workshops or farms/watermills. Finish the workshops/watermills to chop into space parts then farm to stabilize pop after launch.

cas

 

[WastinTime]

I looked at your mid-game save. Not as many forests as I expected. I usually have 10+.
15 is not unusual.

Do you chop some and then hope to re-grow them after preserves?

How many preserves did you get by the end?