Changes in rules (BIC) file for patch 1.17

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Sirian
40 turns is excessive, even more so for the draft than the whip.

The draft penalty was already TOO HIGH at 20 turns (the Civilopedia said 10, which sounds just about right),

Agreed. Think of the passage of time, does it make sense for a city to stay mad about pop-rushing for 40 turns multiplied by 20 or 10 or even 5 years per turn? Would they stay mad for 2 CENTURIES?

What's even worse than the penalty in your own cities, is the penalty added to captured AI cities when they draft. This is only going to encourage even more razing, since who is going to want to inherit a city plagued by leftover draft/whip unhappiness from AI actions -- unhappiness which is NEVER going to go away now.

This is somthing that really aggravated me when I first saw it, and you're right, either people will change this in the .bic file or they'll raze cities even more often than they do now. I mean its ridiculous. I took a city away from a despotism into my democracy, with 5 or 6 luxuries because the citry was already connected to my trade network, plus 10% income to luxuries, yet HALF the population was still angry over something their PRIOR ruler had done to them. I hope they change this behavior, I think the anger should stop when a city changes hands, but in the meantime I'm changing this in the .bic file.

 

[Dirk Aurel]

royfurr,I can only verify this from modern times,am in a game at the moment which takes place in 1966AD,so chances are low that I can give info on Blitz armies with horsemen etc.
But I do have a leftover cavalry army,will let it attack the Greeks, and post the results here.These cavarly units in my army are >not< modified to Blitz in my .bic file.

I do hope zzcczz is wrong,because that would be far fr funny, imagine an army of samurais or cavalry they would overrun every city on the continent!Armies would be more powerful and important but this would require a totally different approach to the game,not even mentioning that Civs which fight a lot,thereby getting lots of GL and armies would have a huge advantage!!

...nono this can´t be right.

 

[Nero Would]

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn
Gives +2 food where?

Sorry. "Game gives +2 food" is a little ambiguous. What I meant is that the bonus resource called "Game" gives +2 food to tiles where it occurs. I'll update the first post to clarify.

 

[Sirian]

Theory of Evolution now works like it did in Civ1/2: You get the tech you are currently researching for free, plus one more that you select. No more lowest-value techs, and no more HAVING to get Communism and Espionage in every game because ToE would force you into them. I like this change a lot.

- Sirian

 

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Nero Would

Sorry. "Game gives +2 food" is a little ambiguous.

Doh! Sorry. Ambiguous is an overstatment, since it apparently was only ambiguous to me.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by royfurr
quote:

Shaitan and Dirk Aurel, you guys tested this? What were your conditions (Horse or Calvary ect? All units in the army where of these types with NO slow units, or some slow units?? etc)

My test was middle ages with an army comprised of knights only. They did not get the blitz ability.

 

[Badluck]

since the patch i have noticed AI is disbanding worker when you kill some of is cities and he see they have no chance of escape, before the patch AI wasn't doing it.

Also the AI woN,t allies as eeasily with you now, even if they have 1 citi left they won't alli they often wait an extra 10 turn. This way we can no longer attack and make peace asking for some tech a lot of time in a row until you catch up to him... since they wait a really long time before wanting to be alli with you again.

That's what i noticed.
Anyone can confirm?

 

[Badluck]

Also Ai civ will now only respawn one time, after they will be definitively dead, and they will respawn even with no settler in game.

Anyone else noticed that?




"Pay attention to your enemies, for they are the first to discover your mistakes" - Antisthenes

 

[Rowan]

Probably a dumb question,but.........if one downloads 1.7,does 1.7 cover all previous updates(ie.previous downloads)
[dance] [dance]

 

[DrainoChild]

In the patch it lists that you can now completely suppress a captured city from revolting due to culture with enough armies in it. Anyone got an idea of how many "enough" is? I take it this will be based on population of that city and if it was their capital. Also does the number to keep them in line go down? Any comments on this would be appreciated as I have had a size 10 city with 20!!! ground units revolt before.

 

[Dodgy Geezer]

Drainochild. A clip from elsewhere on this board. Don't overlook the 'full control of their city radius' comment:
***************
From Soren Johnson

Pop rushing: Pop rushing has not been eliminated but... You can not sacrifice over half the population of your city anymore as city unhappiness can "go negative"

Number of units to supress cultural reversion: cities with 2 or 3 foreign nationals and full control of their city radius probably will be under no risk with 4 to 6 units

There have been a lot of improvements to the AI, most of which are not really appropriate for the readme (you wouldn't want us spoiling the surprise, would you?)

Odds for mobile units being able to withdraw: it is 50/50. Experience for the attacker and defender can skew these odds...

***************

 

[Nero Would]

According to Jeff Morris (Firaxis) in this thread on Apolyton. The version of the patch that was posted to www.firaxis.com on 15 Feb is not the same as the version that was made available on 14 Feb. The difference is not only the inclusion of the correct version of the editor (which Firaxis explained at the time), it also includes a different civ3mod.bic. The 15 Feb version of the BIC file removes the change that made all units available to Barbarians (and resulted in advanced units like Armies appearing in goody huts).

I have updated my post earlier in this thread to indicate that this change may or may not be in your version of the BIC file depending on when you downloaded the patch.

 

[Zouave]

Has anyone noticed that. . .

After 1.17, in the Editor, it is no longer posible to lower the ridiculously high rates for all Espionage-related functions?? That is what it seems to be, and I have checked with various mods.

The costs were absolutely EXORBITANT for minimally effective spying. Now we can't even change it. WHY, Firaxis??

I think it STINKS.

I'll have to change the costs for the Espionage advance, and the Intelligence Agency Small Wonder, either so low it will compensate, or make it so high no one sane would want it.

I want to be able to edit Espionage!! I am going back to 1.16.

 

[zzcczz]

Okay, here's the deal about army blitzing:

I've found that Modern Armor can always blitz, but on occasion both calvary and tank armies can too. What I've discovered (and probably the reason why some people haven't been able to do this), is that there seems to be some sort of random chance (kind of like when fast units roll to retreat now). So as long as your army is comprised of ONE kind of unit, and it has movement points left, there is a chance that it will be able to attack again.

BTW my .BIC files have not been modified. Anyway, I hope this clears things up a little bit.

 

[Grey Fox]

The only units that can "blitz" (or attacking twice) is Tank(and Panzer) and Modern Armor right?

Horsemen, Knights(And all the UU's), Cavalry(and Cossacks) haven't got the "Blitz" ability.

But every fast unit has the "Withdraw"-ability.

 

[Carbon_Copy]

Originally posted by Zouave

I'll have to change the costs for the Espionage advance, and the Intelligence Agency Small Wonder, either so low it will compensate, or make it so high no one sane would want it.

If you are going to mess with the Intelligence Agency's shield cost, make it lower rather than higher. Why? If you made it a huge shield cost, then it could be exploited as an extremely useful prebuilder for Industrial and Modern wonders. As it is, the 1000-shield palace is plenty for a non-capital city to chew on while you wait to research Electronics for Hoover or Fission for the UN, adding another huge small wonder will just make it stupid-easy to prebuild wonders in the capital, too (or prebuild for multiple wonders, like ToE AND Hoover at once...with the new ToE, I anticipate people choosing Atomic Theory and Electronics most of the time, and going from Scientific Method to Hoover Dam in the space of one turn would just be CRUEL).

Plus, if you made the tech research cost on Espionage high, the stupid AI's WILL spend the effort to research it, leaving the player further ahead in tech during the era where players tend to pull ahead from the pack.

 

[royfurr]

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn



Agreed. Think of the passage of time, does it make sense for a city to stay mad about pop-rushing for 40 turns multiplied by 20 or 10 or even 5 years per turn? Would they stay mad for 2 CENTURIES?





This is somthing that really aggravated me when I first saw it, and you're right, either people will change this in the .bic file or they'll raze cities even more often than they do now. I mean its ridiculous. I took a city away from a despotism into my democracy, with 5 or 6 luxuries because the citry was already connected to my trade network, plus 10% income to luxuries, yet HALF the population was still angry over something their PRIOR ruler had done to them. I hope they change this behavior, I think the anger should stop when a city changes hands, but in the meantime I'm changing this in the .bic file.

Regarding Unhappiness "inherited" from a previous owner civ's whipping/drafting (when you take over the city), HOW/WHERE, in the bic file, do you cheange this???? I'd REALLY like to be able to cheange this. Simply razing cities for game reasons kinda depresses me. OTOH, if the civ had viciously attacked me or broken a treaty with me ...

It would seem to me that when you take over a city, if your culture is "superior" AND you suddenly are providing more luxury resources and/or CIv wide Entertainment (Happiness Rate), that people would be HAPPIER and grateful to you, compared to their vicious former masters who had whipped them. You've Liberated them, after all ...


ON another note, THANK YOU to Shaitan and to Dirk Aurel for posting back in reply to my question about Armies blitizing when they have horse and other fast ancient units included in them. WHEW! Looks like that is NOT happening, that perhaps only MODERN BLITZ capable units provide armies with actual blitz ability. Had you been able to do that with Horse or war chariots etc, man!!! OTHO, zzcczz says armies composed of Calvarly CAN blitz ...

 

[Nero Would]

Originally posted by royfurr
Regarding Unhappiness "inherited" from a previous owner civ's whipping/drafting (when you take over the city), HOW/WHERE, in the bic file, do you cheange this???? I'd REALLY like to be able to cheange this. Simply razing cities for game reasons kinda depresses me. OTOH, if the civ had viciously attacked me or broken a treaty with me ...

As far as I know, there isn't anything in the bic file that controls the "inheritance" of unhappiness. You can change the number of turns the unhappiness lasts (in the Citizen Mood section of the General Settings tab), but of course, that would not just affect inherited unhappiness.

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by Carbon_Copy


If you are going to mess with the Intelligence Agency's shield cost, make it lower rather than higher. Why? If you made it a huge shield cost, then it could be exploited as an extremely useful prebuilder for Industrial and Modern wonders. As it is, the 1000-shield palace is plenty for a non-capital city to chew on while you wait to research Electronics for Hoover or Fission for the UN, adding another huge small wonder will just make it stupid-easy to prebuild wonders in the capital, too (or prebuild for multiple wonders, like ToE AND Hoover at once...with the new ToE, I anticipate people choosing Atomic Theory and Electronics most of the time, and going from Scientific Method to Hoover Dam in the space of one turn would just be CRUEL).

Plus, if you made the tech research cost on Espionage high, the stupid AI's WILL spend the effort to research it, leaving the player further ahead in tech during the era where players tend to pull ahead from the pack.

OK, whatever works. I'd just as soon get rid of Espionage if I can't lower the absurdly high costs for spying which I never will spend (or waste). Just not cost effective.

For 1.18, Firaxis, bring back the Editing in Diplomats and Spies.


And, yes, the AI is "stupid". I was wondering if it would do that; you confirmed it.


Soooo, I suppose I will greatly lower the cost for Espionage and the Intell Agency as I likely will go back to 1.17 from 1.16 owing to the stack movement feature.

 

[Ed Cogburn]

Originally posted by Nero Would

As far as I know, there isn't anything in the bic file that controls the "inheritance" of unhappiness. You can change the number of turns the unhappiness lasts (in the Citizen Mood section of the General Settings tab), but of course, that would not just affect inherited unhappiness.

Right, I meant I would lower the time length for unhappiness. There isn't a way to stop inherited unhappiness, that's my complaint. Changing the length of time is not a major consideration to me because I don't draft or whip, so the only unhappiness I see, aside from a democracy at war, is from inherited unhappiness from drafting/whipping.