Chieftain vs. Regent

[Metropolis Man]

I just started my first Regent game with Greece — incredible starting location.....fresh water, two cows and wheat nearby as well as outcroppings galore and gold in mountains. Things are going fine but I just checked the histograph and the only two civs I contacted are like 50 points ahead of me! I don't think more than 75 turns have even taken place!

On Chieftain there's no question this probably would not be the case. Every game I played on Chieftain I was always in 1st — at least until Middle Ages. So should I be worried? Aside from the 4 vs 2 content laborers between Chieftain and Regent what are some other concerns?

I usually like to pursue Wonders for cultural purposes — is the AI now going to build them at ridiculous rates? Thanks.

 

[scoutsout]

The AI won't build wonders at "ridiculous" rates, but they can (theoretically) build them as fast as you now. Depending on the level, the AI receive a production (and research) penalty or discount relative to the human player. At Chieftain, the AI get a 20% Penalty. The Spearman that you build for 20 shields costs the AI 24. At Warlord, it's a 10% penalty. There is no penalty or discount at Regent, the human and AI are "even". At monarch the AI gets a 10% discount on everything (an AI spear costs 18 Shields), and so on.

Don't worry about the 50 points. You can easily overtake them... but you will find that wonder builds must be prioritized and (sometimes) passed on. See Ision's "Wonder Addiction" article in the War Academy.

At Regent you will have to play a more focused game, and your choices will get a little tougher - but you should find the game more challenging, and the wins more rewarding.

 

[Metropolis Man]

At Regent you will have to play a more focused game, and your choices will get a little tougher - but you should find the game more challenging, and the wins more rewarding.

That's what I'm hoping for. It was a rude awakening to find civil disorder with only 3 people in a town compared to 5 on Chieftain.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Actually, the AI pays an amazing 100% percent extra on Chieftain. The 20% is on Warlord.

 

[scoutsout]

Actually, the AI pays an amazing 100% percent extra on Chieftain. The 20% is on Warlord.

Well then ... it appears I'm badly mistaken! I guess I should play Chieftain more often.

 

[Arathorn]

I'm pretty sure the penalty is 100% on Chieftan and 50% on Warlord.

There are some other subtle differences to make Chieftain way easier. Running negative cash on Chieftain, for example, doesn't cost anything. The bonus vs. barbarians goes from something like 800% on Chieftain to 200% on Regeant (exact numbers may be off, but it's still a significant bonus).

Mostly, though, the AI will build and grow at twice the speed of Chieftain. Semi-solid play should be sufficient to beat Regeant, though.

Arathorn

 

[Globo]

See Ision's "Wonder Addiction" article in the War Academy.

At Regent you will have to play a more focused game, and your choices will get a little tougher - but you should find the game more challenging, and the wins more rewarding.

Yep Ision's article "Wonder Addiction" helped me a lot. I am struggling with Monarch right now and in my current game I just focused on city improvements and some early wars with a well planned TOE being my first wonder. I'm entering the modern age now and victory is almost certain.

Whatever the outcome of your game Metropolis Man expect some bumpy rides changing a level. If your getting bored with sure victories on a level it's well worth the frustration that comes with changing. I just never had a real space RACE before Monarch just to give one example.

 

[Metropolis Man]

Whatever the outcome of your game Metropolis Man expect some bumpy rides changing a level. If your getting bored with sure victories on a level it's well worth the frustration that comes with changing. I just never had a real space RACE before Monarch just to give one example.

So building certain wonders that aid scientific research — like The Great Library and Newton's University — would be a bad idea if one was pursuing a tech race? How could they be bad?

 

[homeyg]

Wonders aren't bad, it's just that players allow themselves to rely or depend on those wonders to be able to win. If they don't get the wonder, they don't win. Ision's article is trying to teach you to learn new strategies so you don't have to rely on those wonders to win. The reason is because on higher levels you rarely do get the good wonders.

 

[scoutsout]

@homeyg: You just nailed it on Ision's article.

@Metropolis Man: Your argument regarding scientific wonders that "help" science is a common perception. While you are right with respect to Newton's U., I disagree that the Great Library "helps" science. For the average Regent-Monarch level player, there is a HUGE risk that the Great Library will actually hurt science. The reason is simple: by becoming accustomed to getting techs for "free", players are prevented from learning and practicing sound tech strategies.

The Great Library probably keeps more players at Monarch level or below than any other feature of the game. Read that again, I am not exaggerating.

Try this: Build no wonders before .... Copernicus' Observatory. Learn to put together a settler factory, and focus on the expansion phase of the game. When you've got that solid, work on your early warmongering. Both of these things are MUCH easier when you're not plowing hundreds of shields from your most productive city into a wonder that will expire anyway.

 

[al_thor]

Solid advice all around. Wonder Addiction is a true problem for 'lower-level' players. It wasn't until I overcame my Great Library Addiction that I was able to step into Emporer level and above. Now I let the AI build it and will often gift the builder all the way to Education, making the Wonder obsolete as soon as possible, getting a laugh out of it at the same time.

One other piece of advice (certainly not an original piece): BUILD MORE WORKERS - the single-most crucial unit in the entire game.
Next, DO NOT AUTOMATE those workers!! Learn to utilize them in an optimal way. There are plenty of articles (again, the War Acadmey) that can help you in this regard.

 

[Metropolis Man]

Thanks, guys — I'll try and break the "wonder addiction!" But, ya gotta admit — when you hear that sound and see the picture, it's pretty cool.

And I definitely don't automate workers anymore thanks to another thread I started. Actually, something's been sticking in my mind on worker actions during Despotism — let's say a city's first laborer works a tile which yields 2 shields. Is there any point and having a worker build a mine there because my understanding is during Despotism it would still only yield 2 shields.

Same thing with a food tile that would initially yield 2 food. Why irigate during Despotism if you would still only net 2 food?

Your thoughts?

 

[IbnSina]

Yes, you definitely want to work those tiles - those provide the only opportunities for you to go over the two-shield limit in despotism. For example, a grassland with a cow is worth three food in despotism, but if you irrigate it, it is worth (drum roll) four food. That's a good start toward a settler factory, and world domination. When you have those bonus resources, they allow you to go over the ordinary limits of despotism. Thus, those are the -first- tiles you work.

 

[scoutsout]

Thanks, guys — I'll try and break the "wonder addiction!" But, ya gotta admit — when you hear that sound and see the picture, it's pretty cool.

True, it's cool. But so is this:

*****Siege of Rome
Vet horse flawlessly kills reg spear
Elite horse kills reg spear (1/5)
Elite horse flawlessly kills reg spear
Vet horse retreats to reg spear (2/3) and it's the last spear!
2/3 spear kills Vet horse, promotes
Vet horse kills 2/4 spear, and the city is ours...

 

[eldar]

Re: Wonder Addiction.

Two Monarch games I played recently:

COTM02: As the Dutch, I was always ahead, and built a Super Science City in The Hague with GL, Copernicus, Newton's, Shakey's, ToE, Hoover, UN.

GOTM32: As the Aztecs, I didn't build (or capture) a single Wonder - I was way behind in tech for the majority of the game and Wonders were just an un-needed distraction.

I won both games (UN and SS respectively).

Horses for courses... In COTM02, I only started building the GL because I got Lit first, didn't trade it, and ran out of otherwise useful builds in what was a land-locked city on an island.

Neil.

 

[morchuflex]

If you play on advanced levels (that is Emperor and above), the AI will beat you most of the time at Wonders, especially earlier ones (Pyramids...). Since one day or another the need of a greater challenge will make you play on these advanced levels, why not try and play now as you'll have to sooner or later? That is, focus on the most critical wonders and forget the rest.
There are not that many critical wonders. I personnally play on archipelago, making the Lighthouse an obvious critical one. If you plan to win peacefully, try to get Sistine, Bach and, later, Hoover. The rest is next to insignificant. Of course, if you are a warmonger, your critical wonders may be different... But anyway, you'll only get a few, so choose wisely.
And forget about the Great Library. It's useless. Most of the time I discover Education a few turns after some stupid CP completes it.

 

[homeyg]

Also, think of this:

You can get any wonder you want (if you are even or ahead in tech, maybe even if you are behind) with smart thinking and a well planned prebuild, but you shouldn't waste your precious shield on all of them. Especially in the early game. Your shields are better spent on troops/workers/settlers.

 

[Mech]

I find the AI a bit stupid on building wonders; it builds them even if the city takes 40+ turns to build it. I usually don’t build wonders unless it takes <20 turns or if I have 2 leaders early (always use the first for an army).But I find myself addicted to Theory of Evolution+Hoover Dam I built both in every regent game I have won .By the time I get to scientific method I have my capital giving me 70+ shields per turn and with all other improvements already built. I build ToE and use it to get to electronics and use it to build HD, both take about a dozen turns. Also since I get to two techs first I can trade em' for a lot of goodies

 

[morchuflex]

I find myself addicted to Theory of Evolution+Hoover Dam I built both in every regent game I have won .By the time I get to scientific method I have my capital giving me 70+ shields per turn and with all other improvements already built. I build ToE and use it to get to electronics and use it to build HD, both take about a dozen turns. Also since I get to two techs first I can trade em' for a lot of goodies

Yes, I love to do that, too. The AI stupidly goes after nationalism, communism etc. while I take a big lead thanks to TOE.