Chinese strategy

[ezzlar]

Here is my try at a Chinese strategy. It is based on the many strategies of youtien. I am not going for the UHVs but they can easily be fitted. It is not too luck dependent either. You need some luck with the tribal villages since some gifts of coins are required.

General aim is to meet Mongols with Curassiers or Riflemen at 1200 AD.

City placement order

Lyuoyang 2E1S as capital. Hangzhou east of rice at coast. Naha on single spot island near Japan. Beijing on north coast west of fish. City on south coast next to bronze. Beitou west of incense (this will be the only Chinese city that gets the Silk route).

Later in the game you can settle Chittagong near the jungled hill next to India. Mine the hill under the mountain and it becomes passable. Great way to invade India later on when they have developed. Make sure they are able to build plantations and found the holy city buildings.

City production

In capital. Start with worker, warrior, warrior (change), settler, warrior (finish), taixue, warrior, barracks, settler, wonder, whatever

Hangzhou. Taixue (change), galley, work boat (send to Naha pearls asap), taixue (finish), wonder, work boats

Naha. The Great Cothon, harbor, whatever

Beijing. Ishtar Gate, taixue, walls. The goal of Beijing is to make culture reach the spot 2NE of the city so the barb city doesnt spawn around 280 BC. So Beijing should be settled quite early. After Beijing halt city expansion until economy has improved. Meaning Calendar and Currency usually.

Rest, whatever.

Tech order

Animal husbandry, writing (for taixue), fishing, sailing (for the galley), the wheel (worker entertainment), mysticism, polytheism (for pantheon civic), priesthood (for Oracle, masonry (for stone), mathematics (must be finished before Roman spawn, otherwise they found Confucianism), bronze working, pottery (so Metal Casting can be chosen from Oracle), calendar, currency, monotheism (for Organized religion, switch to Confucianism), construction then go for the monarchy/guilds/gunpowder/banking line. Play at will. Curassiers are simple compared to Rifles in 1200AD, you can get them around 800-900 AD.

Construction/improvements

Improve capital wheat and pigs, mine the hill. Rice near Shanghai. Roads when time is given. Chop forests for Naha when culture expands. Chop forests for Shanghai if needed. Capital should not be needing chops but do if you feel like.

Hopefully you found Confucianism in Naha, otherwise send the missionary there for culture expansion.

Gameplay

Send first warrior west over north mountains, down indus valley, pick up tribal village, pass Babylon to west, pick up Anatolia tribal village, continue west, pick up balkan tribal village, continue north west and pick up western europe tribal village, also check Denmark for tribal village, go south west to Iberia for tribal village, trail back north over finland for scandinavian tribal village, go back and park your warrior on the greek peninsula.

Second warrior will arrive at Afrosaib around turn 35. Make sure to park him in the mountain 1-2 turns so the city spawns first (if he spawns in city area he will be teleported back to capital). Declare war on the city and pass around it down south to Indus Valley. Continue west over the mountains and arrive on the north western tip of the Babylonian capital. If there is a lone worker on the sheep, capture it and send it back over india, collect tribal village and go home to China. If not, declare war and sit on the sheep. If it is improved, pillage. Do not enter area 1 square of city, the bowmen will then attack. If a bowman approaches, retreat to hills to the north west, then go back to the sheep. Babylonia will usually never get the Oracle then so you can take it easy with wonder production.

Third or fourth warrior follows settler on galley produced in Naha. Picks up the two tribal villages in Japan and then just guards Naha (from unhappiness).

When the capital Taixue is finished, assign two scientists, when the great scientist pops you can bulb alphabet if you like. It is not mandatory but good for tech trade. However, you need trade routes to trade! Otherwise settle him/her.

When the Oracle is built you can go for peace with the Babylonians if you like.

When Colossus is built switch to Confucianism asap or religious diversity and unhappiness will collapse you. Dont build pagan temples. The arrival of religions will kill them and then you get one angry face for losing it and one angry face for the unhappy religious citizens. When you are Confucian you can build the Great wall helping with the barbs. Just make sure the borders have popped to the distance you need. It only works for the borders at the moment of finishing it.

Also dont build Hanging Gardens, it is a unhappiness trap as population is increased. You must use Hinder growth in your cities during early game. Dont forget to turn it off once you get the calendar resources.

Once you get the game going and have other religions in your cities you can change state religion for a few turns and complete wonders unique to the religion.

Important wonders are Oracle, The great Cothon, Colossus, The great Canal, The great Wall, Swedagon Paya (for Secularism). Pyramids and Sphinx are usually built around turn 41 and 49, very hard to get first. The great Lighthouse depends on what the greeks do.

Also, I dont use slavery for this build. Happy playing! If you have further ideas, please advise!

 

[mrrandomplayer]

I've been trying this strategy, but it always feels like I'm a few turns too slow. What's the purpose of not using the first Great Scientist to bulb Math? Getting the Cothon in time also feels super difficult. How should one micromanage to get research quickly enough? My first guess would be to always work the tiles with the most commerce, especially in the early game.

 

[ezzlar]

You will get Mathematics first with the above tech order. No need to rush it since you only get unhappiness from the Religion spread.

I have changed the Building order of the Cities. Go for Beijing on Coast as second city. This will ease up your military situation a lot due to the increased cultural spread once the great wall is up. And absolutely no barb city NE of Beijing.

I almost never micro management city yields.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

I'm having an incredibly tough time getting the research on time. What difficulty are you playing on? Most particularly, I absolutely cannot start building the Great Cothon before turn 70, and can't pop Naha's borders until very late. Carthage or Greece usually gets the Cothon by turn 90-100.

EDIT: I'm playing on Monarch difficulty.

 

[ezzlar]

You must get enough Gold from the goodie huts to run 100% science all the time. You cannot go Beyond 3 or 4 Cities too Early either since maintenance will kill your economy.

Typically you need around 3-4 huts with Gold.

Edit: getting Naha and Cothon is somewhat luck. If confucianism spawns there and you get workers to chop both forests you might get it. Most of the time I dont get it.

 

[Jipsu]

The following UHV guide was tested on August/September 2017 version, normal speed, Regent and Monarch. It builds on previous Luoyang guides and boils down to maximising commerce. You need to have eight cities for UHV and you need around/above 30 military to defeat the Mongols so you need gold more than production or growth.

You don't need foreign wonders or gold from goody huts, although the latter helps keep science rate up. On Monarch without gold you'll probably found Confucianism too late to stop Buddhism from spreading but a few extra missionaries can fix that. Workers, tech rate, border spread and city growth work really well in unison on Regent and probably less so on Monarch.

Early game: two cities, writing, calendar, military, and more cities

There's lots of possibilities but Luoyang 2E1S is really good (extra production from plains hill, river gives trade route, central position reduces maintenance, can reach Tea without extra city. There's lots of food potential and production than is shared with your next cities and can be micromanaged.

• Research towards Writing starting with Pottery and Property. After that, go for Calendar. You'll need Leverage and/or Seafaring to start connecting resources. If you have extra workers you might grab Leverage before calendar to start building roads first.
• Build worker-scout-start militia and switch to settler when pop 2-finish militia. Second settler when pop 3. When in doubt build more militia or maybe one or two archers (promote along guerrilla line).
• Worker farms wheat to NE, then pastures the pig, then either camps the deer or cottages the remaining wheat. Cottage might be better.

Settler founds Shanghai on rice: three food start and can work stone and deer/pig when capitol doesn't need them. Cottage the grasslands, leave plain trees to the south for health and lumbermills.

• Switch to Despotism while settler is moving. Take Slavery if you have it but Deification is probably a waste.
• Scout and militias do whatever but make sure to have garrison when cities hit 4 pop (5 for capitol).
• Shanghai builds worker, then militia or Monument. Shanghai's worker builds cottages until it can start plantations or roads leading to them.

Spoiler Example T31 :

I like to found Lanzhou 2N2W next, between the mountains on future iron. It will be size 7 or 8 at best but it can reach incense, give you your second Great Scientist, produce army and defend. You need Seafaring or road to connect the incense to your other cities though.

• Lanzhou works the 3 production tile to rush Monument. Luoyang's worker moves to pasture the northern pig for Lanzhou, then southern pig and then incense or roads: prioritize hill NE of Lanzhou and the tile between Luoyang and Lanzhou.
• Build libraries in Luoyang and Lanzhou. Shanghai follows when you feel like it. Whip freely but remember to work the cottages - they are your lifeline.
• Luoyang starts working two scientists. Try to get Lanzhou on one or two scientists when/before you get your first Great Scientist (settle in Luoyang; your second GS will ideally build Academy in Luoyang when you discover Philosophy).

When you anticipate positive income at 60% science rate build two settlers. You should be ready to settle around turn 80-85. I like to send one south to Guangzhou (settle on bananas for extra food, unlocks stone if Shanghai has trouble with culture) and one to Zhongdu 1W of coast, between pig and horses.

• You won't be able to defend most tiles north and northwest of Zhongdu so improving them is not important. Concentrate on defending incense and silk with archers and repair horses as needed.
• If you can, try to follow up quickly with a city north of wheat next to Korea. A barbarian city on Mongolia's flip zone will appear if you're not fast enough.
• When you feel you have enough military and nothing too pressing to build consider granaries and forges.
• Confucianism appears automatically around T110 but it's better to found it earlier to prevent Buddhism from spreading.
• Adopt clergy and redistribution, consider citizenship and one of the society civics unless you're on slavery already. Monarchy might be tempting but I find the flexibility of whipping more useful. You'll have some unhappiness but nothing too severe.

Spoiler Example T87 and T112 :

Mid- and lategame: barbarians, temples and army to defeat the Mongols

My preferred seventh and eighth cities are Kunming 1E of gold in the south and Qiqihaer in Manchuria 1E of northern horse. Kunming has good production and will give copper but Qiqihaer will be a late city so prepare to chop wood. Your science rate will fluctuate between 20-60% even with late Qiqihaer but that's ok.

After stone is hooked even Shanghai can build the Great Wall. Do it. I've built Terracotta Army in Luoyang but Lanzhou or Zhongdu might be better as the capitol has to build economy buildings too. Terracotta gives bonus to only one city and obsoletes at Feudalism so it might not be as useful as it seems. More experience from barbs is nice I guess. In genera though, this is calm before the storm so skip buildings and build military. Even temples can wait. Science and gold buildings will be built mainly in Luoyang, Shanghai and maybe Guangzhou. Others focus on Jails and defence.

Your first adversaries will be light swordsmen from the mountain passes near Tibet and an elephant soon after. Fortified guerrilla archers/cho-ko-nu are enough but use swordsmen and a spearman if feasible. Might want to run 0% science for a turn to upgrade militia.

Spoiler Example T146 :

Next are horse archers and later keshik from the west and north. Defend with archers/cho-ko-nu, horse archers/lancers and an odd spearman. Defend the resources but otherwise let them pillage; the core of your economy is elsewhere. Dunhuang is irrelevant but if you want to spice things up later on you can capture it (the safe option is to rebuild it 1W on historical terrain if you want cotton).

Do whatever it takes to get UHV1 done in time. If possible, try to build the first Confucian Guozijian early in Shanghai and the second one in Luoyang. Taoist Gong can go anywhere.

Research Machinery for the Grand Canal, adopt Feudalism and maybe Monasticism after UHV1, research towards Paper and Compass, get lumbermills. If you feel good about your tech rate don't settle your third great scientist but save it for golden age. You should have UHV2 done before the Mongols arrive and afterwards you don't really need tech. I also find great prophet wonders to be unnecessary.

Be ready to attack the Mongols if they declare war. Prebuild a road northwest across the narrow desert and don't let them come to you. Army composition is flexible: 30-40 units total, 25-45% cho-ko-nu, 25-45% open terrain horse archers, 25-45% lancers. Siege and cho-ko-nu go first.

Spoiler Example T240 :

UHV3 is the easiest but it's easy to get sidetracked and difficult to guarantee four different great people for the last golden age. Remember that the goal is to finish four golden ages, starting the last one on time is not enough! Consider farming some of your towns but don't go bankrupt. Disband excess troops. Build the Forgotten Palace. Isolationism might be tempting but costs money.

Spoiler Going bankrupt but I don't care :

 

[Fresol]

Forgotten Palace

Forbidden Palace, man, forbidden.

 

[TsarAndreas]

Is there a trick to avoiding economic stagnation with China? (I'm playing 1.14.)

I find that I build up my military to face the Mongols, defeat them and occupy QaraQorum, and am then unchallenged in East Asia. However, I have to have most of my cities running Wealth until well into the Industrial era in order to stay afloat - the occasional trade deal allows me to run a deficit and accumulate some science.

Do I need to disband my armies after the mongol invasion?

Do I need to beeline to any particular civics or techs?

Any advice welcome, as always.

Thanks

 

[star15389]

In 1.14 it's easy to have an insurmountable tech lead by 1190. How many units are you building, how many/what cities do you have, how quickly are you getting to Calendar and Machinery?

 

[TsarAndreas]

A warrior for each city early on, then mainly spearmen (and a few axemen) to deal with the early barbarians. And then nothing but Cho-Ko-Nus once they come online. In my most recent game I think I had roughly 6-8 warriors, 12-16 spearmen/pikemen and 20-30 Cho-ko-nus at the time of the Mongol invasion.

I have ten cities, but I'm not sure how quickly I'm getting to Calendar and Machinery. Calendar is normally a priority once I've got Compass, but iirc I think my financial problems start to slow me down when I'm researching Machinery. My overall tech rate is still okay, as I have 2 scientists wherever possible, but I have to lower the slider to compensate for the lack of funds.

To be fair, I have yet to try Ezzlar's suggested research path yet, so I may find that that helps.

"Animal husbandry, writing (for taixue), fishing, sailing (for the galley), the wheel (worker entertainment), mysticism, polytheism (for pantheon civic), priesthood (for Oracle, masonry (for stone), mathematics (must be finished before Roman spawn, otherwise they found Confucianism), bronze working, pottery (so Metal Casting can be chosen from Oracle), calendar, currency, monotheism (for Organized religion, switch to Confucianism), construction then go for the monarchy/guilds/gunpowder/banking line. Play at will. Curassiers are simple compared to Rifles in 1200AD, you can get them around 800-900 AD."

 

[star15389]

Better to tech Calendar ASAP, as soon as you have Math, which should be very early. Ignore the Oracle; Math and Calendar should come right after basic worker techs, not just for happiness but also because plantations are unmatched sources of commerce in the early game. Bronze Working should be first, right after Writing, so you can chop Workers and Settlers while running as many scientists as possible. This becomes less important after Calendar when you switch to a more cottage heavy strategy. It can make sense to detour to Hunting and send a Scout around SE Asia and India to Persia; usually them, Babylon, or Egypt will trade Iron Working and you can also get Monarchy and Horseback Riding. Usually you'll want to use your GS to bulb Alpha in this case. Can also make sense to settle it and self-tech Alpha, though that delays Machinery. Metal Casting/Machinery should be right after Construction. Very rarely you can trade for MC with Greece, Rome or Carthage. After Machinery you should tech Currency, then Feudalism (Levy Armies >>> CoL) -> Civil Service. After that your economy should be roaring and you can tech whatever

What cities do you build, and what order? Lots of different ways to do this, but some ways are just wrong. Settling in place, for example, is way worse than moving 2E to Luoyang, the best city in the game. How quickly do you get to five cities? Eight? It's very possible to have eight cities and Machinery teched in the BCs; if you make a detour to Monotheism and found Zoro you can even finish the UHV before the Mongolian spawn. That, incidentally, is best dealt with by building twenty or so so Cuirs, not forty CKNs.