Chinese unification scenario strategies?

[romelus]

i just gave this a first try. played the state of chu on monarchy difficulty. there are now 17 turns left and i've only conquered 5 qi cities and 1 qing city. all of my neighbours (qing, han, qi) have defensive pacts together and i have given up, but will give it a 2nd try. here are some observations and experiences

1. i first noticed that even though historically chu was supposed to be the biggest state, all the states in the scenario actually start off with pretty equal territory sizes, about 4 cities each. chu was also supposed to have a huge army due to its size, but i think all states started with comparable armies. i was disappointed by this

2. i thought being on the southern border would protect my flanks, but barbarians started showing up pretty early. building the national wall should be a priority for border states, to keep out barbs

3. the barbarian cities or AI barb priority really should be toned down. because early on all the AIs kept going after the barbarian cities instead of each other. and barb cities kept spawning in fogged out areas, further distracting the AIs thoughout the game, and making a conquest victory harder and ahistorical.

4. maybe this is just the normal diplomacy AI being left untouched, but all the states were annoyed with me from the beginning. with no tech or money trading it was just about impossible to improve relations. of course when i check relations between AIs, they were just fine with each other, and all had open borders. historically there was some really sophisticated diplomacy work done to try to contain certain states, but none of that came into play here. i really wish i could go to a weaker state, and say "qing is too strong let's try to contain it", like diplomats actually did during that period.

5. i probably wasted too much time building up. there just didn't seem to be enough time. i spent most of the time fighting qi and qing, who had a defensive pact together. qi was surprisingly weak for a state that historically was always 2nd or 3rd in power, but qing was a monster (that part turned out to be accurate). qing and i basically wasted our armies on each other for 50 turns, and i only gained 1 city from them. it seemed difficult to fight only 1 state at a time, the AIs had no probs with forming defensive pacts, something i couldn't do because most of them were annoyed with me for the entire game. i only got open borders with a few states because we fought against the same state. even if i managed to fight only 1 at a time, there didn't seem to be sufficient time for a conquest victory on monarchy...

6. late in the game, zhao became a vassal of wei. i had no idea why that happened, as zhao didn't seem to lose many cities, it was actually slightly bigger than wei at the time. i'm puzzled by that

so that's my thoughts. if you've tried the scenario please comment. awesome scenario i must say, even though it was ahistorically at times (too much consideration for multiplayer?)

 

[Cow]

I only played on Prince, but I can outline what I did to hopefully help you a bit.

To begin with, I played as the Wei. I immediately converted to the bloodline of one of my neighbors, which provides a nice relationship boost, allowing open borders, etc.

I immediately began researching Rule of Heaven, since it not only allows Bureaucracy, but also a cheap wonder that allows a free technology. I had all my cities initially build workers so that I could develop my lands, which had tons of resources and great potential, but began horribly undeveloped.

While workers improved my cities, I focuses towards more military technologies, and improving my military might. I declared war on my neighbors to the south, the Han, as soon as I saw one of their border cities, which I could attack without even leaving my territory, was poorly defended.

It was a long war, but I managed to capture all their visible cities. Unable to find their last one, I allowed them to capitulate, revealing that they had captured one of the barbarian cities far south of them, which sort of made me angry in that finishing them off would never really be worth it.

After a little more buildup, I attacked the Qi, and as of my last save I've captured most of their cities, and am currently amassing my army for an attack on their capital, with 111 turns left.

Basically, don't waste too much time building up, but don't neglect it.

 

[mssprc]

rush to Machinery ASAP and declare war then after

 

[romelus]

yep i also went for the classical library wonder that gives a free tech. the AIs all seemed to go for a different tech. i also try for any techs that gives a GP, then use the GP to quickly get another tech.

i started a new game as the yan. the starting position seemed awful, and the land lacked resources. (i took a look at wei's land and yes it is littered with resources, probably the best land along with qin) yan's land had plenty of forrest and hills, which turned out to be extremely productive once i had mined them, and used the state property civic to get 2 food for mined hills. when i was done with improving the cities they could crank out a unit every turn or two! i liberally used GGs for military academies.

when the game started i converted to qi's bloodline and got on good terms with them. as the game progressed i wondered if it was worthwhile, as i only got an open border with them and there was nothing else to trade. but it still kept qi on the sidelines as i took on zhao, my only neighbour. zhao was this game's whipping boy, they were attacked at one time or another by wei, qi, han, and of course me. i never said no when someone asked me to attack zhao, but only sent out units when i was ready. i also put up the national wall quickly, minimizing barb damage. after that, all northern barbs moved along my border to attack the next target, which was zhao

i didn't attack early, but this time when i did attack, with about 90 turns left, i had a hell of a production machine. i quickly took 2 zhao cities, and they capitulated when i massed outside its capitol. i then attacked wei and took 2 cities, at that time qi decided to backstab me, but they were weak (again, i wonder why). as of now, with about 60 turns left, i've sacked 3 wei core cities including the capitol, and 2 core qi cities, closing in on their capitol. wei became a vassal of qi for some reason so i'm just gonna take them both out. han became a vassal of chu, and they were busy battling qin. i might have enough time to win this one, as my production machine is massive, and my army is the best trained, with all civis helping with military production or experience

 

[Araqiel]

6. late in the game, zhao became a vassal of wei. i had no idea why that happened, as zhao didn't seem to lose many cities, it was actually slightly bigger than wei at the time. i'm puzzled by that

The AI is more likely vassalize to each other like any other diplomatic interaction at monarch. Also If Wei had defeated Zhao's army and was about to seize his capital he could very well capitulate. I had monty do that to me in one of my first warlord games. (I was score leader and he was terribly backwards though)

 

[Chuey68]

I have found this scenario very fun but actually too easy. I dont think war is very profitable as I have won multiple peaceful games. I just flip my bloodline whenever I get the chance to start trade relations and I dedicate one city to only making emmissaries and another to defense, border cities push culture.
I also use shamanism most of the game to push my borders and just build defense. Mid-game my culture/defense is so stong I will pick up multiple Vassals and just coast for the win from either time or Diplomacy. So far this has worked up to Prince.

 

[romelus]

i won on my 2nd try! after i had vassalized zhao as yan, i dowed wei, who became a vassal of qi. so i assaulted qi until wei became free and capitulated to me on the same turn. soon qi also capitulated. i turned my attention to han, who was vassalized by chu earlier, but had by then broken free. i eliminated han so fast i destroyed it before they even agreed to talk to me

next was chu, i was making short work of them and took 3 of their 4 core cities, when qin built the emperor council. i controlled so much population i easily won both votes and got a diplomatic victory with 21 turns left, on monarchy. if qin hadn't built the council i probably had enough time to vassalize both chu and qin. i certainly had more than enough troops, many times more than both chu's and qin's combined, because yan's core cities were just incredibly productive

now that i'm familiar with the map, i have to say han probably has the worst land for military production. it was almost pure grassland, great for cottages but lousy for hammers. although it's a good candidate to try the food military production civic! i might try playing as han at a later time for a better challenge

 

[quizibuk]

I find that if you are anyone on the outside, that is anyone but Han or Qi, you need your national wall down reasonably quickly, i find i dont want to push off masonry at all, I make it my 1st or at the latest 2nd tech.

 

[Piscator]

Just got the game and started my 1st try on Monarch level with the Han. I'm just 75 turns into the game, but it seems pretty easy. To address some points.

1) Quite logical or the game would be a pushover.
2) For the Han not a problem. I took a barb city in the first 10 turns or so. But I can see it can be a bit of a problem of the civs on the west site. Qin even lost a city to barbs.
3) Seems to be a general problem with the AI going after barb cities. It should be fixed for the whole game. The red guy to my east even took a barb city on the west. Plain stupid.
4) Easy solved. Give away all the resources you don't need (cap not reached). Could get open borders with 3 or 4 and the subsequent bonuses (trading resources, fair trade relations) easy off set the malus. In my game the purple guy (Wei) pretty early declared war on the light blue guy and asked me to join. I joined for the mutual struggle bonus. However a few turns later the purple guy also declared war one me and suicided a bit of units. Ah, well.... Also trade resources (even not in spare) with other AIs. Helps diplo too.
5) I'm not quite there yet, but the AI only seems to build archers and polearms. The latter making all the horseman a bit difficult to use. But heavy cavalry 1 has a 40% withdrawal chance wich is quite good. However, I plan on heavy use of swordsman (the counter crossbowman I've yet to see if the AI is going to build them.
6) Dunno. Not there yet.

Used strategy:
* Running Bureaucracy, barter, slavery and shamanism.
* Cottage spam heavily (since Han didn't any hills anyway). For most game now I'm first in gold and food.
* Build 2 additional cities. One near quite a number of hills and the other near alot of resources.
* Heavy whipping in all cities near the rivers/fresh water lakes.
* At first opportunity I switched civics to pacifism/mercantilism, which yields an unstoppable amount of great people. Build an academy in my capital. Dumped a great engineer in my city where I'm now building heroic epics. This adds 6.75 (125%) per engineer (I plan to get more!). Build also forges in most of my cities. So the free specialst solves my production problem (also 1st in production now).
* Used the classic great library to get militarism and attached the general to a swordsman (needed to build heroic epics).
* Build the Underground Tomb with the free great engineer. 2 free specialists per city...

Plan:
* I also plan to get the free great artist and the free great merchant. I have to think what to do with them. Perhaps a golden age.
* Conquest in the next 70 turns. Should be straightforward and leave plenty of turns spare.
* Need to get just a bit more techs and great people. Techs come in about 3-4 turns now and I already have quite abit of 4 level techs.
* After that running professional army (+50% for units). An engineer (from gp) will now yield 8.25 (+175%) in my heroic epics city. With the next general, I'm going to build the military academy, which will make the military production city unstoppable.
* Perhaps running nationhood (?) to buy units elsewhere.
* Perhaps some civic changes for the unit XP.

I'll let you know how it goes... Hmmm... Off to start Warlords now or off to bed... I'm in doubt

Biggest gripe so far... Why can't I build those promised galleys? A bit annoying.

 

[PMabey]

I played game as dark blue (the one furthest north) cant remember name, on monarch difficulty. i attacked light blue and red and they became my vassals but i struggled after that. the other states were all friendly and had defensive pacts. i was easily winning on score thanks to my vassals but wanted to win via conquest. it was not possible becasue there was no time left in the game and i could not do anyhting about the other states.

ps spreading your bloodline is useless. i had mine in all of the light blue's cities but he did not change.

 

[ErrantSettler]

I'm currently playing a game as the Han on Prince difficulty. I am nearly 100 turns in (353 BC).

Early on the Zhao asked me to switch to their bloodline and as it had already spread in my northernmost city, I agreed. They have been Pleased with me ever since.

Shortly after my allies attacked the Wei, sandwiched in between the two of us. After a few turns they asked for my aid and I agreed. Sending in Chariot Is and Pikeman Is allowed me to take their southernmost city and a new one they built between me and the red guys. However, once they discovered Feudalism their Archer IIs in walled cities (many on hills) became unbeatable, even by Chariot IIs, the highest Str unit in the game if I recall correctly.

100 turns in and I have only captured two enemy cities and it looks like as they stay hunkered down there is no way for me to successfully press the attack. How have other people managed to counter the very defensible cities in this game (Archer II + wall + hill)? I am building catapults but have not finished any yet.

Also, due to the short time limit, it seems build priorities are very important. What do you consider essential and what is a waste of time? I built 2 extra workers, settled one new city, put two archers in every border city, built one monastery (forget the name for it in this scenario) to spread Zhao's bloodline around my cities, barracks in some cities, two wonders (the free tech one and GPP one) and the rest military.

Daoism was essential or my cities would be perpetually unhappy. Any other favourite civics for the Han?

 

[Jawsofwar]

Hi guys! Won scenario as the Qin on Noble difficulty. Was a diplomatic victory for me. I won the game through brute force and capitulation . At the beginning of the scenario I concentrated on developing my cities up by creating alot of workers. I put archers around my borders on the hills to attack barbarians. It is important to do this if you are the qin because the barbarians will attack you constantly and you dont want them killing your workers! The way I developed my cities was similar to a specialist style by using farms and mines. The civics in this scenario can get some awesome combos for specialist economy. I was discovering techs really fast and was researching future techs just a little after midway point in the number of turns allowed in the game. Since specialist economies allow you to lower the science rate for money I was able to afford a huge army and I rolled over my opponents. Rather than take over there whole land I would get them to want to capitulate with me. I had three vassals who were forced to vote for me ,even though they hated my guts , in the emperor's council. So I guess Al Capone said it right when he said "You can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with just a kind word."

Btw this scenario is really fun and just want to say Firaxis you all did a good job on this one!

P.S. but please fix no galley bug!

 

[Jawsofwar]

I'm currently playing a game as the Han on Prince difficulty. I am nearly 100 turns in (353 BC).

Early on the Zhao asked me to switch to their bloodline and as it had already spread in my northernmost city, I agreed. They have been Pleased with me ever since.

Shortly after my allies attacked the Wei, sandwiched in between the two of us. After a few turns they asked for my aid and I agreed. Sending in Chariot Is and Pikeman Is allowed me to take their southernmost city and a new one they built between me and the red guys. However, once they discovered Feudalism their Archer IIs in walled cities (many on hills) became unbeatable, even by Chariot IIs, the highest Str unit in the game if I recall correctly.

100 turns in and I have only captured two enemy cities and it looks like as they stay hunkered down there is no way for me to successfully press the attack. How have other people managed to counter the very defensible cities in this game (Archer II + wall + hill)? I am building catapults but have not finished any yet.

Also, due to the short time limit, it seems build priorities are very important. What do you consider essential and what is a waste of time? I built 2 extra workers, settled one new city, put two archers in every border city, built one monastery (forget the name for it in this scenario) to spread Zhao's bloodline around my cities, barracks in some cities, two wonders (the free tech one and GPP one) and the rest military.

Daoism was essential or my cities would be perpetually unhappy. Any other favourite civics for the Han?

Use catapults to lower their culture or wall defense then use swordsmen they are good for taking cities. Heavy cav are nice too since they can get to the war front quickly. As for happiness problems why not just whip them or use specialist to stagnate growth?

 

[ErrantSettler]

I am running the civic that converts food into production from military production, this is allowing me to produce units in 3-4 turns in my core cities and 6-8 turns in my peripheral cities. So, I like my large, happy cities better than small ones I am constantly whipping

I do have one specialist city (the one in the south--has tons of food surplus) that regularly churns out Great Scientists.

Catapults are much better in this scenario than in vanilla civ and I built a few of them. I'm also mass building swordsmen and crossbowmen to deal with archers and polearms respectively. I am at war with purple and red and purple is largely leaving me alone while I conquer red's cities. I am marching on their capital and expect them to capitulate within a few turns. I hope I can count on my allies the Zhao (light blue) to vote for me, which means I need 2 other vassal states in order to win the vote (4/7 right?) So if I can capitulate the red guys and the purple I guys I should win. I have only 60 turns left now, so it will be close...

Btw, I play on Prince difficulty.

I reiterate Jawsofwar's post: very fun scenario. The only not fun part is having the red guys bombard my city with galleys I cannot touch!

 

[ErrantSettler]

I did it! I won this scenario on Prince difficulty with ONE TURN LEFT!!!

I was at war with yellow and dark blue, at was nearly the end of the game and dark blue suddenly offered to capitulate despite me only having conquered their peripheral small cities (although I had their capital surrounded). Once they, and everyone else except light blue (my allies) and yellow (my enemies) had capitulated, I won the diplo victory with ONE TURN LEFT!

Awesome scenario. Fix the galley bug.

 

[apopholeus813]

this is an ridiculously easy scenario. Mopping up to win was to boring so I never won. What annoys me is I thought it would play like Sengoku, it doesn't. Many ways to produce huge armies from the get go, with no real way of supporting them. ( meaning economy, not self perpetuating conquest.)
Even on Empereor without building much of an army, founding no new cities, I easily built all world wonders and when the ai declares war, OH NO!! not five units in my territory. How lame. This scenario should have been about a thousand times better. Anyone ever play Romance of the three kingdoms series? Need I say more?

Except- Where the hell is Sengoku for warlords? should have been a given firaxis!

 

[Judge Dee]

What I tend to do is crank out the heavy cavalry. Go for the flanking promotions, throw waves of horses at everyone, and hope that some of your guys survive. Dump all the GGs into one city as advisors, and skip the diplomacy. I had the same problem as the OP with everybody hating me but being friendly with each other.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

Swords and Catapults work well for mop up on hard hit cities...

 

[quizibuk]

switch to no state bloodline on the first turn and you can get in good with almost everyone very quickly, and if you use Yan, daoism gives you like 8-12 happiness per city