Christianity and Islam: ANY similarities?

[Katheryn]

Adam is the first prophet of Islam and the first human being. He was created by God but brought to life forty days after being kept as a dry body."He is an important figure in Judaism and Christianity as well and he is best known for the story of Adam and Eve.

Although best known for the Deluge, Nuh was a primary preacher of monotheism at his time. According to Islam, it was this faithfulness to God that led to his selection for building the Ark that would continue life on Earth. In contrast with Christian and Jewish traditions which say the Deluge was a global event, there is some difference in opinion in Islam over whether the flood associated with Nuh was localized or global.

Ibrahim is regarded by Muslims today as one of the significant prophets as he is credited with rebuilding the Kaaba in Makkah. His family, including his son Ismail, is also credited with helping create the civilization around Makkah that would later give birth to the final prophet of Islam, Muhammad. Ibrahim is also noted for almost sacrificing his son Ismail (Ishmael) for God in an event now commemorated annually by Eid ul-Adha. He is also the first prophet to name the believers as "Muslims" meaning "those with full submission to Allah".

Lut (Lot) is most notable in Islam for attempting to preach against homosexuality in Sodom and Gomorra, only to be mocked and ignored by the people who lived there.

Moses (Arabic:Musa), referred to in the Qur'an more than any other prophet, is significant for revealing the Torah (Arabic:Tawrat) to the Ancient Egypt Egyptians. The Qur'an says Moses realized his connection with God (Arabic:Allah) after receiving commands from him during a stop at Mount Sinai. He later went on to free the enslaved Hebrews after failing to convince the Egyptian pharaoh of God's power. Moses subsequently led the freed Hebrews for forty years through the desert on a long attempt to capture Canaan, the Promised Land. During this long journey, Moses received the Torah and the Ten Commandments during another trip to Mount Sinai. At the end of his life, according to Islamic tradition, Moses chose to die to be closer to God instead of taking an offer that would have extended his life. by aneesa and Ahsen

Those are some of the prophets we each believe in for what its worth.

Well, now you can see that Islam does not at all accept the Old Testament. Very little of the above is in it, only the part about Moses taking the Hebrews into Israel. Everything else is quite different.

Again, you see the emphasis upon SUBMISSION to Allah.

This is no way resembles Christianity. Christianity says that 'the righteous shall live by faith'. Good works are simply the EVIDENCE that someone has been reconciled with God, they are not a gift we give God so that He will have mercy upon us. Instead, good works are prepared ahead of time for those who are in Jesus Christ, and we simply walk into them by faith. (or not, if we so choose).

However, once a conversion experience has been attained by a Christian, there is no question that the person is a 'believer'. God lives in timelessness (eternity) so it is difficult for us to imagine, but we are completely justified at that time. Justice has been satisfied at that moment and the law, with all it's rules and regulations - the debt that has accrued against us is CANCELLED, paid in full by the vicarious atonement of Jesus Christ, by his death on the cross. That includes all the debt of your entire lifetime, because, of course, God knows the future.

For a Muslim, they do not know whether they will make it into heaven until the judgment comes. Unless, of course, they die in jihad, in which case they are guaranteed a place in Paradise.

So, the Muslim works off his 'debt' his entire lifetime by giving total submission to God.

And this is why the two religions are unreconcilable.

Of course, they have an entirely different God, because the justice system works completely different in the two religions.

Christians have the spirit of adoption, where we cry, "Abba, Father!" as we are grafted into the family of God through grace, which is unmerited favor.

Muslim have a capricious God who you cannot trust to keep you safe throughout the life and death process. You have no idea whether or not your works will be good enough to cancel out your sins.

I debated a guy on another forum and I was amazed to find out that no one knows until the Judgment Day whether or not, In Shallah, whether or not God will be willling to allow them into heaven.

That is an unthinkable way to live for a Christian. How frightening to be unsure of your welcome, how depressing to be without a Savior.

 

[newfangle]

Consider the following values:
|Islam - Christianity| = x
|Islam - any Eastern religion| = y
|Christianity - any Eastern religion| = z

y and z are basically the same number. x/y and x/z are infintessimal.

 

[Katheryn]

Islamic practice is a mixture of Christianity, Judaism, some Zoroastrianism, and some unique ideas. It has a strong similarity to Judaism, notably Orthodox Judaism. To deny the similarty of Orthodox Judaism to Islam would be to reject the extremely obvious. Their main differences consist are on the topics of univeralism and specific prophets. Both of these are similar to Christianity in many ways. Christianity and Judaism used the word Allah before Islam did. Khoda and many other words are also used in Islam.

Zoroastrian ideas can be found in the Quran such as the Chivnat Bridge (Sirat in the Quran) and the idea that hell is temporary (the texts of both clearly say this whether or not it is widely accepted). Fasting and meditation was common to Christian Jewish, and Islamic mysticism. All three are Monotheistic, have a concept of prophets, and promote a moral code. Christianity and Islam both have the idea of Heaven and both have similar ideas of a Judgement although the differ on the salvation method. Chrisianity is the only current religion with this type of idea of salvation. Sunnis do not really have priests although Shiites have clerics that are very important in that version of Islam.

This is similar to the way Zoroastrianism and Manicheanism share ideas.

It can be argued that Sufism may have derived many of its ideas from Hinduism and indigenous Arab ideas. The attempt to combine Islam and Hinduism by Akbar was interesting though brief. The Ismailis were also very interesting.

The religions deriving from the Judaic tradition consist one branch of the major world religions while Hinduism and Buddhism constitute another.


In cannot be said that the government of Sri Lanka or the LTTE are favorable to Christianity or Islam. Suicide bombings and ethnic cleansings occur in that ongoing conflict. Not all incidents of religious hatreds involve the same religions.


You can convert to other religions in Bahrain which is governed by Sharia. It also possible to do so in the Palestinian territories (take a look at the 2005 report), Turkey, Syria, and other countries. Evangelical organizations operate in Bahrain.

I am not sure where the idea came from that Hebrews called God Allah, that is not correct, they do not even say His name. The write it like this G-d. or Jhwh. They have never used Allah. Christians who spoke Aramaic may have used Allah for a few years, but for the most part, the Church was in Turkey and Greece and they spoke Greek.

Jesus instructed His people to call God, "Father", as in the Lord's prayer, when the disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray, He said, pray like this: "Our Father, who art in heaven.... " etc.

This would be translated, "Abba", not Allah.

There is very serious persecution going on in the Middle East and especially in the Palestinian areas. Egypt is undergoing terrible persecution, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and well, just all over.

http://www.jcpa.org/christian-persecution.htm

.

Human Rights of Christians
in Palestinian Society
(Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs)
Justus Reid Weiner
On the heels of the Gaza disengagement, which was intended to empower the Palestinian Authority to improve the lives of its people, few journalists have reported on the acutely trying times facing the Christians residing in areas "governed" by the Palestinian Authority. In his book, Professor Weiner, Scholar in Residence at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, provides an in-depth look into the nearly uninterrupted persecution of Christians throughout the decade since the Oslo peace process began.

Living amidst a xenophobic Muslim population plagued by endemic violence bordering on anarchy, the Christians have shrunk to less than 1.7 percent of the population in the Palestinian areas. “Tens of thousands have abandoned their holy sites and ancestral properties to live abroad, while those who remain do so as a beleaguered and dwindling minority," Weiner said.

"Their plight is, in part, attributable to the adoption of Muslim religious law (Sharia) in the Constitution of the Palestinian Authority. Moreover, the Christians have been abandoned by their religious leaders who, instead of protecting them, have chosen to curry favor with the Palestinian leadership." Professor Weiner's book reveals and analyzes why this persecution - largely ignored by the international community, the media, and even the human rights organizations - has metastasized to the extent that it threatens the very existence of this 2000-year-old community.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Professor Weiner earned his Juris Doctor degree at the University of California at Berkeley (Boalt Hall) School of Law and is a member of the Israel and New York Bar Associations. Weiner previously taught as a Visiting Assistant Professor at Boston University Law School. Currently he teaches courses on international and comparative law at Hebrew University in Jerusalem. His scholarship has appeared in leading law journals and intellectual magazines.

 

[Quasar1011]

- Followers of both religions believe in the same God

That is not true. Christians worship Jehovah; Muslims worship Allah. They are hardly the same god. Just read their holy books and you will see that these 2 deities could not possibly be the same.

 

[Margim]

This thread has been started as a result of a rather bold claim that Christianity and Islam have NOTHING in common.

Rather bold indeed. The claim is obviously wrong. However, I'd like to respond as one who has both studied Christian theology and several Islamic studies subject.

- Followers of both religions believe in the same God
- Both religions are monotheistic
- Both claim to trace their origins back to the same person (Abraham)

I would say that these three points are essentially one. We say they believe in the same God only because they trace their origins back to the monotheistic God of Abraham.

If it wasn't for the Abaraham connection, we'd probably argue that they were similar in worshipping one God, but the Gods were distinctly different.

That being said, their understandings of God are distinctly different. The Christian model of trinitarianism is something completely foreign to Islam. Muslims do make the claim of polytheism against Christianity, while the Christian claim to the deity of Christ makes their God, to them (or us... I'd have to include myself here) of a distinct nature to Allah.

- Both believe in the second coming of Jesus

I confess here that I did not know this side of things until I'd looked it up, but its interesting.

Of course, the role of Jesus varies widely between the two faiths, and according, so does the intent of his second coming.

- Both believe in the soul

Yep. Along with several other religions.

- Both believe that after death, a person's soul is judged by God

yep.

- Both believe that the Old Testament is the word of God

And the New Testament as well. Both are revealed texts, although Islam regards them as corrupted from their original truth. It is for this reason Allah revealed the Quran to Muhammad.

So I certainly agree... the two have much in common. Blanket statements about them being the same, however, must be avoided, as their essential concept of God, theology, and the world is different.

Its also complicated by the variences between denominations/factions within each faith, who have their own theological emphases.

 

[Katheryn]

That is not true. Christians worship Jehovah; Muslims worship Allah. They are hardly the same god. Just read their holy books and you will see that these 2 deities could not possibly be the same.

Like I said, Quasar has it right.

And here is another difference between Christianity and Islam:

Thursday, 26th October 2006
Muslim cleric 'backs execution of gays'
Don Frame
A ROW has blown up over a claim a prominent Manchester Muslim has defended the execution of sexually-active gay people as "justified".

Arshad Misbahi, a junior Imam at the city's Central Mosque is alleged to have confirmed that it is an acceptable punishment in Iraq and Iran.

His comments are said to have been made to psychotherapist Dr John Casson who is researching the persecution of gays in Islamic states. But they have been condemned as "encouraging conflict between the area's large gay and Muslim communities

Witnesses

Dr Casson said: "He told me that in a true Islamic state, such punishments were part of Islam if the person had had a trial, at which four witnesses testified that they had seen the actual homosexual acts."

He went on: "I asked him what would be the British Muslim view and he repeated that in an Islamic state these punishments were justified.

"They might result in the deaths of thousands, but if this deterred millions from having sex and spreading disease, then it was worthwhile to protect the wider community."

It is understood Imam Misbahi believes his comments were taken out of context and misrepresented. He says will be issuing a statement to clarify his views.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/226/226549_muslim_cleric_backs_execution_of_gays.html

Christians don't want to kill gays.

 

[Katheryn]

Rather bold indeed. The claim is obviously wrong. However, I'd like to respond as one who has both studied Christian theology and several Islamic studies subject.



I would say that these three points are essentially one. We say they believe in the same God only because they trace their origins back to the monotheistic God of Abraham.

If it wasn't for the Abaraham connection, we'd probably argue that they were similar in worshipping one God, but the Gods were distinctly different.

That being said, their understandings of God are distinctly different. The Christian model of trinitarianism is something completely foreign to Islam. Muslims do make the claim of polytheism against Christianity, while the Christian claim to the deity of Christ makes their God, to them (or us... I'd have to include myself here) of a distinct nature to Allah.



I confess here that I did not know this side of things until I'd looked it up, but its interesting.

Of course, the role of Jesus varies widely between the two faiths, and according, so does the intent of his second coming.



Yep. Along with several other religions.



yep.



And the New Testament as well. Both are revealed texts, although Islam regards them as corrupted from their original truth. It is for this reason Allah revealed the Quran to Muhammad.

So I certainly agree... the two have much in common. Blanket statements about them being the same, however, must be avoided, as their essential concept of God, theology, and the world is different.

Its also complicated by the variences between denominations/factions within each faith, who have their own theological emphases.

Totally absurd.

Just because two people both believe there is a city called Austin, Texas, doesn't give them any common ground.

The definitions of what these things mean are completely contrary to one another.

Yes, they both believe in a 'soul' but what is the definition of that word?

Christians believe it is totally corrupted and unable to please God.
Muslims believe it is the only way to please God. To submit their soul to God.

So, one group is saying that Austin, Texas is in the North Pole
and another is saying it is in the USA.

They have nothing in common.

Yes, they both believe 'Jesus' is returning but WHO IS HE?

Is he going to destroy all the crosses in the world?
Will he deny he died on the cross for the sins of man?

If so, he is NOT the same Jesus as the one Christians believe in.

Christians are told: "Many will come in my name, saying I am the Christ..." and 'in the last days there will be many false prophets...' and the only way we are to distinguish betwee true and false prophets is this:

WHO IS JESUS CHRIST? Is He the Son of God or not?

And in regards to the idea that Muslims accept the Old and New Testament, that is laughable, did you read the post that Field Marshall wrote that gave the differences in the stories of the Old Testament? They are totally different, they have nothing in common with one another.

Evidently you haven't READ the New Testament because it says over and over that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, that He is the Son of God, that He rose from the dead. There is not ONE book in the New Testament that doesn't say this. And Muslims deny this, so how could they possibly accept the New Testament? That is ridiculous. They'd have to toss out 90% of it! lol.

Again, take it from the Christians here, there is nothing common in these two religions. Islam is simply a DENIAL of every basic tenet of Christianity.

 

[Field_Marshal]

Yeah the Sheiks, Imams, and Ayatollahs have lined up to denounce Christian text as fiction. Jesus would be furious if we believed some of the things muslims believe.

We do not believe in the same God at all. They would be horrified at being placed in the same categorey as us "People of the Book." Islam is not Christianity and to lump it together is ignorant of the blatant differences that you see every day.

And the New Testament as well. Both are revealed texts, although Islam regards them as corrupted from their original truth. It is for this reason Allah revealed the Quran to Muhammad.

Um, where did you study theology? Why wouuld muslims believe something that states repetitively what they believe is heresy.

 

[Margim]

Christians don't want to kill gays.

Actually, some of them do...

I admire your desire to promote your faith, but it seems that in your enthusiasm, you are making polarised claims that aren't entirely accurate.

Some people who claim to follow God through the prescribed way of Muhammad are homophobic and/or militant and/or anti-other-ways-of seeing things.

Some people who claim to follow God through the prescribed way of Jesus are homophobic and/or militant and/or anti-other-ways-of seeing things.

In both cases, there are other followers who would distance themselves from the more extreme application or fanatical interpretations of faith, that are manifested in a type of religion. There are also people who follow their God without any type of religious observance, in a vareity of theologies (other posters should note here equally... generalising about Christianity's views of heaven or hell, etc should be done with caution... there is significant diversity within faiths too).

Pointing out the worst crimes of governments and peoples claiming to belong to the Muslim faith is unfair, unless you are prepared to do the same for Christianity. On this basis, we could decry Christianity as behind;

- Hitler
- The KKK
- The Crusades
- The Inquisition
- The Italian Mafia
- Human rights atrocities in Rwanda, Indonesia (Ambon), the Balkans

As a Christian, I would hope the world would have the grace to recognise that these groups do NOT represent what I understand true Christianity to be.
Perhaps we should afford this grace to those of other faiths and cultures as well?

 

[GenMarshall]

The only thing that makes Christianity and Islam have similarities is that they are both Abrahamic Religions!

 

[Field_Marshal]

Actually, some of them do...

I admire your desire to promote your faith, but it seems that in your enthusiasm, you are making polarised claims that aren't entirely accurate.

Some people who claim to follow God through the prescribed way of Muhammad are homophobic and/or militant and/or anti-other-ways-of seeing things.

Some people who claim to follow God through the prescribed way of Jesus are homophobic and/or militant and/or anti-other-ways-of seeing things.

In both cases, there are other followers who would distance themselves from the more extreme application or fanatical interpretations of faith, that are manifested in a type of religion. There are also people who follow their God without any type of religious observance, in a vareity of theologies (other posters should note here equally... generalising about Christianity's views of heaven or hell, etc should be done with caution... there is significant diversity within faiths too).

Pointing out the worst crimes of governments and peoples claiming to belong to the Muslim faith is unfair, unless you are prepared to do the same for Christianity. On this basis, we could decry Christianity as behind;

- Hitler
- The KKK
- The Crusades
- The Inquisition
- The Italian Mafia
- Human rights atrocities in Rwanda, Indonesia (Ambon), the Balkans

As a Christian, I would hope the world would have the grace to recognise that these groups do NOT represent what I understand true Christianity to be.
Perhaps we should afford this grace to those of other faiths and cultures as well?

You really dont get it. There is no law in Europe or America or any Christian country for that matter that says gays should be beheaded, stoned, flogged, or rolled down a mountain. Why do you think the KKK has like 1000 members? When people like this come out us good Christians make CERTAIN we denounce their false teachings. Give me one counter protest to a hezzbollah or hamas parade. The bible doesent support these things but the Koran certainly dosent outlaw them. We apologized for all te above listed. Who apologized for 9/11? No one. What about London? Madrid? Bali? Moscow? Thailand? Jakarta? No one.

 

[Katheryn]

Actually, some of them do...

I admire your desire to promote your faith, but it seems that in your enthusiasm, you are making polarised claims that aren't entirely accurate.

Some people who claim to follow God through the prescribed way of Muhammad are homophobic and/or militant and/or anti-other-ways-of seeing things.

Some people who claim to follow God through the prescribed way of Jesus are homophobic and/or militant and/or anti-other-ways-of seeing things.

In both cases, there are other followers who would distance themselves from the more extreme application or fanatical interpretations of faith, that are manifested in a type of religion. There are also people who follow their God without any type of religious observance, in a vareity of theologies (other posters should note here equally... generalising about Christianity's views of heaven or hell, etc should be done with caution... there is significant diversity within faiths too).

Pointing out the worst crimes of governments and peoples claiming to belong to the Muslim faith is unfair, unless you are prepared to do the same for Christianity. On this basis, we could decry Christianity as behind;

- Hitler
- The KKK
- The Crusades
- The Inquisition
- The Italian Mafia
- Human rights atrocities in Rwanda, Indonesia (Ambon), the Balkans

As a Christian, I would hope the world would have the grace to recognise that these groups do NOT represent what I understand true Christianity to be.
Perhaps we should afford this grace to those of other faiths and cultures as well?

Hogwash!


Here, this is from 1 John:

"...that which we have seen and heard we report to you, that ye also may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is indeed with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

And these things write we to you that your joy may be full.

And this is the message which we have heard from him, and declare to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not practise the truth.

But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin....


"...He that says, I know him, and does not keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

but whoever keeps his word, in him verily the love of God is perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him.

He that says he abides in him ought, even as he walked, himself also so to walk.

Beloved, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment, which ye have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye heard.

Again, I write a new commandment to you, which thing is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light already shines.

He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in the darkness until now.

He that loves his brother abides in light, and there is no occasion of stumbling in him.

But he that hates his brother is in the darkness, and walks in the darkness, and knows not where he goes, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

One cannot hate and be a Christian. If we do, then we a) are not forgiven by our Father in Heaven (per Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount) and b) because walking in hate is walking in darkness, and Jesus is the Light, so the Light overcomes the darkness. The two cannot meet.

 

[Field_Marshal]

Christianity has abolished violent unnecessary acts to progress towards a peacful solution. In no way are we like Islam and comparing the two so vehemently after youve been proven wrong only makes one look foolish.

 

[Katheryn]

Some people who claim to follow God through the prescribed way of Muhammad are homophobic and/or militant and/or anti-other-ways-of seeing things.

Some people who claim to follow God through the prescribed way of Jesus are homophobic and/or militant and/or anti-other-ways-of seeing things.

=================

Excuse me, but the Koran says that gays should be killed.

The Bible says that those caught in sexual immorality should be forgiven. And even if they are our enemies and persecute us, we are to love them, we are to turn the other cheek!

The Koranic claim that homosexuality was unknown before it first appeared in Sodom is a uniquely Islamic concept; so is the notion that its destruction was exclusively due to the homosexual practices of its inhabitants, a departure from the Hebrew Scriptures. In addition to the Koran many hadiths or authoritative traditional sayings mention liwat, (homosexual intercourse) e.g. “When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes,” and “Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to (6).” Mohammed’s first successor Abu Bakr reportedly had a homosexual burned at the stake. The fourth caliph, Mohammed’s son-in-law Ali, ordered a sodomite thrown from the minaret of a mosque. Others he ordered to be stoned. One of the earliest and most authoritative commentators on the Koran, Ibn ‘Abbas (died 687) blended both approaches into a two-step execution in which “the sodomite should be thrown from the highest building in the town and then stoned.” Later it was decided that if no building were tall enough, the he could be shoved off a cliff. Regardless of the exact method,

“Moslem Jurists agree that, if proven of guilt, both of them should be killed. However, jurists differ on the methodology of capital punishment (7).”

There are seven countries in the world that carry the death penalty for homosexual acts, and all of them justify this punishment with sharia.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.asp?ID=5704

 

[Margim]

I'm not sure you've read my first post very carefully...

Totally absurd.

Just because two people both believe there is a city called Austin, Texas, doesn't give them any common ground.

The definitions of what these things mean are completely contrary to one another.

Yes, they both believe in a 'soul' but what is the definition of that word?

Christians believe it is totally corrupted and unable to please God.
Muslims believe it is the only way to please God. To submit their soul to God.

So, one group is saying that Austin, Texas is in the North Pole
and another is saying it is in the USA.

They have nothing in common.

I disagree. The fact they both know of a place called Austin, Texas, shows that they have similar patterns of speech, at the very least a starting point for discussion about the differences in understandings that they have.

As I said in my post, their understanding of God is fundamentally different. I'm not denying that. But the starting point for their discussion of God is the same. They use the same tradition of Abraham to begin with, although they differ on the specifics. They identify with the same figures, and identify with the same deity, even if, ultimately, the deity is not the same.

Yes, they both believe 'Jesus' is returning but WHO IS HE?

Is he going to destroy all the crosses in the world?
Will he deny he died on the cross for the sins of man?

If so, he is NOT the same Jesus as the one Christians believe in.

Christians are told: "Many will come in my name, saying I am the Christ..." and 'in the last days there will be many false prophets...' and the only way we are to distinguish betwee true and false prophets is this:

WHO IS JESUS CHRIST? Is He the Son of God or not?

I say yes. Muslims say no. So we differ on this point. However, again, to say we have 'nothing' in common borders on ridiculous. The historical connection and interaction between the two faiths is fact, not fiction. From a purely historical reasoning alone, one has to concede that Islam grew out of an udnerstanding of Christianity and Judaism, even if it radically altered/reinterpreted the source material of the texts of those two traditions.

And in regards to the idea that Muslims accept the Old and New Testament, that is laughable, did you read the post that Field Marshall wrote that gave the differences in the stories of the Old Testament? They are totally different, they have nothing in common with one another.

That's completely aside from the point I made in my post... Muslims accept the texts are revealed, even if they do not recognise the full authority of their content. They do not read those texts as we do, but they nevertheless concede them. Again, this forms a basis for discussion and similarity.

Evidently you haven't READ the New Testament because it says over and over that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, that He is the Son of God, that He rose from the dead. There is not ONE book in the New Testament that doesn't say this. And Muslims deny this, so how could they possibly accept the New Testament? That is ridiculous. They'd have to toss out 90% of it! lol.

I have read the New Testament. I wonder if you've read the book of Philemon. I don't believe it talks about Jesus' death and resurrection there at all. Neither does it say that Jesus is the son of God. Philippians doesn't talk explicitly about the resurrection. Revelation doesn't mention the resurrection. Neither does Jude.

So for your claim to be true, there's a good percentage of books you'd have to through out as well...

Unless it comes down to the way in which you understand its significance. That's how it works with Islam. The New Testament has a specific relevance to the way Muslims understand themselves... differently shaped, and we would say incorrectly shaped.

This makes them fundamentally different, but to argue that they have NOTHING in common is incorrect. The very fact there is material in the NT they reject indicates that there is something that they accept.

By the way, 'lol' is not a particularly valid debating tactic. Neither is insinuating that someone who reads things differently to you is less intelligent, or less informed.

Again, take it from the Christians here, there is nothing common in these two religions. Islam is simply a DENIAL of every basic tenet of Christianity.

You will note, as have most people that I've engaged in religious discussions with on these forums, that I am one of the Christians here.

 

[Margim]

You really dont get it. There is no law in Europe or America or any Christian country for that matter that says gays should be beheaded, stoned, flogged, or rolled down a mountain. Why do you think the KKK has like 1000 members? When people like this come out us good Christians make CERTAIN we denounce their false teachings. Give me one counter protest to a hezzbollah or hamas parade. The bible doesent support these things but the Koran certainly dosent outlaw them. We apologized for all te above listed. Who apologized for 9/11? No one. What about London? Madrid? Bali? Moscow? Thailand? Jakarta? No one.

Who apologised for Iraq? For the tens of thousands of innocent people who have died since the United States, and Australia, and the UK (all 'Christian countries,' in the same way we are labelling Saudi Arabia and Indonesia 'Muslim' countries) invaded?

Who is apologising for the way in which these Christian countries are chewing up the world's resources at the expense of billions who live (and die) on or below the poverty line?

Issues that are equally, if not higher moral/ethical questions than wars, yet we see them protected and promoted by common law... that's the very purpose of capitalist systems. Yet we don't see a problem with this, despite the intrinsic evil.

It entirely depends on your persective...

Christianity has abolished violent unnecessary acts to progress towards a peacful solution. In no way are we like Islam and comparing the two so vehemently after youve been proven wrong only makes one look foolish.

I'm not stating we are like Islam. All I am maintaining is that there are grounds for comparison, on a structural and traditional scale, even though our theologies are different.

On a purely historical level, I have shown that there are manifestations of Christianity and 'Christian' law that stands comparible to Islamic sharia. I am not saying this is true christianity, but it is one manifestation of christianity that we cannot deny or distance ourselves from.

 

[Field_Marshal]

Who apologised for Iraq? For the tens of thousands of innocent people who have died since the United States, and Australia, and the UK (all 'Christian countries,' in the same way we are labelling Saudi Arabia and Indonesia 'Muslim' countries) invaded?

Who is apologising for the way in which these Christian countries are chewing up the world's resources at the expense of billions who live (and die) on or below the poverty line?

Issues that are equally, if not higher moral/ethical questions than wars, yet we see them protected and promoted by common law... that's the very purpose of capitalist systems. Yet we don't see a problem with this, despite the intrinsic evil.

It entirely depends on your persective...

Lets not get into the War again

Envirementalists

Whatever then lets get to the religious text. Islam says fight Jihad, Kill gays, force conversions, practice deciet. Christianity Says love your neighbor, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That really sounds similar.

 

[Field_Marshal]

Who apologised for Iraq? For the tens of thousands of innocent people who have died since the United States, and Australia, and the UK (all 'Christian countries,' in the same way we are labelling Saudi Arabia and Indonesia 'Muslim' countries) invaded?

Who is apologising for the way in which these Christian countries are chewing up the world's resources at the expense of billions who live (and die) on or below the poverty line?

Issues that are equally, if not higher moral/ethical questions than wars, yet we see them protected and promoted by common law... that's the very purpose of capitalist systems. Yet we don't see a problem with this, despite the intrinsic evil.

It entirely depends on your persective...



I'm not stating we are like Islam. All I am maintaining is that there are grounds for comparison, on a structural and traditional scale, even though our theologies are different.

On a purely historical level, I have shown that there are manifestations of Christianity and 'Christian' law that stands comparible to Islamic sharia. I am not saying this is true christianity, but it is one manifestation of christianity that we cannot deny or distance ourselves from.

On the contrary we have and continue to distance ourselves from these people today. Fred phelphs has no support outside his church of 100, Hamas will gain an estimated 2,000 recruits this year.
The difference is we dont listen to these goofballs.

 

[Katheryn]

I'm not sure you've read my first post very carefully...



I disagree. The fact they both know of a place called Austin, Texas, shows that they have similar patterns of speech, at the very least a starting point for discussion about the differences in understandings that they have.

As I said in my post, their understanding of God is fundamentally different. I'm not denying that. But the starting point for their discussion of God is the same. They use the same tradition of Abraham to begin with, although they differ on the specifics. They identify with the same figures, and identify with the same deity, even if, ultimately, the deity is not the same.



I say yes. Muslims say no. So we differ on this point. However, again, to say we have 'nothing' in common borders on ridiculous. The historical connection and interaction between the two faiths is fact, not fiction. From a purely historical reasoning alone, one has to concede that Islam grew out of an udnerstanding of Christianity and Judaism, even if it radically altered/reinterpreted the source material of the texts of those two traditions.



That's completely aside from the point I made in my post... Muslims accept the texts are revealed, even if they do not recognise the full authority of their content. They do not read those texts as we do, but they nevertheless concede them. Again, this forms a basis for discussion and similarity.



I have read the New Testament. I wonder if you've read the book of Philemon. I don't believe it talks about Jesus' death and resurrection there at all. Neither does it say that Jesus is the son of God. Philippians doesn't talk explicitly about the resurrection. Revelation doesn't mention the resurrection. Neither does Jude.

So for your claim to be true, there's a good percentage of books you'd have to through out as well...

Unless it comes down to the way in which you understand its significance. That's how it works with Islam. The New Testament has a specific relevance to the way Muslims understand themselves... differently shaped, and we would say incorrectly shaped.

This makes them fundamentally different, but to argue that they have NOTHING in common is incorrect. The very fact there is material in the NT they reject indicates that there is something that they accept.

By the way, 'lol' is not a particularly valid debating tactic. Neither is insinuating that someone who reads things differently to you is less intelligent, or less informed.



You will note, as have most people that I've engaged in religious discussions with on these forums, that I am one of the Christians here.

Nope. Philemon speaks of 'The Father' and Muslims NEVER refer to Allah as Father. That would be blasphemy. Also speaks of the Holy Spirit, another no-no.

Revelation calls Jesus Christ King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and also calls Him Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, etc. another big no-no. Those are code words for GOD. And all those, "Listen to what the Spirit says to the Churches" Not Islamic!

Philippians has some of the most beautiful scripture in the Bible, almost all no-nos. Like this one:

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Oops, the New Testament called Jesus God again! They can't tolerate that! And said He died on the cross - Muslims won't like that either.


Jude speaks of Jesus Christ, our Savior - another no-no. And the Holy Spirit and says God is our Savior. All unacceptable. The whole book must be tossed. It's only one chapter too!

So, you are totally debunked on these books, they would ALL be totally unacceptable to Muslims, and in fact, blasphemous to Muslims.

In fact, ALL of the New Testament books are blasphemous to Muslims!

And how could anyone who knows the Bible say that Revelation doesn't mention the resurrection? What do you think they are doing in heaven? How did the saints get there?

Revelation 20:


6 Blessed and holy he who has part in the first resurrection: over these the second death has no power; but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


===========

Sheesh!

 

[Katheryn]

I'm not stating we are like Islam. All I am maintaining is that there are grounds for comparison, on a structural and traditional scale, even though our theologies are different.

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They only have what they PLAGARIZED from the Bible, 90% of which they cannot use. They took our holy book and put THEIR name in instead of ours. And you call that something in common?

I don't think so. LOL!

Here is some more from Philippians, a beautiful CHRISTIAN book:

7But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Again, completely blasphemous to Muslims. But very beautiful, and if you are a Christian and you can read that without a leap in your heart, then... well I don't know, but it is very beautiful.