Chronicles of Mankind

[schramm]

Wow! Awesome! I'm checking it right now...

It also bothers me that some mapscripts don't add the new features, and decided to remove them. Your converting of this mapscript comes at the right time, because the one I converted from C2C has stopped working for no apparent reasons

It works. Thank you!
Added to the the pool of maps. And you to the credits file
And in case you have a mood to convert any more mapscripts, don't hold yourself back

Edit: I just noticed, that it doesn't place any March terrain only the Swamp features.

No problem, like a said, quick and dirty because I like playing the mod and enjoy the PerfectWorld scripts, but was dissappointed in not having access to all the goodies added by the mod. The key is the AddFeatures() function in the map script's python code. Unfortunately the differences between 3.10 and 3.21 were so big, it was easier just to port over all of 3.21 and back-date the pieces of code that got broken. 3.21 seems to use a MapScriptTools library which doesn't work (or I cannot get working) with the CoM mod. There is also a newer 3.3x version of the script that could be ported over as well, but it uses A LOT of newer terrains and features that would need to be removed. I also noticed the old (3.10) BonusPlacer() really spams out the resources, not sure if it's due to the sheer number of types of resources, or what. BonusPlacer() does have a function for placing down bonuses that got missed, so that there is always at least 1 of each on the map.

Is marsh a feature in CoM? I don't see it in CIV4FeatureInfos.xml
I do notice that there are two (uncommented) features not included in the AddFeatures() python function: Bamboo and Kelp. Are those features that you want added in the map generation?
The problem with adding new ones that weren't originally included in the script, is you need to generate a rule for them, like which temperature zones, rainfall zones, percent chance, etc. I didn't want to generate any rules, just port over existing ones. Luckily it seems the RI version contained all the features of interest.

On another note: I notice that the islands and swamp features have the generic 10% defense bonus, is that desired? I like the RFC method of have islets give a small boost in defense, like 25% (compared to a regular coast tile's 10%). It gives ships (especially privateers) a place to hide and recoup, and gives strategic defense tiles. And I always thought swamp would give negative defense bonuses, units shouldn't be able to fight well in a swamp, no? Although I don't know if the iDefense value can be negative or not.

 

[schramm]

Oh, I also found a couple of bugs in the CIV4ArtDefines_Movie.xml file:
ART_DEF_MOVIE_NAZCA_LINES was missing
ART_DEF_MOVIE_OIL_REFINERY had a extra tab causing an error
I think I fixed both here.

 

[<Nexus>]

Is marsh a feature in CoM? I don't see it in CIV4FeatureInfos.xml

No, it's a terrain type. The only one where Swamp is supposed to be placed.

I do notice that there are two (uncommented) features not included in the AddFeatures() python function: Bamboo and Kelp.

IIRC those are both generated by the script you sent. The only thing missing is Marsh terrain.

I like the RFC method of have islets give a small boost in defense, like 25% (compared to a regular coast tile's 10%). It gives ships (especially privateers) a place to hide and recoup, and gives strategic defense tiles.

I'll consider it

And I always thought swamp would give negative defense bonuses, units shouldn't be able to fight well in a swamp, no?

Well... no.
Just think of it: The defending units get there first, they have some time to find the safe spots and wait in ambush. The attackers on the other hand have to fight the terrain and the enemy at once.

Oh, I also found a couple of bugs in the CIV4ArtDefines_Movie.xml file:
ART_DEF_MOVIE_NAZCA_LINES was missing
ART_DEF_MOVIE_OIL_REFINERY had a extra tab causing an error
I think I fixed both here.

I thought I had fixed that already in the latest patch. Dis you install that? I'll check it any way... Tomorrow

 

[schramm]

No, it's a terrain type. The only one where Swamp is supposed to be placed.

Hmmm, I can look into it. At the moment I think swamps appear in tundra, grasslands, etc. as well. I'll poke around.

Well... no.
Just think of it: The defending units get there first, they have some time to find the safe spots and wait in ambush. The attackers on the other hand have to fight the terrain and the enemy at once.

If fortifying, yes. But if being ambushed while just traversing a swamp, I'd say the unit within the swamp would be at a disadvantage?

I thought I had fixed that already in the latest patch. Dis you install that? I'll check it any way... Tomorrow

I'll double check. Is there an SVN or GIT of the project I can link to to make sure I'm always on the latest version?

 

[schramm]

I'll double check. Is there an SVN or GIT of the project I can link to to make sure I'm always on the latest version?

Dope. I hadn't installed the 1.1.1 patch!

 

[schramm]

Okay, here is an updated file. I started with the latest v3.30 perfectmongoose map this time. All the features and terrains are properly place (I hope), and I also tweaked some of the private functions for speed, since the script does take a long time to load.

Let me know what you think, if you see anything missing/misplaced. I think there may be some need to tweak the percentage constants for everything, which is the easy part.

 

[<Nexus>]

THX! I'll check ASAP

 

[schramm]

THX! I'll check ASAP

Sorry about spamming the thread here, but as I posted that, I noticed that the mapscript wasn't following the FeatureInfo rules, placing bamboo, swamps, etc. in wrong places. I updated it, yet again, and it's late and I think I'm done now!

Note that I also changed the Islands feature to be Coast, not Ocean in the FeatureInfo xml file, since that's where they are being placed.

EDIT: and yet again, swamps on hills. I really need to triple check these feature rules... fixed again.

 

[<Nexus>]

It's seems fine now

Though this script creates very weird shaped landmasses.

Wow! That's a lot of mountains

Spoiler :

What I also noticed is that it's drawing a solid line of Marsh along the Equator across all the continents.

 

[schramm]

It's seems fine now

Though this script creates very weird shaped landmasses.

Wow! That's a lot of mountains

What I also noticed is that it's drawing a solid line of Marsh along the Equator across all the continents.

Yeah the PW3 system uses a perlin noise function, and I'm not sure I like the landmasses either. If you select the PW2 landmass system in the options it reverts to the old tectonic method.

For that mountain screenshot, what peak method was set? Absolute or slope? I noticed when using absolute, you tend to get lots of clumps of mountains (usually not THAT big, but hey, it's random). Slope method tends to do the opposite, you get large swaths of hilly tundra where "mountains" would be, and the peaks tend to line one side or the other.

The marsh thing, I don't know, must be something in the temperature/climate function and how it chooses the temperature and rainfall map. Maybe see if the PW2 climate system works better?

 

[<Nexus>]

Yeah, I was playing around with different settings and generated some maps. Some I liked and some I didn't.
Thank you again for your great job. It's a really big help

 

[schramm]

Yeah, I was playing around with different settings and generated some maps. Some I liked and some I didn't.
Thank you again for your great job. It's a really big help

Okay I did a little tweaking and tinkering, trying to get a more Earth-like random map. This is what I landed on, I generated a few maps with these settings, trying out different options, and I think it's producing some nice maps now.

May I also suggest changing the bamboo from a feature itself into a variety of forest? That way anything associated with forests can also apply to bamboo forests, such as the woodsman promotion, events, chopping etc.

 

[<Nexus>]

In the meanwhile I have started to add more terrain features (Scrubs, Reef, Savannah and Hot-springs). These were hidden in the mod for a long time (commented out in the xml) because they caused CTD. Recently I received help and those can be added back to the mod. And maybe add even some more...
So now I'm re-enabling what you have commented out in the script

 

[<Nexus>]

So the new features are:

Coral-reef:

Reef:

Savannah and Reef:

Savannah and Hot-spring:

Scrub:

 

[<Nexus>]

Unfortunately PerfectMongoose_v330 doesn't work with these, so I will ask for your help again @schramm once I am ready for a new update of the mod.

 

[<Nexus>]

So my plans with the new features are the following:

Reef:
- coastal hazard (damage per turn, reduce defense)
- can build Fishing Boats

Coral Reef:
- +1
- reduced defense for Submarines in the shallow waters

Hot springs:
- it's an oasis in cold climate: no terrain damage here (on tundra and ice terrains)
- extra defense (the defenders have a warm place)
- (maybe) city can build a Thermal Spa for tourism

Savannah:
- much less than a Forest but more than an empty tile. Maybe build a Camp.
Honestly, I'm not really sure yet what I want to use it for.

Scrub:
Same as Savannah, not yet sure about it.

I'm also thinking about adding two more:
Fog and Dust Storm from WTP. They would make Tundra and Desert tiles even more dangerous and appear/disappear dynamically.

What do you think? Any ideas?

 

[schramm]

So my plans with the new features are the following:
Reef
Coral Reef
Hot springs
Savannah
Scrub
Fog and Dust Storm from WTP.
What do you think? Any ideas?

Yeah, wouldn't be a problem on the map script adding them back in. Like an idiot, I deleted a lot of that commented stuff to clean up the script and make it easier to read. Luckily it's not too hard to just cherry pick it back from the original. It'd just take some tweaking of the rules and such to get good placements, if you have an idea about what terrain, "temperature", "rainfall", and percentage/chance you'd like them to appear, those make it easier to write the rules.

For scrub, savannah, bamboo, are they going to act like a light forest? I know RFC Europe has a sparse forest type that only has 10% defense, no movement penalty, less chop, and can't build forest improvements, etc.

 

[<Nexus>]

Yeah, wouldn't be a problem on the map script adding them back in. Like an idiot, I deleted a lot of that commented stuff to clean up the script and make it easier to read. Luckily it's not too hard to just cherry pick it back from the original. It'd just take some tweaking of the rules and such to get good placements, if you have an idea about what terrain, "temperature", "rainfall", and percentage/chance you'd like them to appear, those make it easier to write the rules.

Maybe I'll upload the features here for you, so you can work on the script.

Bamboo is currently +1 and enables Orchard and Dome Farm. I'll make it allow Woodcutter, Lumbermill and Hybrid Forest instead and remove the +1 . So it's a feature not better than a tile without any features but you can improve it for extra production.
Defense goes down to +15% (from 25%).

Savannah: no basic yield bonus. Allows Camp - that's +1 for Nomad leaders from the start. And later it gets extra yields with later techs.
+10% defense.

Scrub: I think I'll do with it the same as Savannah, just not on Plains but Desert.

I don't want these to be chopable because they are so few on the map. Maybe I'll try to increase their frequency, so Savannah and Bamboo can be chopped too.

 

[PKSRoman]

What do you think? Any ideas?

Reef:
- coastal hazard (damage per turn, reduce defense)
- can build Fishing Boats

Coral reefs provide an important ecosystem for life underwater, protect coastal areas by reducing the power of waves hitting the coast, and provide a crucial source of income for millions of people. Coral reefs teem with diverse life. Thousands of species can be found living on one reef.

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/quick-questions/why-are-coral-reefs-important.html
BONUS FOR FOOD AND GOLD, FISHING BOATS TOO OF COURSE

Coral Reef:
- +1
- reduced defense for Submarines in the shallow waters

+1
+3 when tourism is invented
?make a resource from it and add to some tourists corporations?
?+2 if corporation is in city who is build near coral reef?

Hot springs:
- it's an oasis in cold climate: no terrain damage here (on tundra and ice terrains)
- extra defense (the defenders have a warm place)
- (maybe) city can build a Thermal Spa for tourism

only or bonus
extra defence? really?
thermal spa in town build near hot springs is good idea. maybe +1 ?

Savannah:
- much less than a Forest but more than an empty tile. Maybe build a Camp.
Honestly, I'm not really sure yet what I want to use it for.

Description
If you were to climb a tree in the middle of a savanna, you would see kilometres of flat land covered in tall and short grasses and spotted with low-lying shrubs and scattered trees. Savannas are usually a transitional zone between a forest and a grassland.
https://letstalkscience.ca/educational-resources/backgrounders/savanna-biome

What do savannas provide for humans?

African savannas provide water, grazing and browsing, food and fuel for tens of millions of people, and have a unique biodiversity that supports wildlife tourism.
https://nph.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/nph.15236

bonus to tourism - releated techs and corporations. Like +0.15 per every sawannah tile for safari hunters corp?
bonus to per tile (+1 for tile with savannah) when ecology is invented?

Savannas are a transitional biome, not really a forest and not really a desert – just somewhere in between. This habitat is home to many different species of plants and animals around the world, and in Africa it is home to the largest land mammal in the world – the African elephant. If you have ever watched a television program about African wildlife, you are probably more familiar with the savanna than you know. More than 40 species of hoofed mammals and their big cat predators are at home in the African savanna.
https://askabiologist.asu.edu/explore/savanna

elephants spawn only on savannah tiles?
only on savanah you can have a resource "elephants" ?

Scrub:
Same as Savannah, not yet sure about it.

What is the importance of scrub for wildlife?
Benefits to wildlife

Scrub provides nectar, seeds, fruits, shelter and nest sites for invertebrates, birds and mammals. It also offers suitable habitat for many flowering plants.

https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/co...ility/farming/advice/managing-habitats/scrub/

unique resources who`s spawn rate is a little higher only on scrubs? like umm.. salt?
unique animals who you can capture in scrub biome?
farm provide +1 in indrustal era on scrub tile?
tile with scrubs add +1 due unique herbs?
damage for units, but small, maybe -3% per turn?

Scrub can draw water out of the peatlands and wetlands, and intercept rainfall further drying out the habitat. It can also shade out plants in species rich grasslands.
https://www.ruralpayments.org/publi...of-woody-vegetation---intermediate-and-heavy/

Another factor causing loss of the desert scrub biome is agriculture and land conversion for human use. Many former desert scrublands have been cleared and irrigated to allow for crops to be planted. These soils are frequently marginal at best, and oftentimes salt accumulation makes the land unusable after a period of time.
https://untamedscience.com/biology/biomes/desert-scrub-biome/

I'm also thinking about adding two more:
Fog and Dust Storm from WTP. They would make Tundra and Desert tiles even more dangerous and appear/disappear dynamically.

i dont like idea, whole game can crash or mapgenerator go insane. test it carefully.

BAMBOO:
only archer- related things. it isnt very useful or civilisation - changed thing like wheat or corn. or coal.

also dont make with this mod a second caveman2cosmos who is too big and its potential is wasted because game is (was) unbalanced as hell

 

[<Nexus>]

Wow! That's a lot of ideas about so few things.
Not all of them can be done (at least with my coding skills) but there are many good ideas in what you said.

i dont like idea, whole game can crash or mapgenerator go insane. test it carefully

I have already added them and my first tests are very promising

BAMBOO:
only archer- related things. it isnt very useful or civilisation - changed thing like wheat or corn. or coal

Hmm... Changing Bamboo into a resource isn't such a bad idea We already have Prime Timber and it could be an alternative, another resource that Lumber Mills can work. This would also allow to make Bamboo appear on not all continents but just one. I think this would make Bamboo more meaningful.

also dont make with this mod a second caveman2cosmos who is too big and its potential is wasted because game is (was) unbalanced as hell

Don't worry, I won't
Actually I cannot think of any other terrain features that could be added. Maybe some weather effect, like Tornado and...
errr... nothing else comes to mind. But that would need some coding work too. Like events to create and remove it.

So I'm not planning to add a lot of stuff mindlessly, just because they are "historical". Everything I add needs to have a good and meaningful impact on the game and be understood by the AI too.