So I've been thinking about this for a while now, but I've finally decided to put my words on to paper (or a computer screen, to be precise). It has to do with City States, and the system that is used to determine their replacements, should a conflict of city names arrive because of modded civilizations.
I'm not an expert on Civ5 modding, so forgive me if I am wrong, but in Civ5, if you make a civ that uses the name of a city state from the Firaxis build of the game, then you have to provide a replacement name for the CS that is used when the modded civ is loaded. Naturally, most modders chose recognizable names, such as Montevideo, for ease of research and recognizability for mod users. A problem with this system is that if modders aren't coordinated, they might use the same name multiple times- I seem to recall that a while ago, multiple mods made Montevideo a replacement CS. With coordination this can be solved, but it's still a disadvantage nevertheless.
Problems can also arise when someone makes a modded civilization that utilizes a city name that was used by another modded civ as a CS replacement. I don't know exactly what happens in that scenario, but whatever it is, the chances are it's at least a slightly clunky solution (such as removing the CS altogether when both civs are activated). Even with those problems, in the end the system for Civ5 modding worked, because for all extents and purposes the names of city states are interchangeable. The only thing that really made each CS unique was it's jingle.
Here's where the actual problem comes into play: City States in civ 6 are not compatible with this system. Each city state grants a special ability to its Suzerain and in addition has a unique symbol. Inevitably, a modded civ will assign a CS a new name that does not fit at all with its symbol and ability. But what if I told you that I had a proposal for a system that could potentially solve those problems as well as the problems that the system for Civ5 had? Hear me out, and tell me if it would work.
The system would be a mod (perhaps developed by a collaboration of major modders) that users can download and that civs that would normally replace city states support. Players could still use those civs without the mod, as long as they're fine finding a CS that replaces Geneva with an unfitting ability and an icon with Geneva's key.
Part 1 - Organizing City States and their replacements by Ability
The first thing that would have to be done would be laying out the list of every city state ability in the game. Each ability starts off being associated with 1 CS. But here's where the mod comes in- instead of forcing modders to add new CS names every time they make a civ that utilizes a city name from a Vanilla or modded CS, the mod would add a bunch of city names in advance.
The community, or mod developers, would choose somewhere between 3-5 appropriate cities to add to each CS ability. So, for example, the CS ability of increasing wonder production by 15%, which is currently unique to Brussels, now becomes the CS ability for Brussels, Teotihuacan, Cahokia, Timbuktu, and Magelang. Now, every time Brussels would normally spawn during a game, one of those 5 cities spawn- but never more than one.
What happens if a modded civilization utilizes one of the cities in that category? Well, if the civilization supports this hypothetical mod, then it will tell the mod NOT to include that city in the list of possible city names to spawn with that ability (if the civilization is in-game preferably). So, if you have a Belgium civ loaded, then whenever Brussels would normally spawn, then either Teotihuacan, Cahokia, Timbuktu, or Magelang would spawn. If you also had a Mississippian modded civ and an Indonesian modded civ in the game, then it would be either Timbuktu or Magelang. Understand? If every city in the list cannot be spawned due to every equivalent modded civilization being in-game (which is unlikely), then the mod would automatically choose a different set of CS (ability) to spawn.
When choosing cities for the list for each ability, factors such as geographic variety, historical variety, name recognition, and whether the city was part of a larger empire should all be taken into account. I also think that the cities must be chosen so that there is balance - if cities that would likely be used by some of the most popular mods were all lumped into one or two ability lists, then players with many mods might not ever see those abilities in-game.
Part 2 - Assigning & Creating Symbols and other Assets
This is the solution to the second problem that was posed by Civ 6's new city states. The City State Replacement mod (or whatever it would end up being called) would have to provide symbols for each of the city states that it could spawn. Not all of the new potential city states would have to use new symbols - in fact, for some ability categories, like Lisbon, the same symbol could be used for all in the category (Lisbon's symbol is just waves). But there would definitely be some that need changing, such as Geneva or Jakarta. Depending on the amount of artists we have and the amount of motivation they have, we could either make individual symbols for each possible city state (unlikely) or make generic symbols that represent each ability and are used for all cities that don't have their own unique symbol. I personally think it's better to do the second option, at least initially, and then slowly add more unique symbols as time goes on. This way, no city would be left with a symbol that does not represent it at all.
I don't know yet if City States will have their own screens/backgrounds, but if they do, these could also be changed. I don't think it would be a priority though, as City States in Civ5 often had unfitting backgrounds, but you barely notice them. I also don't know if City States have their own music as they did in Civ 5, but this is also not much of a problem and should be saved until later to address if need be. If anyone can let me know the answers to those two questions I would appreciate it.
Part 3 - Further Usage of CSR
This is another reason that I think a CSR-inspired mod would be a good idea. The basic concept is simple enough, but it could serve as a base for all sorts of mods that follow.
So..? What are your thoughts? Is this too elaborate? Is it just a pipe dream? Was anything unclear? I'm definitely interested to see what people have to say about this, because I think if a mod like this were to be made, it would solve quite a few problems. Then again, at the moment, we don't quite know if it'll be possible, so I suppose we'll have to wait.
I'm not an expert on Civ5 modding, so forgive me if I am wrong, but in Civ5, if you make a civ that uses the name of a city state from the Firaxis build of the game, then you have to provide a replacement name for the CS that is used when the modded civ is loaded. Naturally, most modders chose recognizable names, such as Montevideo, for ease of research and recognizability for mod users. A problem with this system is that if modders aren't coordinated, they might use the same name multiple times- I seem to recall that a while ago, multiple mods made Montevideo a replacement CS. With coordination this can be solved, but it's still a disadvantage nevertheless.
Problems can also arise when someone makes a modded civilization that utilizes a city name that was used by another modded civ as a CS replacement. I don't know exactly what happens in that scenario, but whatever it is, the chances are it's at least a slightly clunky solution (such as removing the CS altogether when both civs are activated). Even with those problems, in the end the system for Civ5 modding worked, because for all extents and purposes the names of city states are interchangeable. The only thing that really made each CS unique was it's jingle.
Here's where the actual problem comes into play: City States in civ 6 are not compatible with this system. Each city state grants a special ability to its Suzerain and in addition has a unique symbol. Inevitably, a modded civ will assign a CS a new name that does not fit at all with its symbol and ability. But what if I told you that I had a proposal for a system that could potentially solve those problems as well as the problems that the system for Civ5 had? Hear me out, and tell me if it would work.
The system would be a mod (perhaps developed by a collaboration of major modders) that users can download and that civs that would normally replace city states support. Players could still use those civs without the mod, as long as they're fine finding a CS that replaces Geneva with an unfitting ability and an icon with Geneva's key.
Part 1 - Organizing City States and their replacements by Ability
The first thing that would have to be done would be laying out the list of every city state ability in the game. Each ability starts off being associated with 1 CS. But here's where the mod comes in- instead of forcing modders to add new CS names every time they make a civ that utilizes a city name from a Vanilla or modded CS, the mod would add a bunch of city names in advance.
The community, or mod developers, would choose somewhere between 3-5 appropriate cities to add to each CS ability. So, for example, the CS ability of increasing wonder production by 15%, which is currently unique to Brussels, now becomes the CS ability for Brussels, Teotihuacan, Cahokia, Timbuktu, and Magelang. Now, every time Brussels would normally spawn during a game, one of those 5 cities spawn- but never more than one.
What happens if a modded civilization utilizes one of the cities in that category? Well, if the civilization supports this hypothetical mod, then it will tell the mod NOT to include that city in the list of possible city names to spawn with that ability (if the civilization is in-game preferably). So, if you have a Belgium civ loaded, then whenever Brussels would normally spawn, then either Teotihuacan, Cahokia, Timbuktu, or Magelang would spawn. If you also had a Mississippian modded civ and an Indonesian modded civ in the game, then it would be either Timbuktu or Magelang. Understand? If every city in the list cannot be spawned due to every equivalent modded civilization being in-game (which is unlikely), then the mod would automatically choose a different set of CS (ability) to spawn.
When choosing cities for the list for each ability, factors such as geographic variety, historical variety, name recognition, and whether the city was part of a larger empire should all be taken into account. I also think that the cities must be chosen so that there is balance - if cities that would likely be used by some of the most popular mods were all lumped into one or two ability lists, then players with many mods might not ever see those abilities in-game.
Part 2 - Assigning & Creating Symbols and other Assets
This is the solution to the second problem that was posed by Civ 6's new city states. The City State Replacement mod (or whatever it would end up being called) would have to provide symbols for each of the city states that it could spawn. Not all of the new potential city states would have to use new symbols - in fact, for some ability categories, like Lisbon, the same symbol could be used for all in the category (Lisbon's symbol is just waves). But there would definitely be some that need changing, such as Geneva or Jakarta. Depending on the amount of artists we have and the amount of motivation they have, we could either make individual symbols for each possible city state (unlikely) or make generic symbols that represent each ability and are used for all cities that don't have their own unique symbol. I personally think it's better to do the second option, at least initially, and then slowly add more unique symbols as time goes on. This way, no city would be left with a symbol that does not represent it at all.
I don't know yet if City States will have their own screens/backgrounds, but if they do, these could also be changed. I don't think it would be a priority though, as City States in Civ5 often had unfitting backgrounds, but you barely notice them. I also don't know if City States have their own music as they did in Civ 5, but this is also not much of a problem and should be saved until later to address if need be. If anyone can let me know the answers to those two questions I would appreciate it.
Part 3 - Further Usage of CSR
This is another reason that I think a CSR-inspired mod would be a good idea. The basic concept is simple enough, but it could serve as a base for all sorts of mods that follow.
- TSL Maps that utilize CSR could balance the location of city states much more easily, and save themselves loads of work (imagine if every TSL Earth map that wanted to move City States out of crowded zones like Europe could simply use the premade City States from a mod like this- that would save so much time and effort).
- Creators wishing to modify City States, such as giving them leaders, could do so without fear of modded civs pushing their leaders onto completely separate cities.
- A CSR-inspired mod would also provide a base for content creators who wish to add new city states & abilities into the game.
- I think perhaps the most useful thing would be that by simply adding support for CSR, any creator who makes modded civs would save plenty of time, resources, and research by not having to create a CS replacement themselves and by instead utilizing the unique system that I have proposed.
So..? What are your thoughts? Is this too elaborate? Is it just a pipe dream? Was anything unclear? I'm definitely interested to see what people have to say about this, because I think if a mod like this were to be made, it would solve quite a few problems. Then again, at the moment, we don't quite know if it'll be possible, so I suppose we'll have to wait.
Spoiler Current Progress: :
Last edited:
