TCBB
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2020
- Messages
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This thread is moderator approved.
After two great threads on specific victory types (domination & religion), I thought it would be interesting to change track to a more general topic: City-States. They're one of my favourite aspects of Civ VI, a powerful mechanic that can completely alter your game and contribute to every win condition. So in this thread, we'll be answering the question: which City-State has the best suzerain bonus?
Previous New Frontier Elimination Threads:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/religious-victory-elimination-thread.659828/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/domination-victory-elimination-thread.658838/
Gathering Storm Elimination Threads:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...he-hands-of-the-ai-elimination-thread.656981/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/music-theme-elimination-thread.651945/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/diplomatic-victory-elimination-thread.650579/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-unique-ability-elimination-thread.648643/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gathering-storm-leader-ability-elimination-thread.649233/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.647892/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/science-victory-gs-elimination-thread.654506/
Pre-Gathering Storm Elimination Threads:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civilization-ability-elimination-thread.639612/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/leader-ability-elimination-thread.637762/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.631713/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-infrastructure-elimination-thread.638688/
Rules:
- You may vote roughly every 24 hours. You add one point to one city-state and take away three points from another.
- Posts with missing upvote or downvote are skipped. Only voting posts are allowed in this thread.
- You must write a reason for each upvote and downvote.
- Voting several times for the same thing is allowed, but it is recommended that you spread your votes out.
- Delete the previous voters comments, and indicate your comments in some way (bold, italicize, color, something that will draw attention)
- We only vote basing on CURRENT iteration of city-states based on MOST RECENT PATCH. This particularly applies for city-states whose names or abilities have changed over the years through DLC/patches.
Feel free to rationalise your votes however you wish, but note that we are ONLY taking into account a city-state's suzerain bonus (i.e. the unique reward you receive for being their suzerain), and NOT their envoy bonuses (i.e. the generic rewards you receive for sending +1, +3, and +6 envoys). This was decided after an initial consultation.
Finally, there will obviously be a degree of subjectivity here. Some city-states are very powerful for one victory condition but useless for others; some offer more generalised bonuses that can contribute to all victory types. You are welcome to interpret 'the best' in whatever way you choose.
Final Rankings, Combined:
(City-states are sorted into roughly equal tiers according to when they were eliminated, as indicated in brackets. The distribution is not even, especially in A – C tiers, but the overall picture is nonetheless indicative of how powerful each city-state is)
S Tier:
1: Bologna (winner): the ultimate generalist city-state: you want to earn great people no matter what victory you pursue, and Bologna helps you earn those great people much faster – a triumph of versatility.
2: Yerevan (post #344): the ultimate specialist city-state: the ability to choose promotions for your apostles is unbelievably powerful for religion, especially in conjunction with Moksha's 'Patron Saint' promotion, with the result that a religious game with Yerevan can produce some of the fastest victories in all of Civ VI; plus, it can also contribute strongly to tourism victory if you go for a Martyr relic strategy, and getting to pick Debater on all your apostles is also useful for defending your religion even if you're not going for a religious victory.
3: Auckland (post #340): a simple explanation: production is king in 4X games, and Auckland provides extra production; and it's particularly useful after all the buffs to coastal cities over the years.
4: Zanzibar (post #335): immediately grants 12 amenities, which is far more than what the other amenity city-states can offer in the early game; this means you can afford to sell off your luxuries to the AI, as well as one copy of the cinnamon & cloves respectively, which can net you anywhere between 20~60 gold per turn – a huge increase for the early game; and later on, the extra amenities help keep your cities happy/ecstatic so you can enjoy an extra 5% or 10% to all your yields.
5: Cahokia (post #331): a universally beneficial tile improvement that can be used to enhance cities across your empire: all you need is one flat tile and one builder charge, and you immediately gain the powerful combination of housing & an amenity, and the effects get even better as the game progresses.
6: Antananarivo (post #323): a great bonus applicable to all victory types: rewards you with empire-wide culture just for earning great people, which you should be doing no matter what style you're playing, and in the late game it's not uncommon to hit the maximum +30% culture; however, in the early game it can take a while to earn enough great people for the yields to make a noticeable difference.
A Tier:
7: Nan Madol (post #308): a strong bonus that rewards you with culture just for developing coastal cities or lake cities – easily S tier on water maps; however, comes with downside that many districts receive little or no adjacency bonuses for being placed next to the coast.
8: Rapa Nui (post #304): it's easy to generate a lot of culture with Moai by placing them in triangles next to one another, especially next to the coast or volcanic soil, and they can also be spammed for tourism victory; but before you can place them you need to clear all adjacent woods & rainforests, which can require a significant investment into builder charges (particularly before Feudalism).
9: Kumasi (post #296): can grant a huge culture spike in the classical/medieval eras when you start getting traders online; only downside is that trade routes to city-states are weaker in general than internal routes or those to allies.
10: Geneva (post #290): powerful to earn extra science across your empire, and percentage-based boosts are particularly strong because they scale as the game progresses; however, all it takes is one trigger-happy AI to declare war on you or your ally, and Geneva's bonus is lost for at least 10 turns.
11: Caguana (post #287): Bateys are a very cost-effective means of boosting early culture: bonus resources are frequently found next to one another, meaning that you only need one builder charge to earn +3 culture on a single tile (rising to +5 with exploration); but this does come at the considerable cost of not harvesting those bonus resources.
12: Lahore (post #278): the Nihang is a very strong unit that can be purchased cheap and remains relevant throughout a domination game; however, it is tied to the encampment which tends to be a low-priority district; it requires you to go out of your way to secure a source of faith; and in general, its impact is less impressive because domination is already the easiest victory type.
B Tier:
13: Valletta (post #260): a useful and flexible bonus that allows you to spend faith to enhance your cities; however, there are a lot of other important things to spend faith on, plus it doesn't really tie into any one win condition.
14: Kabul (post #253): extra experience allows your units to heal twice as often and reach powerful tier 4 promotions twice as fast; but it's not going to win you domination victory by itself.
15: Brussels (post #235): building faster wonders can be beneficial for all victory types, and it stacks well with Autocracy or policy cards like Corvée; but on Deity you're only likely to build a handful of wonders, so it's less impactful than other options.
16: Buenos Aires (post #220): a solid way to top up your amenities, since bonus resources are found everywhere; however, it only makes bonus resources provide 1 amenity per type, which is far less than the 4 amenities provided by a normal luxury resource (or the 12 provided by Zanzibar), meaning that it can only go so far in improving your empire's happiness.
17: La Venta (post #209): Colossal Heads provide a strong means of generating faith and can be spammed for tourism victory; but for best yields you need to preserve woods & rainforest at the expense of chopping.
18: Granada (post #195): Alcazars grant a solid boost to culture & science; but to generate best yields you need high appeal tiles, which can sometimes be in short supply.
C Tier:
19: Akkad (post #180): a strong early-game counter to walls, though it declines in usefulness as siege units come to the fore.
20: Babylon (post #178): an effective means to catch up in science when playing a culture-heavy Civ, but little relevance if you're not earning great writers.
21: Ngazargamu (post #175): situationally powerful for purchasing units in domination games, but limited utility beyond that.
22: Hunza (post #170): much better than the similar bonuses provided by Antioch or Bandar Brunei, but still has only a limited impact; gold is one of the easiest yields to come by.
23: Taruga (post #159): theoretically, can grant +35% science in a city; but most of the time, will only grant 5% or 10% if lucky – nice yields, but not incredible.
24: Hong Kong (post #149): situationally effective in grabbing specific great people or rushing the space race; but district projects are largely irrelevant for the majority of the game.
25: Kandy (post #147): free relics are always powerful, as is extra faith; but receiving those relics is very dependent on RNG, luck, and timing.
26: Hattusa (post #145): situationally helpful in the early game if you have no iron, horses, or niter; but contributes nothing if you already have at least one copy of the strategic resource.
27: Nazca (post #140): a fun tile improvement to play around with, especially in combination with Petra; however, it can only be built on desert, it kills a tile, and the yields don't become useful until the medieval/renaissance era.
D Tier:
28: Fez (post #129): can generate a lot of science in religious games, but only if you manage to grab their suzerainty early.
29: Vatican City (post #125): situationally very effective in converting cities near your empire, but those tend to be easiest to convert anyway.
30: Muscat (post #121): can grant a lot of amenities by the end of the game; but has very little impact at the beginning when you only have one or two commercial hubs.
31: Antioch (post #119): an extra +2 or +3 gold per trade route is nice, but still underwhelming.
32: Mitla (post #103): +15% growth modifier is not very helpful as population is usually constrained by housing caps, not growth, plus it only applies to campus cities.
E Tier:
33: Jerusalem (post #82): passive pressure is underwhelming, and only affects cities near your empire.
34: Singapore (post #76): production boost is localised and underwhelming; Wisselbanken but worse.
35: Armagh (post #65): the Monastery's housing is fine, but the faith and healing bonuses are minimal; a poor use of a tile.
36: Bandar Brunei (post #62): requires micro-managing of trade routes for very little pay-off.
37: Mohenjo-Daro (post #52): extra housing can be useful, but fresh water is not hard to find; and if you're relying on M.-D. for housing but lose the suzerainty, your cities immediately become untenable.
38: Mexico City (post #49): a late game bonus that won't make much difference to your empire, as it's easy to get cities within 6 tiles of an industrial zone.
39: Cardiff (post #44): bonus only comes into effect in the late game and only applies to harbor cities, and power is not a hard resource to come by.
F Tier:
40: Vilnius (post #32): in order to function, requires high adjacency theatre squares and high level alliances, both of which are uncommon.
41: Preslav (post #22): the extra loyalty will only be relevant in rare situations, and is too low to make a difference anyway.
42: Lisbon (post #17): a low-impact bonus that only sporadically comes into effect.
Final Rankings, Sorted by City-State Type:
(Overall rankings indicated in brackets)
Cultural City-States:
1: Antananarivo (6th).
2: Nan Madol (7th).
3: Rapa Nui (8th).
4: Kumasi: (9th).
5: Caguana (11th).
6: Mohenjo-Daro (37th).
7: Vilnius (40th).
Industrial City-States:
1: Zanzibar (4th).
2: Brussels (15th).
3: Buenos Aires (16th).
4: Hong Kong (24th).
5: Singapore (34th).
6: Mexico City (38th).
7: Cardiff (39th).
Militaristic City-States:
1: Lahore (12th).
2: Valletta: (13th).
3: Kabul (14th).
4: Granada (18th).
5: Akkad (19th).
6: Ngazargamu (21st).
7: Preslav (41st).
Religious City-States:
1: Yerevan (2nd).
2: La Venta (17th).
3: Kandy (25th).
4: Nazca (27th).
5: Vatican City (29th).
6: Jerusalem (33rd).
7: Armagh (35th).
Scientific City-States:
1. Bologna (1st).
2: Geneva (10th).
3: Babylon (20th).
4: Taruga (23rd).
5: Hattusa (26th).
6: Fez (28th).
7: Mitla (32nd).
Trade City-States:
1: Zanzibar (4th).
2: Cahokia (5th).
3: Hunza (22nd).
4: Muscat (30th).
5: Antioch (31st).
6: Bandar Brunei (36th).
7: Lisbon (42nd).
After two great threads on specific victory types (domination & religion), I thought it would be interesting to change track to a more general topic: City-States. They're one of my favourite aspects of Civ VI, a powerful mechanic that can completely alter your game and contribute to every win condition. So in this thread, we'll be answering the question: which City-State has the best suzerain bonus?
Previous New Frontier Elimination Threads:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/religious-victory-elimination-thread.659828/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/domination-victory-elimination-thread.658838/
Gathering Storm Elimination Threads:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...he-hands-of-the-ai-elimination-thread.656981/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/music-theme-elimination-thread.651945/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/diplomatic-victory-elimination-thread.650579/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-unique-ability-elimination-thread.648643/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gathering-storm-leader-ability-elimination-thread.649233/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.647892/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/science-victory-gs-elimination-thread.654506/
Pre-Gathering Storm Elimination Threads:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civilization-ability-elimination-thread.639612/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/leader-ability-elimination-thread.637762/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.631713/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-infrastructure-elimination-thread.638688/
Rules:
- You may vote roughly every 24 hours. You add one point to one city-state and take away three points from another.
- Posts with missing upvote or downvote are skipped. Only voting posts are allowed in this thread.
- You must write a reason for each upvote and downvote.
- Voting several times for the same thing is allowed, but it is recommended that you spread your votes out.
- Delete the previous voters comments, and indicate your comments in some way (bold, italicize, color, something that will draw attention)
- We only vote basing on CURRENT iteration of city-states based on MOST RECENT PATCH. This particularly applies for city-states whose names or abilities have changed over the years through DLC/patches.
Feel free to rationalise your votes however you wish, but note that we are ONLY taking into account a city-state's suzerain bonus (i.e. the unique reward you receive for being their suzerain), and NOT their envoy bonuses (i.e. the generic rewards you receive for sending +1, +3, and +6 envoys). This was decided after an initial consultation.
Finally, there will obviously be a degree of subjectivity here. Some city-states are very powerful for one victory condition but useless for others; some offer more generalised bonuses that can contribute to all victory types. You are welcome to interpret 'the best' in whatever way you choose.
Final Rankings, Combined:
(City-states are sorted into roughly equal tiers according to when they were eliminated, as indicated in brackets. The distribution is not even, especially in A – C tiers, but the overall picture is nonetheless indicative of how powerful each city-state is)
S Tier:
1: Bologna (winner): the ultimate generalist city-state: you want to earn great people no matter what victory you pursue, and Bologna helps you earn those great people much faster – a triumph of versatility.
2: Yerevan (post #344): the ultimate specialist city-state: the ability to choose promotions for your apostles is unbelievably powerful for religion, especially in conjunction with Moksha's 'Patron Saint' promotion, with the result that a religious game with Yerevan can produce some of the fastest victories in all of Civ VI; plus, it can also contribute strongly to tourism victory if you go for a Martyr relic strategy, and getting to pick Debater on all your apostles is also useful for defending your religion even if you're not going for a religious victory.
3: Auckland (post #340): a simple explanation: production is king in 4X games, and Auckland provides extra production; and it's particularly useful after all the buffs to coastal cities over the years.
4: Zanzibar (post #335): immediately grants 12 amenities, which is far more than what the other amenity city-states can offer in the early game; this means you can afford to sell off your luxuries to the AI, as well as one copy of the cinnamon & cloves respectively, which can net you anywhere between 20~60 gold per turn – a huge increase for the early game; and later on, the extra amenities help keep your cities happy/ecstatic so you can enjoy an extra 5% or 10% to all your yields.
5: Cahokia (post #331): a universally beneficial tile improvement that can be used to enhance cities across your empire: all you need is one flat tile and one builder charge, and you immediately gain the powerful combination of housing & an amenity, and the effects get even better as the game progresses.
6: Antananarivo (post #323): a great bonus applicable to all victory types: rewards you with empire-wide culture just for earning great people, which you should be doing no matter what style you're playing, and in the late game it's not uncommon to hit the maximum +30% culture; however, in the early game it can take a while to earn enough great people for the yields to make a noticeable difference.
A Tier:
7: Nan Madol (post #308): a strong bonus that rewards you with culture just for developing coastal cities or lake cities – easily S tier on water maps; however, comes with downside that many districts receive little or no adjacency bonuses for being placed next to the coast.
8: Rapa Nui (post #304): it's easy to generate a lot of culture with Moai by placing them in triangles next to one another, especially next to the coast or volcanic soil, and they can also be spammed for tourism victory; but before you can place them you need to clear all adjacent woods & rainforests, which can require a significant investment into builder charges (particularly before Feudalism).
9: Kumasi (post #296): can grant a huge culture spike in the classical/medieval eras when you start getting traders online; only downside is that trade routes to city-states are weaker in general than internal routes or those to allies.
10: Geneva (post #290): powerful to earn extra science across your empire, and percentage-based boosts are particularly strong because they scale as the game progresses; however, all it takes is one trigger-happy AI to declare war on you or your ally, and Geneva's bonus is lost for at least 10 turns.
11: Caguana (post #287): Bateys are a very cost-effective means of boosting early culture: bonus resources are frequently found next to one another, meaning that you only need one builder charge to earn +3 culture on a single tile (rising to +5 with exploration); but this does come at the considerable cost of not harvesting those bonus resources.
12: Lahore (post #278): the Nihang is a very strong unit that can be purchased cheap and remains relevant throughout a domination game; however, it is tied to the encampment which tends to be a low-priority district; it requires you to go out of your way to secure a source of faith; and in general, its impact is less impressive because domination is already the easiest victory type.
B Tier:
13: Valletta (post #260): a useful and flexible bonus that allows you to spend faith to enhance your cities; however, there are a lot of other important things to spend faith on, plus it doesn't really tie into any one win condition.
14: Kabul (post #253): extra experience allows your units to heal twice as often and reach powerful tier 4 promotions twice as fast; but it's not going to win you domination victory by itself.
15: Brussels (post #235): building faster wonders can be beneficial for all victory types, and it stacks well with Autocracy or policy cards like Corvée; but on Deity you're only likely to build a handful of wonders, so it's less impactful than other options.
16: Buenos Aires (post #220): a solid way to top up your amenities, since bonus resources are found everywhere; however, it only makes bonus resources provide 1 amenity per type, which is far less than the 4 amenities provided by a normal luxury resource (or the 12 provided by Zanzibar), meaning that it can only go so far in improving your empire's happiness.
17: La Venta (post #209): Colossal Heads provide a strong means of generating faith and can be spammed for tourism victory; but for best yields you need to preserve woods & rainforest at the expense of chopping.
18: Granada (post #195): Alcazars grant a solid boost to culture & science; but to generate best yields you need high appeal tiles, which can sometimes be in short supply.
C Tier:
19: Akkad (post #180): a strong early-game counter to walls, though it declines in usefulness as siege units come to the fore.
20: Babylon (post #178): an effective means to catch up in science when playing a culture-heavy Civ, but little relevance if you're not earning great writers.
21: Ngazargamu (post #175): situationally powerful for purchasing units in domination games, but limited utility beyond that.
22: Hunza (post #170): much better than the similar bonuses provided by Antioch or Bandar Brunei, but still has only a limited impact; gold is one of the easiest yields to come by.
23: Taruga (post #159): theoretically, can grant +35% science in a city; but most of the time, will only grant 5% or 10% if lucky – nice yields, but not incredible.
24: Hong Kong (post #149): situationally effective in grabbing specific great people or rushing the space race; but district projects are largely irrelevant for the majority of the game.
25: Kandy (post #147): free relics are always powerful, as is extra faith; but receiving those relics is very dependent on RNG, luck, and timing.
26: Hattusa (post #145): situationally helpful in the early game if you have no iron, horses, or niter; but contributes nothing if you already have at least one copy of the strategic resource.
27: Nazca (post #140): a fun tile improvement to play around with, especially in combination with Petra; however, it can only be built on desert, it kills a tile, and the yields don't become useful until the medieval/renaissance era.
D Tier:
28: Fez (post #129): can generate a lot of science in religious games, but only if you manage to grab their suzerainty early.
29: Vatican City (post #125): situationally very effective in converting cities near your empire, but those tend to be easiest to convert anyway.
30: Muscat (post #121): can grant a lot of amenities by the end of the game; but has very little impact at the beginning when you only have one or two commercial hubs.
31: Antioch (post #119): an extra +2 or +3 gold per trade route is nice, but still underwhelming.
32: Mitla (post #103): +15% growth modifier is not very helpful as population is usually constrained by housing caps, not growth, plus it only applies to campus cities.
E Tier:
33: Jerusalem (post #82): passive pressure is underwhelming, and only affects cities near your empire.
34: Singapore (post #76): production boost is localised and underwhelming; Wisselbanken but worse.
35: Armagh (post #65): the Monastery's housing is fine, but the faith and healing bonuses are minimal; a poor use of a tile.
36: Bandar Brunei (post #62): requires micro-managing of trade routes for very little pay-off.
37: Mohenjo-Daro (post #52): extra housing can be useful, but fresh water is not hard to find; and if you're relying on M.-D. for housing but lose the suzerainty, your cities immediately become untenable.
38: Mexico City (post #49): a late game bonus that won't make much difference to your empire, as it's easy to get cities within 6 tiles of an industrial zone.
39: Cardiff (post #44): bonus only comes into effect in the late game and only applies to harbor cities, and power is not a hard resource to come by.
F Tier:
40: Vilnius (post #32): in order to function, requires high adjacency theatre squares and high level alliances, both of which are uncommon.
41: Preslav (post #22): the extra loyalty will only be relevant in rare situations, and is too low to make a difference anyway.
42: Lisbon (post #17): a low-impact bonus that only sporadically comes into effect.
Final Rankings, Sorted by City-State Type:
(Overall rankings indicated in brackets)
Cultural City-States:
1: Antananarivo (6th).
2: Nan Madol (7th).
3: Rapa Nui (8th).
4: Kumasi: (9th).
5: Caguana (11th).
6: Mohenjo-Daro (37th).
7: Vilnius (40th).
Industrial City-States:
1: Zanzibar (4th).
2: Brussels (15th).
3: Buenos Aires (16th).
4: Hong Kong (24th).
5: Singapore (34th).
6: Mexico City (38th).
7: Cardiff (39th).
Militaristic City-States:
1: Lahore (12th).
2: Valletta: (13th).
3: Kabul (14th).
4: Granada (18th).
5: Akkad (19th).
6: Ngazargamu (21st).
7: Preslav (41st).
Religious City-States:
1: Yerevan (2nd).
2: La Venta (17th).
3: Kandy (25th).
4: Nazca (27th).
5: Vatican City (29th).
6: Jerusalem (33rd).
7: Armagh (35th).
Scientific City-States:
1. Bologna (1st).
2: Geneva (10th).
3: Babylon (20th).
4: Taruga (23rd).
5: Hattusa (26th).
6: Fez (28th).
7: Mitla (32nd).
Trade City-States:
1: Zanzibar (4th).
2: Cahokia (5th).
3: Hunza (22nd).
4: Muscat (30th).
5: Antioch (31st).
6: Bandar Brunei (36th).
7: Lisbon (42nd).
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