City View & Land Development

[Beloyar]

Since the game is sometimes played without wars for an extremely long period, there is not much of anything else left to do.

To take the boredom out, I propose:
• more freedom in city planning in the city view screen, and
• more variety in land development

In city view, we could put buildings where we want, choose buildings of different styles, place parks, mountains, beaches and palaces like we want, so that we can enjoy the view and feel like we are part of the process. Place more residential buildings and houses in the city.

In land development we should be able to create different types of farms - crops, grazing, fisheries, gardens, suburban, etc. - quarries and mines of different kinds, small settlements, resorts, college towns, etc. Hide railroads into tunnels in mountain terrain so that it wouldn't look so lame. Leave forests on mountains and hills. Leave some forests on flat tiles even after we build farms on them. There is a lot of difference between rice farms of the Far East, banana plantations in Africa, and wheat fields in Europe.

Maybe bring back the coastal waves animations.

Some historic fortresses should not automatically turn into modern pillboxes. I'd like to leave them as Midieval castles in the countryside - this sort of thing makes my country more historically precious to me - leaves my personal implrint/landmark in the history of the land.

Cities you conquer should retain their foreign culture look for a long time. Their surviving buildings should also look foreign. That's how it is in our world. This makes it more interesting to actually see and experience what you have conquered - the booty you see is your reward.

 

[sealman]

If you want city planning, play sim city. Besides, I think having the city view customizable would take developmental time away from non fluff projects.

However, I do like the idea of some fortresses retaining the older graphic.

 

[biggamer132]

If you want city planning, play sim city. Besides, I think having the city view customizable would take developmental time away from non fluff projects.

However, I do like the idea of some fortresses retaining the older graphic.

It's like how you get to explore old castles in Europe. Besides, it would add tourism to the nearest friendly city once you have an old fortress from another age.

 

[Beloyar]

If you want city planning, play sim city. Besides, I think having the city view customizable would take developmental time away from non fluff projects.

Looks like you don't have much time at all if you can't handle little improvements. Maybe you should play less cim city.
how much more time do you need for civ? Are you kidding me? Most of the playing is way too basic, especially if there is no war.

 

[Beloyar]

It's like how you get to explore old castles in Europe. Besides, it would add tourism to the nearest friendly city once you have an old fortress from another age.

Tourism is good, adds revenue. I like it as an improvement in a monotonous looking landscape.

 

[sealman]

Looks like you don't have much time at all if you can't handle little improvements. Maybe you should play less cim city.
how much more time do you need for civ? Are you kidding me? Most of the playing is way too basic, especially if there is no war.

I am not talking about my time, I am talking about the developers time. I would rather have them spend their resources on making the AI function better than giving people the ability to move things around in the city view.

And I don't play SimCity.

 

[Beloyar]

I am not talking about my time, I am talking about the developers time. I would rather have them spend their resources on making the AI function better than giving people the ability to move things around in the city view.

And I don't play SimCity.

So you're one of those who tries to diminish the importance and originality of other people's ideas and suggestions just so that you can have it your way.

The worse thing possible is people without ideas but with agendas.

 

[sealman]

So you're one of those who tries to diminish the importance and originality of other people's ideas and suggestions just so that you can have it your way.

The worse thing possible is people without ideas but with agendas.

If you don't want negative comments about your ideas, post something to that effect in your original message. This is a discussion forum. You posted an idea and I commented on it. If you do not like it, tough.

And yes, I have an agenda here. It is probably shared by everyone who contributes to this forum, including you. And that is for Civ 4 to be the best possible game it can be. Will we all agree on what should be included or excluded to make that possible, of course not. It is up to the makers to make the final call.

 

[Arathorn]

And many of us, like sealman, want GAMEPLAY to be the focus, not minor irritating details like moving stuff around in the city view (there's a city view?). And for every hour and dollar the developers spend on worthless wastes of fluff like this idea (and there will be some, no doubt), that's an hour and dollar not spent on valuable things (like balancing the game, building the AI, etc.).

There are LOTS of game that focus on the fluff -- play one of those but let Civ IV be a real game, OK?

Arathorn

 

[Beloyar]

You don't know what you're talking about.

If you want city planning, play sim city...

And don't tell me what games I should or shouldn't play, unless you want me to tell you what to do...

You post your opinion. I post mine.

...Civ 4 to be the best possible game it can be...

Just as you said it, doesn't mean your agenda is preferred. City view and landscaping would be a great improvement without a doubt, becuase currently they are really lame. But how much time developers have is a totally different matter. There is a poll and other threads out there dealing with time management, if you want to be a proponent. But when people talk about improvement ideas you should learn to say something about the topic rather than cop out and point to the one and only thing on your mind: someone else's time...

 

[Beloyar]

Same goes to you Arathorn

 

[sealman]

I did say something about the topic. I said I would rather have them spend their time on other things as opposed to fluff. And I also said that I liked your idea that some historic fortresses should not automatically turn into modern day pillboxes.

And I did not tell you to go play simcity, i said that if you want to deal with city planning, then play simcity. It was a suggestion to play a game that is designed to do what you want to do.

Oh, and besides being the only person who is allowed to have an idea about what will make Civ 4 a better game, I see you are a mind read

If you can post your opinons, why can Arathron and I post conflicting ones?

Oh, and besides being the person whose every idea is apparently a great one, I see you are also a mind reader...

...and point to the one and only thing on your mind: someone else's time...

I can tell you that there are a lot of other things on my mind than other people's time. And wether you can accept or not, there is a finite amount of time that the develpers have to put into game. And my opinion is that that time should be better spent improving the non-fluff portions of the game.

 

[Beloyar]

I did say something about the topic. I said I would rather have them spend their time on other things as opposed to fluff. And I also said that I liked your idea that some historic fortresses should not automatically turn into modern day pillboxes.

Well, thank you, but you're still not making sense. The condescending way in which you call graphic improvements "fluff" just exposes your nearsightedness, lack of imagination, and failure to comprehend visual communication.

And I did not tell you to go play simcity, i said that if you want to deal with city planning, then play simcity. It was a suggestion to play a game that is designed to do what you want to do.

I don't like your suggestion and your tone. If everyone was like you, then what's the point of having an Ideas & Suggestions forum? D'uh! Maybe we should close it and tell everyone to play other games! That's you right there.

...I can tell you that there are a lot of other things on my mind than other people's time. And wether you can accept or not, there is a finite amount of time that the develpers have to put into game. And my opinion is that that time should be better spent improving the non-fluff portions of the game.

You don't know much about developers either. There are programmers and there are graphic artists, animators, and designers. The last three groups do not work on gameplay projects involving programming, they work on the visual aspects. And no matter how much gameplay you want, graphic modellers will be working only on the graphic part of the game, and these are suggestions for them, not for you.

 

[sealman]

I never said that graphic improvements were fluff. I am talking about the city view which, in its current state, has no effect on game play. the city view is in the game only to graphically enhance the whole concept. I accept that, i understand that, but I don't use it because it serves no purpose except taking up hard drive space on my PC. So how does this position show my lack of immagination and inability to comhrehend visual communication?? Where is the communication of seeing an image of things that I built in a city?? I already know what is there, why do I need to see it displayed??

You don't like me tone, fine. I don't like you inabilty to acept ideas that don't conform to your way of thinking. And yes, this is an idea and suggestion forum. You made a suggestion and I commented on it. If you don't want a discussion on your ideas, why bother posting them?

By the way, programmers DEVELOP the code, graphic artists DEVELOP the graphics, animators DEVELOP the animation, and designers DEVELOP the game design and concepts. They are all DEVELOPERS. If they can incorporate yours stupid idea without hindering gampeplay development or damaging the whole game, fine. I don't care if it is done or not.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

To be fair, Beloyar, you described peoples ideas on Immigration as 'LAME', IIRC, but no-one stuck the knife into you over it-so I think its a little bit unfair to attack Arathorn and Sealman so vehemently just because they don't like or agree with your idea!
Also, any graphical issue in a game, which has no direct effect on gameplay mechanics is called FLUFF or EYECANDY. Its not supposed to be a denigration of the concept, its just a pseudo-technical term. After all, if FLUFF/EYECANDY were not important AT ALL, then we'd all be sitting around either playing MUD's on the internet, or playing 'The Hobbit' on Commodore 64 !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[SilverKnight]

More apartments and condos in modern times, tenements in industrial ages, and houses in general! I hate seeing a size 15 city with a population of 1,220,000 with exactly 8 houses and 4 streets!!! Bigger looking cities, and a zoom function for the Wonders and Improvements. Maybe a way to tell if units are garrisoned or not...

 

[Beloyar]

You're not such a post DEVELOPer yourself, sealman, and you missed the point. Those who work on graphics will improve graphics, which is the field in which I suggested improvements, and they will not be working on gameplay because it's not what they do. They do graphics, and my ideas are for them - I'm their fan. Fluff to you - anything that's not gameplay and my suggestion on graphics improvements. Maybe they should make games in black & white just for you.

This suggestion is not about gameplay, at least not how you see it. You can't take an idea that you can't comprehend and make something out of it. This further means you're not a problem solver, but on the other hand, closer to a demagog.

I was looking forward to developing my ideas with others, but it seems you stole the show and changed the topic. You don't have a clue as to how people communicate visually. It's a much older form of communication than the alphabet. People want to see cities inside for the same reason they look at the game map. Otherwise the game would be layed out on a grid matrix with 1s and 0s instead of hills and plains.

I explained in the first post why these improvements are needed: to pass the time waiting for your turn. This means that it would be better if we were able to access the city screen between our turns and either watch or make things happen in it. (This is my version of gameplay improvement, do get rid of the boredom between turns.) There are already different temples and cathedrals available, depending on culture. I want to specify which of these I put in my cities, and I want more choices of buildings - a graphic easy enough to make even for me. It's also great to see the city you conquered - what it looks like inside, culturally, architecturally, etc. If your northern European civ captures a mediterranean city, the city should retain its architecture and mediterranean looks, so you can enjoy your new "trophy." Likewise, if your mediterranean cities are conquered by others, your cultural legacy and population will remain there for a long time as evidence of your past achievements.

More different land development tiles would be great and would make the land look less monotonous in modern age.

And sealman, you don't have to comment on these ideas again. You already said you don't care.

 

[Beloyar]

What do you want with me, Aussie Lurker? You want a piece of me too?
Were you too chicken to make a point on the other thread, so you post it here? And you also take it out of context.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Not at all, Beloyar. My point was simply that you didn't like my idea, you said so and thats all there was to it. You're not the first and, I feel certain, you WON'T be the last. It really is like water off a ducks back to me. You should take the same approach and not let these things get to you-you'll live longer !
Anyway, back on topic, I happen to agree that more graphics options (and better eyecandy) would be nice, and graphics was one of the BEST improvements of civ2 over civ3-and yet they were also still able to introduce a better AI, better gameplay features (like culture, nationality, war weariness and borders etc etc) and just a more immersive game environment all round-which means that graphics/gameplay does not have to be a 'Zero Sum Game'!
Anyways, I guess what I'm trying to say is that, though I'm not so sure about changing buildings around bit, I would like the city view to be more reflective of things like:

1) The true size and development level of the city.

2) More reflective of the culture to which the city ORIGINALLY belonged.

and YES I would like to be able to view my city screen between turns.

So, you have around a 95% agreement from me on this issue-now go take a bex and lie down !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[sealman]

Beloyar. I will comment on your ideas all I want until I either get bored or a moderator shuts me up. And I probably never would have revisted this thread if you did not attack me.

And if you want to know what I want graphically. i would love to see more graphic representation of the units. Some better death animations, ect. Some terrain improvements and tile sets that look more like some of the mods here. I never indicated that I would prefer a black and white game and I don't know where you got that idea.

And how did I steal your tread? You posted an idea in a discussion forum and I commented on it. Your the one who took offense because my thinking was not in tune to yours. And regarding the developers, and I am using the whole CIV 4 team here, don't work in the way that you are visualizing. Take a look at Conquests to see where I get this. The graphic artisit never made the new improvements and wonders available in the city view because they decided that they would work on other things that have more impact. There is a statement from Friaxis to that effect somewhere in the Conquests forum.