Civ 4, a failure made successful by money and absence of community

[Hypus]

Oh look - no real rebuttals from fan-whores - what a surprise!

Totally agree with you Xguild. All it takes is a few minutes for these guys to tell us what is happening. These fan whores are that gullible and under the thumb that they will simply let themselves be totally walked over for the sake of loyalty. But loyalty to what? It can't be due to your personal relationships on the forum with the Firaxis guys because - guess what - they don't speak to us! So basically you fan whores defend Big Business for nothing!

WTF was that? rofl

I barely played any CIV games before this one. I say that CIV4 is GAME OF THE YEAR without question--people will be playing this game for years to come--without the whiners.

Anyone that buys/tries/tests alot of new software and games will tell you CIV4 is one of the cleanest releases in years in a market saturated with ****e.

wake up and get a real cause people--you are wasting your time here now.

 

[MattJek]

This is appaling.

The man writes a well written post about how the game has some flaws in it that he would like to see fixed. A game that he has payed money for. Money that was earned by doing some sort of work. He has a right to demand a fix for a game he has payed good money for.

This game is running just fine for me, but I will never tell people who are having problems that they are not allowed to complain. Ubiquitous is right. Seriously ask yourself why you are defending a company you have no real connection with so passionately. To say someone is too stupid, or doesn't have enough money to upgrade to the latest hardware, and then say thats the reason the game doesnt work is the most irresponsible thing you could do. There used to be a time when mininum requirements would run the game as it should be run. At no point on the box does it say, if you play with minimum requirements you will not be able to run this game properly.

Telling him that he should go do something else with his life if he doesnt like the game is about the most assanine thing you could tell him. He PAYED for the game. Throwing 60 bucks down on a game, having it not work, and then saying "Oh well! That doesn't work, won't play that". That sounds like a good idea to you, you wouldnt be immensly pissed that you just threw away 60 bucks?

Christ just give him some respect, he's not being lame about it.

I payed just as much as anyone else for the game and it didnt work properly at first. So with a lil elbo grease, and my parttime income ( about $225 Canadian a month) I was able to get it running respectably. I got new drivers, updated my ram, cleaned up my OS and my Harddrive...etc etc. Judging by the fact that he has a family he probably has fulltime income and if Civ4 is such a big part of his life I think he can scrounge up a few bucks to update his machine a bit. ( and if he doesnt have a fulltime income than he should be out looking for one and not wasting his time on video games)

Secondly, why is he attacking a company he has no close connections to. Ok, the game has bugs and doest work 100%. Guess what, we've all know that since the game came out almost a month ago, no need to keep repeating it. Also, read his first post, do you think that was mature for a man with a family to just lash out like that calling us "fanboys" or whatever. We all just made up stupid replies to the original post because most of us are sick of whiners posting useless threads like that on this forum.

 

[Ubiquitous]

I acknowledge that the game isn't flawless. but what did you expect? A perfect game on the first frickin' release?

And here is what is wrong with the computer games industry and its gullible consumers. Of course we should expect the game to work first time! Would you buy a car and expect it to work first time, or a radio? What about a house: would you find it acceptable if you paid for a four bedroom house only to find that the builder had not put a roof on it when you moved in? Would the games industry allow me to pay installments for the game, depending on whether I found it enjoyable/it worked well on my machine? No, understandably they don't. So why should I pay for a game with my limited funds that I cannot play when I did my job in meeting the rec. specs? I could have spent my money on an other game that actually works [such as Football Manager 2006] but instead I stayed loyal to civ.

I honestly cannot see how I can be in the wrong. Think logially for once, people:

Me: Paid my cash on time, ensured I met the rec. spec [not just minimum].

Firaxis: Released a game that does not work on my system. No announcement of whether they are even looking to fix it or not. My money nicely lining their pockets.

 

[kaptainlange]

I payed just as much as anyone else for the game and it didnt work properly at first. So with a lil elbo grease, and my parttime income ( about $225 Canadian a month) I was able to get it running respectably. I got new drivers, updated my ram, cleaned up my OS and my Harddrive...etc etc. Judging by the fact that he has a family he probably has fulltime income and if Civ4 is such a big part of his life I think he can scrounge up a few bucks to update his machine a bit. ( and if he doesnt have a fulltime income than he should be out looking for one and not wasting his time on video games)

Secondly, why is he attacking a company he has no close connections to. Ok, the game has bugs and doest work 100%. Guess what, we've all know that since the game came out almost a month ago, no need to keep repeating it. Also, read his first post, do you think that was mature for a man with a family to just lash out like that calling us "fanboys" or whatever. We all just made up stupid replies to the original post because most of us are sick of whiners posting useless threads like that on this forum.

You're absolutely right, his argument isn't 100 percent sound. The point is, as a person who pays for a product, why is it up to you to ensure it works as it was supposed to. Aside from installing the game and ensuring proper updates, why does he need to apply workaround x and fix #2 just to play a game he payed for. Regardless of how much money he makes, mind you we don't even know what his computer specs are, why should he have to upgrade a system he was told would run the game.

He is a bit rash in calling the game a failure, though I don't think he is too hard on Firaxis. I just know that the only way to avoid having a situation where it is completely acceptable to release a buggy game, a la "Joint Operations", is to complain about it. Hit them where it hurts, the pocket book. As for those whiners who have no rhyme or reason to their arguments, well just ignore em. That's what I do. Nothing hurts more than seeing your thread plummet with 0 replies. I would know

 

[Ubiquitous]

I payed just as much as anyone else for the game and it didnt work properly at first. So with a lil elbo grease, and my parttime income ( about $225 Canadian a month) I was able to get it running respectably. I got new drivers, updated my ram, cleaned up my OS and my Harddrive...etc etc. Judging by the fact that he has a family he probably has fulltime income and if Civ4 is such a big part of his life I think he can scrounge up a few bucks to update his machine a bit. ( and if he doesnt have a fulltime income than he should be out looking for one and not wasting his time on video games)

Secondly, why is he attacking a company he has no close connections to. Ok, the game has bugs and doest work 100%. Guess what, we've all know that since the game came out almost a month ago, no need to keep repeating it. Also, read his first post, do you think that was mature for a man with a family to just lash out like that calling us "fanboys" or whatever. We all just made up stupid replies to the original post because most of us are sick of whiners posting useless threads like that on this forum.

Read my post again: I said 'some of us' - not myself. I have no family to speak of and if I did I would not be on here. Some people, however, do have these constraints and are unable to voice their concerns here or even find the time to 'upgrade ram' and 'install new drivers'.

Do you think that it's honest of a company to sell you a product that [I assume] your machine met the minimum specs for, only for you to have to spend hundreds of dollars to get working?

If you think this is acceptable: well done, you are a fan boy.

 

[Mythrl]

Basically the game works alright for me. I've only got a 64MB graphics card but I did boost my ram up from 512 to 1 gig just to play this game. I've had to use rivatuner to boost the speed on my memory card and I've boosted my virtual memory too and that combo seems to have smoothed the game out for me, but every game I've played has been on a standard size map. I'm not sure how well it would go if I moved to a bigger map.

Now I think the main poster is part right and part wrong. Firaxis hasn't done nothing and denied there is any problems. They released a patch to fix the ATI card problems almost right away. Now as for how the problems could have been missed is completely beyond me. The thing is anytime you make a product that doesn't work right for a significant number of people, it means you have a quality issue. Apple has gotten the same flack for the ipod nano.

I think the problem in large part may be that the printed minimum reqs that were probably meant for the game to be played at the absolute minimum settings. Low graphics, no sound, tiny map, with minimal enemy civs. The thing is nobody actually wants to play a game like that.

And the comments some people have made about getting over it. or learn how to fix your computer etc. are completely missing the point. When you buy something, it should work. End of story. You don't buy a car, only to find out you have to change this part, and tweak those settings or else the car won't run properly. You buy it and should be able to drive it off the lot and enjoy it right away. I'm considering myself lucky that I'm able to enjoy this game because it really is a lot of fun.

I do think they will get the game working better with a patch, and hopefully soon. Maybe they don't want to rush a patch out in case it doesn't work right off the bat

 

[xguild]

First let me just say thank you for some of the well thought out reply's, it doesn't go unappriciate despite some of you don't nescesserly agree with me.

I want to reply to a couple of people who posed respectable questions, which I think have answer that might suprise some of you.

"Why should I call game failure because of compatibility problem.

The fact is that such problems occur only for minority of players (however it is big or vocal), and that they are usually fixed with first patches, if not even with just driver updates. They don't affect other players.

Why would I call game failure especially if it works good for me?
And is addictive?"

I'm not asking anyone to jump on board and scream out FAILURE at the top of their lungs and try to bring Firaxis down like some heratic that should be burned at the stake. Quite the opposite. I have nothing but respect and appriciation for the many developers out there who are breathing life into a PC gaming industry that has been on a decline for many years despite my current furstration. I do however feel there is a connection between the gaming community and the success of the PC gaming industry. Developers despite the fact that they are all run by gamers, are also corporation who's sole purpose is to make money. As such the responsibility of the consumer is to push back anything that doesn't meet an acceptable standard to ensure that money is not all it's about. In our case the consumers are gamers, the people on this very forum. The acceptable quality and standards are the invisible acceptance of the gaming community. This is what I have issue with, in every post that I have read when someone claims that there game runs perfect there is always a "but" followed with an immediate excuse for why the "but" is acceptable. The game runs great for me, people say, but I have problems running huge maps, I don't mind though, I can live without that. My question is why is not being able to run huge maps acceptable? Why is it excusable?

You people need to get over yourselves. That is, on both sides. yes, I said BOTH.

For the people going 'Ow... just another rant/whine'; If you have nothing to say that is worth listening to, don't say anything.

As for the people complaining about the game; Sure, it sucks that the game has issues like these. But **** happens. If you feel that you have been cheated out of your money, that's your perogative. But don't post it on fan-forums. Send it to the appropriate people. I can understand certain people around here gettign annoyed by posts like this. They have absolutely NO relevance when it comes to the game itself. Period.

On top of that, me with my mediocre systems which aren't even set up as a gaming rig (AMD Athlon 3000+, ATi Radeon 9550, 512 MD DDR RAM & laptop with even lower specs), run this game just fine. Only huge maps are unplayable in late eras. If it were truly a bug, I would have the same issues as you and i shouldn't be able to play at all without having major problems. And there are plenty of people who can also play the game just fine.

So, the conclusion must be that the game is either incompatible (at the moment) with certain hardware specs and because of that make certain aspects of the program buggy (as such, the problem is NOT primarily a bug in the game) or your computer software configuration is wonky (which isn't nessecarily your fault as this kind of thing is very sensitive and has numerous aspects that could cause the problem). The first can only be partially be fixed by the developer, and the second one is out of their hands entirely.

I'm sorry, but i just can't take anyone seriously if they claim this game is a failure when i'm enjoying it thouroughly, and many others are as well. just because YOU have problems, doesn't make the game a bad game. That's pretty much the worst line of reasoning you can come up with concerning this topic.

I acknowledge that the game isn't flawless. but what did you expect? A perfect game on the first frickin' release? It's not like the game has already been out for years or something. Ofcourse developers will claim the game works perfectly. Every sane company does that. No game is perfect, but every single released piece of programming is advertised as the next generation of gaming standards. You should try a bit of common sense here.

To anyone who is still complaining about CivIV; Go away and make your own damn game if you think you know everything so damned well.

And don't get me wrong, I know it's frustrating since I've also been on the receiving end of the Stick o' Hurt when it comes to games not working properly. So don't say 'Your game works fine, so you have no right to speak'. i know where you're coming from. Nevertheless, i find your entire argument wholly unfounded at the moment.

-------

I think this can be considered a decent rebuttal without resorting to the general namecalling and stuff

Again this post is just another example of a devided community and fans that are the first to line up and make excuses on the behalf of developer.

You begin your post by saying the game runs fine and you have no problems, follow up with an acknowledgment that the game "Isn't flawless" and then start excusing the gaming industry by saying "but what did you expect? A perfect game on the first frickin' release? It's not like the game has already been out for years or something. Ofcourse developers will claim the game works perfectly. Every sane company does that. No game is perfect, but every single released piece of programming is advertised as the next generation of gaming standards. You should try a bit of common sense here."

Naturally there is an immediate but at end of the post and this is the source of the whole problem. Of course I realize that the game isn't perfect, but.... it's ok somehow... I accept it.... U should tooo....

Well quite frankly I don't accept it and I do expect a new game I just paid 60 bucks for to work perfectly and if it doesn't, someone owes me an explaination. If it isn't perfect, it should say it right on the front cover of the game next to "The greatest game ever made", ... it should say "But it's not perfect and you may have some technical problems"... Then again.. they wouldn't make money if they did that would they... At the end of the day that's all it's about. The mighty dollar and unfortunatly this community does nothing to raise the standard of the product. Quite the opposite, with posts like Tremo's we are litterly costing down hill.

 

[Yushal]

"Designing a PC game to run perfectly on all of the different hardware/software configurations available today is extremely challenging...particularly for a game as big and complex as Civilization IV. We do a tremendous amount of testing before we release a game, and try to test on every conceivable configuration (including laptops). For the most part, Civ IV is running well for most folks...and any issues that have come up since the release have been addressed and fixed by our team. It's difficult to reach perfection...but we'll never stop trying!"

I dont see anything wrong with this response, and I believe him. I play on a laptop with an ATI chip and have no trouble for the most part. What trouble I do have I am certain will be fixed in an upcoming patch, and I am finding the game quite enjoyable and worth the money. EDIT: Didnt see where he said "have been", tho I'm sure he would rather have said "will be and/or are".

I think people would appriciate a level of support from their fellow gamers, rather then the response most of us have gotten which is for the most part "Shut the F up, no one gives a crap about your problems, oh and by the way ... hahahah ... My game works "perfect".

I'm sorry the game doesnt work for you. You expect me to boycott it? I already paid. Ugly responses aren't directed at you personally or the fact that you are having trouble. It is directed at the style of many of these posts (themselves ugly/nasty) and at the simple fact that you are insulting the game that they are fanatical about (CIVFANATICS!) and, more importantly, doing in in a new thread instead of one of the many other threads already out there. If a bunch of people starting repeating their problems to me over and over again in real life I would tell them to shut up, too.

I think most gamers don't see the clear line that they have created for game developers with their complete absence of loyalty to the gaming community. By excusing developers failures and not sticking with their fellow gamers, we are creating an industry of excuses.

What's worse is that game reviews these days are litterly for sale. After all if you have a website like gamespot.com and you have a HUGE Civilization 4 add on the front banner of your website which you are collecting top marketing dollar for, how could you possibly give the game anything but a steller review.

I'm disgusted with what's going on with this industry, not just because of the complete absence of quality, but because there is absolutly no gamer community anymore, just a bunch of loan wolves that do and say whatever they want with abosulty no thought whatsover. In fact we can expect more of the same in the future.

I agree with the rest of what you say, and hey, I am guilty. I was lied to about the last Civ, Civ3. There was no multiplayer, and it was promised right on the freaking box. Then they wanted me to pay in order to get it! I didnt buy any expansions for that reason, and swore I was through with Civ because of the theft they practiced on me (yes, it is theft), but here I am buying/playing Civ4.

But I certainly dont expect other people to follow my personal boycotts. And if I did, I would do something more constructive than make this post. Like make this post on Firaxis forums, game dev forums, game producers forums, hand out flyers at games stores, make a website/non-profit organization to further my ideals, whathaveyou.

 

[weasel77066]

Wow, people are in a bad mood today. What is the full moon coming up again? Seriously, I think people have the right to be upset if its not working for them. I had to upgrade several times in recent years (so I could run programs I wanted) Just so happens C4 is running fine on my low end machine.
People can be upset about having problems, but it seems they tend to vent their frustration on the fans of the game. Why be upset with people who enjoy it? Almost as if people are resentfull of the fun others are having. Its not my fault the game won't run for you people, so whats with the name-calling and attempted chastisment of the fans who express their support for a game they love? What- you want me to call firaxis and complain FOR you? If you have an issue with them, take it to them.

 

[Stuie]

Well quite frankly I don't expect it and I do expect a new game I just paid 60 bucks for to work perfectly and if it doesn't, someone owes me an explaination.

Time to switch to console games.

There are too many PC configurations possible to expect EVERY game to run on EVERY system out of the box.

 

[Ubiquitous]

Wow, people are in a bad mood today. What is the full moon coming up again? Seriously, I think people have the right to be upset if its not working for them. I had to upgrade several times in recent years (so I could run programs I wanted) Just so happens C4 is running fine on my low end machine.
People can be upset about having problems, but it seems they tend to vent their frustration on the fans of the game. Why be upset with people who enjoy it? Almost as if people are resentfull of the fun others are having. Its not my fault the game won't run for you people, so whats with the name-calling and attempted chastisment of the fans who express their support for a game they love? What- you want me to call firaxis and complain FOR you? If you have an issue with them, take it to them.

Well we are not venting about the fans of the game because we ourselfs are fans! We love civ! What we don't like are the fan boys who basically say 'stop moaning ... the game works on my pc: thus there is no problem!'

Also, if Firaxis actually communicated with their customers then we discuss our problems with them rather than with the 'defenders' of the game. Sadly, Firaxis have been a bit quiet recently...

 

[Frewfrux]

Well quite frankly I don't accept it and I do expect a new game I just paid 60 bucks for to work perfectly and if it doesn't, someone owes me an explaination.

Like I said, unrealistic expectations.

Yes, that is the way it *should* work.

No, it's not the way it *does* work, with the gaming industry or any other industry. Sorry about that.

 

[Ubiquitous]

Time to switch to console games.

There are too many PC configurations possible to expect EVERY game to run on EVERY system out of the box.

But one should expect the game to run if it meets the rec. specs on the box, yes?

 

[MattJek]

Read my post again: I said 'some of us' - not myself. I have no family to speak of and if I did I would not be on here. Some people, however, do have these constraints and are unable to voice their concerns here or even find the time to 'upgrade ram' and 'install new drivers'.

Do you think that it's honest of a company to sell you a product that [I assume] your machine met the minimum specs for, only for you to have to spend hundreds of dollars to get working?

If you think this is acceptable: well done, you are a fan boy.

1)Well... when someone says "some of us" they usually include themselves. Thanks for being so ambiguous
2)I only spent 70 for an extra 512mb of ram ( not hunders of dollars) and I still am going to get a 30 mail in rebate
3) Sometimes in life you get screwed ( ala civ4). But guess what, a real man picks himself up off the ground and makes the best of the bad situation. Not whines about it to no ends.
4) Yes, youre right I am a BIG fanboy. I love civ4 and Im thankfull for the people who put years of hard work into it so that I could enjoy it. In my opinion, it was the best $60 I ever spent

 

[Yushal]

You're absolutely right, his argument isn't 100 percent sound. The point is, as a person who pays for a product, why is it up to you to ensure it works as it was supposed to. Aside from installing the game and ensuring proper updates, why does he need to apply workaround x and fix #2 just to play a game he payed for. Regardless of how much money he makes, mind you we don't even know what his computer specs are, why should he have to upgrade a system he was told would run the game. QUOTE]

Thats a good point. I do think that if you meet the reqs on the box, the product had better work for you.

Maybe a law is necessary. Force game companies (probably the publishers) to list a disclosure online of all the systems (specification-wise) the game has been successfully tested on. I think that is a good idea. Write your congressmen!

 

[MattJek]

Time to switch to console games.

There are too many PC configurations possible to expect EVERY game to run on EVERY system out of the box.

True, civ4 is the only pc game I play.

 

[Ubiquitous]

1)Well... when someone says "some of us" they usually include themselves. Thanks for being so ambiguous

Not so ambiguous. I have a car and I am in full time education: two of the prequisites for my point.

2)I only spent 70 for an extra 512mb of ram ( not hunders of dollars) and I still am going to get a 30 mail in rebate

Sorry - I could have sworn you said $225 for the RAM, not your monthly wage [I was incorrect].

3) Sometimes in life you get screwed ( ala civ4). But guess what, a real man picks himself up off the ground and makes the best of the bad situation. Not whines about it to no ends.

What a shocking attitude to have for life! If something is wrong one should just role over an accept it?! You must come from the French part of Canada because I can't believe the majority of you guys share this surrender trait! If something is not working when it should be and I think I have been short changed, as a true Englishman I am going to fight, and whine, and ***** and basically fight the good fight until my injustice has been put right!

4) Yes, youre right I am a BIG fanboy. I love civ4 and Im thankfull for the people who put years of hard work into it so that I could enjoy it. In my opinion, it was the best $60 I ever spent

I am glad you have enjoyed the game. Seriously: I am a civ fan as well and long may the series continue - but I am not a fan of shoddy public relations and faulty products, which is what I am concerned about here.

 

[Urederra]

Next time, K2/firaxis should release the game on McIntosh first, sure they won't have any problems with people not able to run the game in their computers. There are only a few flavors of Macs and they can check out all of them for problems.


Let's be serious, PCs are a different thing, many of us put together our own systems, (or a friend of us made it, for that matter) So, in many cases our systems are pretty unique, different motherbodards, graphic cards, memory (size and type), OS, etc. and each card with drivers that have to be updated for compability There is only a number of this systems they can check. You save money by buying a PC instead of a Mac, but you have to do your homework and keep your system neat.

It is like having to compile a program in a UNIX based machine, sometimes you make it at once, sometimes you have to figure out which libraries you need to make a succesfull compilation. And I am talking about commercial software that can cost a few grands, not just fifty bucks.

 

[MattJek]

What a shocking attitude to have for life! If something is wrong one should just role over an accept it?! You must come from the French part of Canada because I can't believe the majority of you guys share this surrender trait! If something is not working when it should be and I think I have been short changed, as a true Englishman I am going to fight, and whine, and ***** and basically fight the good fight until my injustice has been put right!QUOTE]


Ummm yeah... I just said you SHOUDNT accept it. I dont know where you got the surrender part from. What I said is that sometimes you get screwed and cant fight back... how the hell do you plan to fight Fixaris?? you gonna lobby and write to your MP or wharever you have over there in england? But dont you think it just makes more sense just to try to fix the problem yourself by getting of your soapbox upgrading your system. No, Im not form Quebec(or French part of Canada as its apparently called in england), so I'll just ignore your rasist comment ( typical uptight brit). PS. Congradulations on owning a car, welcome to the middleclass.

 

[Eyes Of Night]

This isn't a matter of whinning, this is a matter of consumer rights. Imagine if something like this happened in something other than a computer game? Game companies have realized that if something doesn't work then they can just blame it on the system and that it is impossible to create a perfectly working game. This doesn't exist in any other industry and when a product does not live up to its expectations then there is a horde of attorneys just waiting to file class action lawsuits (something I don't particularly agree with btw, attorneys are scum). The point is that there doesn't seem to be any voice or option to punish game companies for putting out a faulty product, and as was said in the OP, game review sites don't have it in their interest to give a proper review. I don't think it is any wonder why more and more people are turning to console gaming. All one has to do is read the poor grammar and horrible arguments made by the other side to see that they don't live in the real world and probably don't even hold a real job. I'm not so sure games are even touchable by the law because I believe there is a clause in the user agreement that you accept the product as is. This means that the only way to punish gaming companies is through your pocket book and as long as the fanboy idiots shell out money and show this undying loyalty no matter what, things will continue as they are.