Civ 4 BTS is unbalanced/illogical, and no fun-for how many?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Tony.Uk, Mar 12, 2010.

  1. Tony.Uk

    Tony.Uk TonyUK

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    I spend a lot of time on this, on Noble, various strategies and nothing works. I can build say 6 cities by IAD and the rest of the game I am hamstrung by high maint. costs. Yet the A1 can build larger number of cities, bigger armies etc, seemingly without regard to maint costs. I also notice how the A1 always avoid unfriendly huts and always know where barbarian cities are as soon as I open borders! As though FOW does not exist. This method I struggle to get to 30% research.

    This game should be about fewer, better cities, so I tried building fewer, and yippee with research at 90-100%. I can only have a moderate army (Hyuama), and pleased with most. I find I am bottom of the league by some margin as a result. then Wilhem of all people who is pleased, suddenly decides to attack me for no reason - end of game. I did not adopt a religion though I had Poly, mono and Confus as careful to choose the right time to do this. Not playing a Mod and builder, not warmonger. I would have built a slighlty larger army had I realised this idiot would suddenly become a crazed maniac and behave like Monty.

    I really do not want to play this game again - it is a waste of time, not enjoyable unless you play at Warlord level which is no challenge, and I hope Civ 5 is free of the AI cheating for want of a better word. I am moving over to EU3 and NTW which do not suffer from these anomolies. For info I attach a save file, but this game I was just experimenting. 2-3 turns later Wilhem declare war - frustrating. Admittedly I played this in 2 hours was a kind of a rushed job.
     
  2. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    If you don't like, why play???
     
  3. oranje willem

    oranje willem Prince

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    Maybe you should read one of the guides posted on these forums. If it would really be so hard, then why are there people winning on diety, which is unbelievably much harder than noble... You obviously have much to learn about this game.
     
  4. CivilizedTiger

    CivilizedTiger Prince

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    Now that's always nice to see: someone blaming the game because they didn't understand it.
    Here's a tip for ya: start playing chess, then curse the inventors of it when your opponent captures a pawn from you!
     
  5. Dr.Null

    Dr.Null forIhavetastedthesushi

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    Many people have won using the One City Challenge strategy. You might enjoy trying that.

    Otherwise -- cheers, hope you find a game you do like!
     
  6. Tony.Uk

    Tony.Uk TonyUK

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    You are absolutlely right! I have made a huge efoort over the years to like it though,
     
  7. Tony.Uk

    Tony.Uk TonyUK

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    Had not thought of that.
     
  8. raxid

    raxid Warlord

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    Noble is actually the difficulty often described as a level playing field, so the AI shouldn't have too many bonuses there allowing them to expand better than you. More likely is that you need to read some strategy articles on how to support a growing economy.

    Also (I may be quite wrong here) but the AI can only see a certain number of squares just like a human, but I think it may be able to see farther, but I'm not sure. Barbarians (specifically Galleys) definitely have a long 'sight' as they can 'see' up to 8 tiles to see if there is something tasty for them to destroy (ship, workboat).
     
  9. naterator

    naterator Bravely running away

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    The difficulty goes lower than noble, by the way. Playing over your skill level is going to be no fun in any game. Also, next time you see the ai cheat, please post a save from a few turns prior; you'll almost certainly get an explaination as to what actually happened.
     
  10. Dr.Null

    Dr.Null forIhavetastedthesushi

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    Also, smaller maps = fewer cities. Try changing map sizes, see if the game is more enjoyable.
     
  11. Magus Zarkara

    Magus Zarkara Chieftain

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    If you really didn't like this game I don't think you should had even bothered to start a topic about it.

    Besides, most games have to make the AI "cheat" so that the game is challenging (I do think they should work better on this game's AI, hope civ5 is better).

    If you can't beat Noble then obviously you are doing something wrong. Getting research at 30% or lower is not a problem, I usually have it like that for most of the game to be honest. You just have to figure out how to handle it. Things like running scientists on the cities and building wealth/research really does help it out.

    Also, try to learn more about diplomacy since you are having trouble with it. There are a lot of tricks that could help you improve with it. There are probably some articles about it and TMIT seems to always talk about it at his videos (I didn't see all of them so I can't tell for sure). There are leaders that declare even on pleased so you have to be careful about it.

    Maybe you could start a topic with the initial save file and tell what you are doing at the game, don't know if you already did that, some people like to do it. It's easier to tell what you are doing wrong like this.

    You could play at the Noble's Club and post there to get help. Since there's a lot of people playing at the same map you could see how they are doing and try to improve your game. There's one game going on right now with Zara Yaqob so you should give it a try!
     
  12. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    I think there is a point where the difficulty level and enjoyment level come to a point. Myself I can play at Immortal and can occassionally win but find the games very tiring and less enjoyable, ALWAYS an uphill battle. Emperor allows a good challenge and careful planning yet I do have the opportunity to occasionally run away with a game, yet lose once in a while to keep myself honest.

    It's all a matter of perspective.

    Regarding One City Challenges, there is a OCC club where I post a game once a week for people to play. Next segment is due out tonight.
     
  13. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

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    I agree with Mad - playing at deity was no fun for me, because everything had to be timed perfectly with no error, and even then, I was struggling to remain competitive.

    Even immortal to some extent is the same way - have to play a tight game to win.

    Since I'm not playing much civ right now, I sort of prefer playing below immortal where I know I can screw around a bit and still win.

    At noble, if you want everyone to have fewer cities, you could try high sea level or add an AI or two, so that most don't get too big. But there are plenty of guides that show how easy it is to expand and have a high slider with only 6 cities.
     
  14. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    There are some good things about your save: 4 pleased AIs and 1 cautious. Not a bad idea to have no state religion when 4 different ones are being run. Your land based resources are developed but it looks like you have not figured out workboats yet, or cottages. But yeh it does feel like the the AI cheats. You can call it a handicap and try to adapt. There are forum games at noble you might look at if you still wish to continue playing. As much as you haven't quit yet there must be something about the game that makes you keep trying.
     
  15. CornPlanter

    CornPlanter Emperor

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    User PreLynMax isn't your relative by any chance?

    P.S. there's also Galactic Civilizations II game which is way easier than Civ, or at least I think so. It took me two games to move up to Challenging level (equivalent of Noble) and I hardly lose that too. Maybe it's for you if you have no time to invest into some reading and thinking.
     
  16. Tony.Uk

    Tony.Uk TonyUK

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    They were just destroyed by a privateer! The strong desire to win keeps me going at this - utter frustration with the A1 behaviour. Diplomacy is not to good in the game generally.
     
  17. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Noble is very easy. With that said, all of us struggled at that level starting out. The AI gets advantages because otherwise the game would be too easy. I'm not sure posting a thread ranting about that game is productive. However, you can learn a lot on this forum and by posting saves for advice.

    6 cities should be very easy to maintain if you do the right things. It sounds like you are not doing some basic things to build up your economy - cottages, running specialists, improving land and resources, trading techs, resources and gold.

    Trying and OCC may be a good way to at least learn how to develop your city but to me it's not indicative of the game as a whole. I recommend trying out a standard normal or epic Fractal game with 6 or 7 opponents and post it up here. You will get some good advice and starting acing noble soon.
     
  18. Tony.Uk

    Tony.Uk TonyUK

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    One of my weaknesses is I rarely attack anyone, except barb cities. It seems to me that even as a builder you can never win unless you take other civs cities to some extent.
     
  19. tempuraki

    tempuraki Warlord

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    How to make ends meet:

    quick ways:
    - pick a FIN or ORG leader (you did that already)
    - cottages
    - research currency and build markets
    - switch to caste system and run merchants
    - take over AI cities
    - build courthouses
    - research currency and trade resource for gpt, trade tech for gold

    more complicated ways:
    - settle great people
    - religion gold
    - GLH, ToA
    - failure gold
    - change civics

    there are other ways, these are from top of my head.
     
  20. klaidonis

    klaidonis Chieftain

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    Wow. I shall advise with you. In my 10 games I have never beaten even "Normal". And "Tough"... forget about it!

    Sorry for the off-topic.
     

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