Civ 5 announced!

[JBConquests]

The 2D vs. 3D discussions and any other civ5 feature ideas belongs in a thread like this. I'm sure there are other threads as well.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=189370

The topic of this thread is about ideas and further speculating/gaining insight into the announcement.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=189370

 

[Mercenary82]

How are they off topic? Discussing the graphics that could be in civ 5 is relevant. I'd like an option to turn 3d off in civ 5 as well, I could care less about how graphics look, its the gameplay and strategy that draws people to civ.

 

[Smidlee]

To all those 2d fans who believes graphics doesn't matter in a strategy game will love Space Empire 5. It's all about the game play with no AI and ugly 2d graphics.

Oh, yeah. Watch out for all those space bugs.

 

[SwordofStriker]

Gamespot just jumped the gun on an article that has already been out for a while now.

If anyone wants to lose some money, I'm betting there will be another expansion before there will ever be a Civ V.

 

[spammikone]

Honestly I feel sorry for those who think getting 2d is step backwards. Like 2d would be inferior or something. You've missed many great games.

 

[El Koeno]

Honestly I feel sorry for those who think getting 2d is step backwards. Like 2d would be inferior or something. You've missed many great games.

So why not go play those games if you want 2d so badly?

Of course gameplay-wise it doesn't matter too much if you have 2d or 3d, and it's gameplay that matters. So in that respect, moving to 2d wouldn't really be a step backwards. However, I for one care about how the game looks as well: if I can get good gameplay AND good graphics, I'm in.

 

[JesusOnEez]

I know a lot of people seem to be saying that 3D adds nothing to the game, but that very much depends on the way you play. Fine, you can see the 3D as a gimmick, but I very much see it as a tool.

Zooming into a city as stated, is pretty useless, but what about zooming out. Globe view can be important to show an overview of naval attack routes for example. Same can be said for identifying units and their whereabouts, especially in the late game when you can have tonnes of units sprawled all over the map. Globe view is the number one feature that 3D has added that has a use other than being a gimmick, and I couldn't see this feature being replicated easily in a 2D environment.

However, I'm for the status quo, so having an option for both would be best.

 

[Flak]

As a game developer I can tell you guys that the engineers involved in developing these games will absolutely refuse to go back to 2D for one very obvious reason: Their livelihood. These people probably don't really think they might ever leave Firaxis, but if they do for whatever reason, they've got to have skills relevant to their industry if they want to continue to have a career that industry. For gaming, that means 3D programming. Those engineers will leave the company themselves before they are forced to work on archaic technology that would pretty much seal their fates career-wise. It's hard for me to imagine any way the current group of Firaxis game developers are ever going to agree to something like that.

 

[Atol]

People I dont think your getting the point. Civ 4 is a Memory Hog Not a grapics Hog. The grapics are like Runescape Low end. There are some clips that are high Grapics But nothing like Fear or battlefeild 1942 or better. See Civ. Is mainly caculations. When you have 18 Civs at once. Thta very Demanding on the File sharing and cpu.

But do this. While playing the game and the game slowing down on you. Click ctrl Alt Delete and look at the Memory. I seen civ 2 and 3 use up to 1.8gb of ram.

I have found restarting windows seem to speed the game up.

Here how I know it not the grapics card overkill.

I run 3 computers

A Pro Star 3.4 ghz Extream Edtion L3 2mb cache HT, 1gb of ram with 2gb of virtual ram. With Ati 256mb of ram grapics card. Slowest

A Acer Core duo 1.66ghz With onboard video 1gb of Shared ram. So 128mb is for the Onboard video card. CPU running at 80% to 100% core 1 and 50% 80% on core 2. Runs Fine.

Alienware Core 2 2.33ghz with 4mb cache. geforece go 256mb of ram. and 2gb of ram. Which should run the best.

The list above are all laptops.

The last desktop that run civ 4 was a Amd 64 3000 with 2gb of ram. Single core.

As you can see the P4 3.4 with ht and AMD where both single core. What help with AMD is onboard memory controler.

Now With all 4 Systems I have Virtral ram set to 2 to 4gb. Another idea is Buy more Ram. I seen this game use up to 1.9gb of ram.

 

[T.A JONES]

As a game developer I can tell you guys that the engineers involved in developing these games will absolutely refuse to go back to 2D for one very obvious reason: Their livelihood. These people probably don't really think they might ever leave Firaxis, but if they do for whatever reason, they've got to have skills relevant to their industry if they want to continue to have a career that industry. For gaming, that means 3D programming. Those engineers will leave the company themselves before they are forced to work on archaic technology that would pretty much seal their fates career-wise. It's hard for me to imagine any way the current group of Firaxis game developers are ever going to agree to something like that.

Of everyhting said so far, this makes the most sense to me. Better buisness practice will always prevail. We'lll take whatsin front of us. Who are we to get in the way of profits or advancing careers. We were fooled before.

It true and its the best assurance I can imagine were getting 3d. Yay!! , Sorry forgive me, I don't really care at the moment with Civ3 still evolving 2d is improving and still alive. I wanted AI upgrades but Civ4 never got there.

Its also why CIv3 won't leak its source code till the cauffers are filled up. Why improve a old format? so people can see that a formula for the most addicting and wildly successful franchise is better implimented on old unprofitable 2d software? Then fancy engines that can spark devepment, create jobs and enchance careers, not to mention produce fancy photo splashes for editers who have only a few days, so not tiring of its arcadness til next day post with lavish praises. all lose the abilty to function or takehold. Thats taking out the whole system! un speakable!

If Civ5 ups the AI then I can get used to the veiw. Chalk Civ4 up to an example of 'what not to do' with a 3d in the Civ series. 2d people remember It can't get any worse, these where severe growing pains hopefully neccassary to move forward.

Ok Im guessing if the release mentioned is the other expansion, its being held over so consumers can catch up in the machinery dept, hence less complaints or better, havin no right to complain this time, when they add more to the requirments.

 

[I_batman]

Well... I guess I'll go ahead and be the party-pooper.

You will never see a 2D Civ game come out in the future.

Look, everyone knows that graphics don't necessarily make a good game. But graphics *do* help to sell games (especially as impulse, or non-researched buys).

If you walk into a store, and pick up a computer game box and the graphics look mid-90's, are you likely to say, "oh, even though these graphics suck; I bet the gameplay is incredibly in-depth to make up for it!" No, you'll likely throw the game back on the shelf and move on, assuming that if the graphics are that bad, the game must be cheap.

This is the way it is. Games cost millions of dollars to develop, market, and produce. Companies cannot stay in business if their products don't sell exceptionally well. Games sell because of hype. Graphics really, really help generate hype.

If anything, everyone should be hoping that Civ V has stellar 3D graphics, and that it sells well. Otherwise, Civ V might be the last Civ game ever made.

Sadly, you may be correct.
One comment about impulse buying: Though no poster here can give a true answer, I would be curious to know how many Civ buyers bought on the impulse of a pretty box, or the various pretty pictures that came out as teasers before the sale date.
All I know is I bought a powerful computer to play Civ IV, and have never finished a Civ IV game since I find the graphics crap, and the size of the maps too small.
And BTW, I NEVER experience slowdowns, so that is not why I hate the 3D graphics. The simple reason is they detract from the game.

But you are likely right about 3D graphics.
The sheep want pretty pictures. The more discerning, hardcore strategy player wants a good game engine. But there are more sheep in the world, hence we have 3D graphics.

 

[OscarWildebeest]

I hated the 3D at first, because it wasn't what I was used to. Now I love it. Sure, there's an 'eye candy' element to it, but there's also a strategic element as JesusOnEez has implied.

Probably we are stuck with it, either way.

 

[stratego]

Maybe so development team would put more emphasis on content and smoothness rather than in graphics?

With the graphics programs we have now, it'll take about the same amount of time and effort to create it in 2D as it would in 3D.

 

[El Koeno]

With the graphics programs we have now, it'll take about the same amount of time and effort to create it in 2D as it would in 3D.

I agree, And even if 3d takes more time: as said, more people buy a game that's 3d, so 3d pays for itself. Firaxis doesn't need to fire a "gameplay designer" (don't know what to call him) to hire a 3d artist; the guy pay his own salary! If anything, the 3d artist brings in enough money to hire an extra guy to work on better and deeper gameplay.

There's no trade-off at all between graphics and gameplay at work here. IMHO Civ IV proves this by being the cool game it is.

 

[Tristan daCunha]

I'm betting there will be another expansion before there will ever be a Civ V.

Yes, what I got from the article is that we have to wait until 2008 for the next expansion.

 

[gamedude107]

dont go 2d thats stupid, 2d sucks!

 

[Bruno Pecci]

CIV5 it would have to come with 24 Civs and not only 18 Civs....

 

[T.A JONES]

dont go 2d thats stupid, 2d sucks!

I agree. Lets keep the kids happy! ......

 

[potto]

to all the 2d snobs out there, dont you get it, this is a game based on human survival and growth on a planet which is by its very nature a 3d experience, I look forward to CIV improvements in tying up the gameplay and strategies ever more with the virtual landscape created.

 

[stratego]

Yep, 2D sucks. I demand that Sid remake civ3 in 3D. Civ2 can be in 2D since it's 2. But 3 needs to be in 3D. +1 D for every expansion.