Civ Dip X

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
From what I can tell from other posts at civfanatics Sheep2 has connection problems at the moment...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1526014#post1526014

Would have been best to draft in a replacement instead of allowing an NMR so early.


Plus WhyTF is the e-mail for Spring 1901 over 800 kb after I told you to save the picture file as gif format.

It is a waste of bandwidth and of limited inbox space :mad:
Click to expand...

If you can reccomend a decent Mac .pict to .gif converter, please do :p, but at the moment I am unable to find one.
 
Please don't send us pictures at all! ;)

I always use realpolitik and it's easily downloadable free off of this site: http://sourceforge.net/projects/realpolitik/ as I suppose all of you already know. I almost never use a real board or pictures, since RP is so useful.

Anyway, slightly more on topic, this sucks! An NMR in S01, come on guys! :mad: Things are pretty screwed up now.... everyone's going to gang onto poor old me since the combined moves and nonmoves of Germany and England have left Scandinavia wide open. I REALLY doubt you could get a player interested in the English position as it stands now, with both France and Germany on their doorstep and 0 builds for the next geological eon or so, guaranteed. What can they do really? Bounce in the North Sea until Russian help arrives and sinks Albion for good? :satan:

Just a quick question, did anyone get a letter from England and if so what was the latest date? I got zip from him.

What say we get a REALLY committed player :rolleyes: and start over? With a shorter diplomacy period, too. A week is a little too much methinks ;)

I suggest Ambuel if we can get in touch.
 
I have PMd Ambuel already, Pontiuth :).

I used Realpolitik, but unfortunately they do not have a version written for OS X, and it will only export in .pict files. Converting them to .jpg is the lowest-memory and PC-compatible option.

I'll wait for further input from the players until I consider restarting the game.
 
I say we toss a coin for the English moves...there are only two choices TBH.

1. A Liv - Yor, F Edi - Norw Sea, F Lon - N.Sea

or

2. A Liv - Yor, F Edi - N.Sea, F Lon - Eng.Channel

Have the GM toss a coin and if heads we go with option 1, tails option 2. Then we have a new player take that position. Restarting the game when so many of us have shown our hand isn't on, this option I've presented could save the game IMHO.
 
Well that's why I asked about the letters, because it looks like the reason Germany and France turned north is because the King was AWOL from the getgo. I do know that the very first letter one of them sent me showed that he was planning turning west and/or north.

If we do restart we won't use the same countries of course ;) Heck, I'm even willing to take Italy if you all want. And I certainly have the least to benefit - I'm in the best position so far.
 
I am against a restart - I have become rather attached to my little boot.

I say have the GM readjudicate with a nice inoffensive F NTH, F NWG, A YOR, get Ambuel on board, and get this baby back on track.
 
A) I'm against a restart
B) I'm against 'flipping' to determine English moves. It's not my fault that he NMRed.
C) I received nothing from Sheep. That's because, as usual, Sheep is the most unreliable player I've ever come across. He plays on this site, Redscape, Apolyton, and I've YET to see him finish a game either as a player or a GM. I realize that he's had problems with his health, and while I feel sorry for this, I still think the fact that he joins games just to drop out is HIGHLY annoying. I still wrote him, as with any other player, but he did not write back. That is one of many reasons why I opened the way I did.
 
Whatever happens now - the game is highly corrupted. Any player NMRing gives an immediate advantage to the players next to them. To do so on the opening move spoils the game.

To make Englands moves for him, negates the idea of diplomacy. Russia and france based their campaign on Englands silence.

Best move would be to start over.
 
Any NMR is terrible but a first year NMR is devestating, so I am fine however Toasty wants to handle it save a retstart. - If this one does get restarted then you can count me out.
 
I'll be wiling to take the Throne of Englang for the remaining of the game. You should only know that:
1- I'll be on vacation from feb. 7 to 14.
2- This will be my first Game on the net (played a few time at home)

I would also request if you could put my Fleet in Edinbourg in the Norvegian Sea. This could give me at least one center (norway)on the next move and not put me completly out of the game. What does russia think?

Waiting for your reply.
 
I think this game may just set a new record for being abandoned.
 
:mad: I am starting to get angry and I will get revenge for this outrage :mad:


In terms of a solution at the very least the British should get a fleet into the North Sea (Edinburgh fleet) and their army into Yorkshire. THAT is neither pro-France or pro-Russia, but allows Britain to get a supply centre in Autumn 1901 and so not be knocked effectively from the game.
 
Absolutely not! Why is North Sea any better of an opening than Eng? Why Yor and not Wales? Why not Clyde or Edinburgh? You cannot arbitrarily make up moves for a nation that NMRs regardless of the circumstances.

If barbu is willing to take the nation - great! Kudos for that. But he should take it as it is now, not with any updated orders. Anything of the sort would be arbitrary and unfair to everyone.

If you think France and Germany have an unfair advantage (even though I really don't think that we do) than take that into account in your play and your diplomacy.
 
You are a muppet if you think that the British won't move in EVERY opening at the very least and the least is what we should give the incoming player.


...and I hope Sheep2 dies in a car crash :yeah:
 
but WHERE is the question? I've seen British openings that don't involve the north sea. I've seen British openings that don't involve Yorkshire OR Wales. So you making a decision on where they should move is arbitrary and I did not sign up to play by such rules :)
 
Guys, you have to look at it from all sides.

It's quite obvious now that Germany and France planned their campaign on the knowledge that England was out of the game from day one. It appears he never returned any letters or wrote any to begin with. Thus, it's unfair to Germany and France to let England move, since they sneakily took advantage of his NMR, and it's totally unfair to the replacement England to give him a turn-one NMR'd state, because it sure isn't his fault that Sheep is a slacker. It would have been far more sportsmanlike to inform the GM that England was a no-show, but hey, this is Diplomacy.

Sorry to all hands, but it's plainly obvious that this England is dead, kaput, a corpse. Against a determined FrancoGerman campaign, he can't even get a fleet off his own flipping island! Much less make it to Norway, that's totally out of the picture. Hey, I'm not saying that the French and the Germans actually have to or want to actually INVADE England. TWO meager units are all they need to tie up England for good in his starting position, and if England tries any funny stuff they get London [F Eng-Lon, F Hol-Nth]. Throw in a Russian fleet which I will be more than happy to provide in good time, and England is sunk for good. Diplomacy? Are you kidding? What can I, if I were England, promise to Germany or France against each other when they have a guaranteed three builds if they just wait? and even so, I'm so far behind that there's no build my so-called ally can't get to first. I wouldn't take the Throne if you paid me, and anyone who volunteers imho is doing it quite out of pity. ;)

It's terribly unfair to Germany, France, and Russia [me especially, since I have Scandinavia at my feet] but I don't want to abandon this game, and I know it certainly CANNOT be played through with a first-turn NMR. Come on! I know it sucks, but a restart is the only option.

I am completely aware that some players have given away a new and cool opening [like Italy and France]. Same with me, you just haven't seen my Spring 02 moves yet, that's where the kicker lies :p So I sympathize. If you want to keep your country and try again, whatever. Me I'm impartial and I am fully prepared to take what's left, even Turkey or Austria if I have to. I just want to get this game back on track.

I definitely think we should have a 5 day dip period, not the full week, the game is stalling and if we have to wait people will lose interest ;)

Well we have 8 players including barbu and Ambuel so if someone wants to drop, that's your business ;) Can't say I won't miss you, but if we go through with this game you can count me out. It may be a great position for Russia but it certainly isn't fair to the other players. IMHO the real solution was to do like Redscape does: no Spring 1901 NMRs, no exceptions. If there's an NMR turn one the game stops and we replace the player.

If we can't get enough players I suggest asking the mods to open an advertisement thread in Off Topic. There are plenty of Diplomacy fans to be found, they just haven't found this forum yet.
 
but WHERE is the question? I've seen British openings that don't involve the north sea. I've seen British openings that don't involve Yorkshire OR Wales. So you making a decision on where they should move is arbitrary and I did not sign up to play by such rules

The most common opening is the Churchill [Norwegian, North, and Yorkshire] followed by the variant that moves the army to Edinburgh. A close third is the Channel opening [North, Channel, Yorkshire] followed by the variant that moves the army to Wales.

Those are really the only valid openings. If we were talking about Turkey you could say he might move:

F Ankara - Armenia
A Constantinople - Ankara
A Smyrna - Syria

But have you ever seen it done? Would a sane Turkish player ever do that?

Anyway it's a moot point.
 
Originally posted by orange
but WHERE is the question? I've seen British openings that don't involve the north sea. I've seen British openings that don't involve Yorkshire OR Wales. So you making a decision on where they should move is arbitrary and I did not sign up to play by such rules :)
Click to expand...

Only people as **** as Sheep2 would fail to put a fleet in the N.Sea in Spring 1901.
 
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