Civ II - Test of Time

[Caleb]

I have a question for those of you experienced at modding Civ IV. I have not yet tried my hand at it, knowing it will take a lot more dedication than it did for Civ III. However, I just had an idea that would motivate me to go through the learning curve, and wanted to know if anyone else had considered or tried this.

There seems to wide agreement that the best version of Civ ever, was Civ II - Test of Time. I have to admit that it had a stronger hold over me than the more recent versions. A common theme in any wish list for the next version of Civ is to make it more like Test of Time. So here is my question:

As Civ IV is supposedly completely moddable, can it not be used as the engine to create a mod pack that basically emulates Test of Time? Could not the rules, techs, terrain, units, etc. be all the same, with maybe just a few differences such as an improved AI?

Once such a mod pack was completed, it could then be used as a base for any modder to create his "better" Civ by adding his favorite ideas from Civ III, Civ IV and other mods. For example, ever since Civ I I have wanted to be able to build canals, and now I find that this feature has just been added to the latest official patch for Civ IV. What fun to play Test of Time with better graphics and AI, and canals to boot!

Or am I just dreaming?

 

[phungus420]

You could do this pretty easily if you are at least sort of comfortable with the SDK. You will need C++ modding to get this done, make no mistake, this would be beyond a simple XML mod to achieve, but it would be relativively simple given some of the SDK modding already done. There will be some issues with the AI, but it'll still perform better then stander Civ2 AI would. The issue is, no one who wants to try this, has been willing to put in the hours it would take to program it. Maybe you will, but I doubt it, because so many have come before you who were interested in achieving this goal weren't willing to put in the work.

 

[CyberChrist]

@phungus420:
Heh, somehow I get the feeling that you are not entirely familiar with CivII: Test of Time and it's features. I doubt introducing multi-layered maps to cIV could be done "pretty easily".


To be honest then I am not even sure it would be possibly at all - cIV is only almost but not quite 100% moddable. There are certain interface functions (like Main Menu, ESC menu etc.) that are still hardcoded and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the crucial parts that would be required for introducing multiple maps would also prove to be hardcoded in the EXE.

But I'd be happy to swallow my words if someone could present an easy way to achieve this ... heck I'd even do it if someone could just come up with a HARD way to achieve this.

 

[The_J]

Multiple maps can be done.
LutesfikMafia has done it for a FfH2 modmod.

The problem here: The second map has to be very small, if you don't want to decrease the performance.

And i really have no idea, how complex it is.

 

[CyberChrist]

Hmm, afaik then the Dungeon Adventure mod Lutefisk made FFH2 is not actual multiple maps, but is rather making excellent use of smaller sections of the same map with widely different terrain, constant Unexplored Fog of War updating (out of sight, out of mind) and clever switching of unit scaling - giving the illusion that you are moving between seperate maps.

A very good work around for an adventure style map, but hard to use for a civ builder set up - where you would want to go exploring and build a world map that was not instantly swallowed by the blackness of Unexplored Fog of War.

On the other hand, if the world map display can somehow be controlled to show only limited parts of the world (with full world view turned on) then this approach might be a good place to start.

 

[deanej]

I think it can - Afterworld does it, but I don't know how.

 

[CyberChrist]

Although I never played the Afterworld mod (that came with BTS) then I am 100% certain that it does NOT have multiple maps - as it doesn't even make use of a custom DLL.

It is probably making use of an approach similar to the one used for the Dungeon Adventure mod.

 

[deanej]

It doesn't have multiple maps, but it does limit the amount of map on the minimap display. This would be done somewhere in python, most likely.