Civ IIII ideas

ShadowWarrior

Prince
Joined
Jun 7, 2001
Messages
411
1. Cities should be able to share food and shields as long as they are connected by some kind of transportation network such as roads or airports. This gives more flexibility for players to choose where to build cities. It also make more sense. Cities in a country often rely on each other. No one city is completely self sufficient.

2. Airports should provide some commercial benefit rather than simply producing veteran units.

3. Harbor should increase the number of units of food produced on ocean sqaure by two, not one. Harbor should also be able to provide some commercial benefits.

4. When a city rebels, it is reasonable to expect some military units stationed in that city to be lost forever or get damaged, but not to the extend that all of the units are lost, especially if that city has ten or twenty military units to begin with. It is hard to see how rebellion got started in the first place if there are ten or twenty military units.

5. Future technology should provide some benefits. For example, once players get five future technologies, all of the military units get a bonus in offense. Once players get ten future technologies, shields productions are increased by fifteen percent. Once players get fifteen future technologies, food productions are increased by fifteen percent.

Another way to do this is to divide future technology into four categories of economic, military, and research. When players finishes researching every single future technology and begins to research future technology, players are given the option to direct the research of future technology to either economic or military application. Directing research of future ontechnology to economic application will give economic bonuses. For example, for each future technologies discovered, there will be five percent increase in shield production, or food production or tax revenues. Players can't determine which kind of economic bonus will they recieve. It will be random.

6. Corruption should be determined by political system, implementation of improvements, such as courthouses, that fight corruption, as well as relative distance.

In all of the civ games, corruptions is determined by distance. The assumption is that the further away a city is from the capital, the less easier it is for the central government to control and administer that city efficiently, therefore the more likely that the governor of that city will cheat and become corrupted.

This assumption is only partially right in that it neglects the effect of technology. As communication and transportation technology advances, it becomes easier to go to places that once took years of travel on foot. This advance in technology in communication and transportation means that the central government will be able to rule and administer a city that was once too far away more efficiently.

In short, corruption should be determined by the relative distance. Relative distance is itself determined by technology or the era in which the civilization is in.

7. An additional era, the future era, should be added to the game, and the time should end at 2500 AD. Adding the future era will enable us players to play the game using the benefits of future technologies that I suggested above, as well as modern military units that often come too late to make an impact.

8. The graphics of the city view is impressive, but it looks kind of empty. The city view consists nothing other than all the improvements that we have build as well as some random small houses. Designers should either get rid of the city view feature, or improve on it. The one thing about city view that I have a big problem with is that I am in the modern era, and the raods in my city view are dirt road, not concrete roads. And there are no cars. I think city view in Civ I is much better, even though its graphics isn't as impressive.

9. The movement rate should be poportional to the map size. For example, on a small map, a warrior unit can move one square per turn. On a giant map however, the same warrior should be able to move three squares per turn. Corruptions rate should also be poportional to the map size.

10. The palace feature is kind of weird, too. In a game I am playing now, I am in the modern era, and yet my palace is so crappy looking. It doesn't have a paved road leading to the center of the palace, yet. I rather not have the palace feature at all, but that's just a minor thing.

11. Since it is hard to play multiplayer game on Civ III, the fun and challenges of this game can only come from the intelligence of the AI. Civ III's AI, having been drammatically improved, still do things that just don't make sense. AI must be improved more. I don't know anything about computers, so what I am going to say may sound stupid. But they now have computer AI that can defeat the greatest human chess player on earth, so why can't Civ III designers create an AI that can actually be a challenge to us human players without having to resort to cheating?

12. The trading system in Civ III is excellent. It definetly get rid of the fatigue and annoyance of having to drag every caravel/fright unit across the globe to the other side just to make a trade route.

But In Civ III, the only trade that takes place between civilizations seem to be trading of strategic/luxurious resources.

I think more than the trading of strategic/luxury resources, international trade should also generate some revenues, like it did in Alpha Centauri. International trade should work like it did in Alpha Cenaturi.

Trade between two civilizations should provide scientific bonus like it did in Civ II. The civilization that is relatively less advanced, in particular, will recieve more scientific bonus than the civilization that is more advanced if the two civ trade. The assumption is that the less advanced civ has much to learn from the more advanced civ. But since the less advanced civ has little to offer to the more advanced civ, the more advanced civ will recieve less science bonus.

However, the more advanced Civ will have an upper edge in cultural influence if trade occurs between the more advance civ and the less advanced civ. This assumption is based on observation of our modern world. Western cultural influence permeate the world because of its global coporations and the global commercial enterprises.

13. A minor thing. We should be able to forcefully, using our military units, deport enemy civ's units inside our national boarder without causing war. I am tired of telling the AI to move their units out of my country, and they, having agreed, keep on going deeper inside into my teritory.

14. In the area of management, I think Civ III has been a drammatic improvement. Yet, there is always room for even more improvement. I often find myself in situation where I need to drag twenty military units to the same location. If possible, let there be a feature where I can select the twenty military units and give them destination order at the same time so that I don't have to drag all twenty of them twenty times. It is very annoying.

I also find myself in situation, especially toward the modern era, when I have buid all that there is to build and set the city on wealth mode. And then a discovery of a new technology gives me the chance to build a new improvement. This means that I have to go into every single city, and change the production from wealth to building that new improvement. For those of us that have a huge empire of thirty cities, this becomes incredibly tedious.

If you can think of any other management shortcut that should be added to the game, please suggest them. I think one thing that makes Civ III a very long game is all the moving and micromanagement that we have to do. Shortcuts would make this game so much better.

15. Lastly, please make the combat result more realistic. To have my 20th century tank be destroyed by stone age clubmen is just ridiculously frustrating.

These are the ideas that I have for now. If I think of more, I will post them. I hope the designers will serously consider my suggestion. I think these suggestions will make the game much better. If any of you do not like one or more of my ideas, please let me know. I like to hear your comments.
 
To topic 14, especially city management:

It is easier than that. The city advisor is the best way to do that, as you can see exactly what every single city is building, and click on it to bring a scrolldown change menu. Or you can use the arrows near the top of the screen to move to the next city.
 
I was about to say "In Roman numerals it isn't CivIIII, it's CivIV".... Oh... nevermind

(Maybe abbreviate it C.IV? :p )

P.S. All good ideas, by the way.
 
I would suggest Civ 4 u would be ABLE TO KILL RESISTER like in a country in amartial law .In real life u could always kills resister.
2.Nuclear Weapons are not powerful enough
3.Cruise missiles are too short ranged ,Firaxis......Cruise Missile and Anti-Air missile(short range) is different just wanna remind u
4.No zooming?So that u could see the tanks bombarding the enemy


I have to disagree about future era.....It makes the game unrealistic ....Thats why I dont like Empire Earth.Too massive destruction.I love down-to-earth games There should more technology within ancient age and modern age such as sound theory?How sound was diffentiate.Biology?There are 1 or 2 bio tech in Civ III only(genetic),mostly are physics!Graphic Designing should be a tech too......First computer made was in black and white only
I would see a biology tech to creat a unit called medic which could heal non-armored units like marine.Medicine tech isnt enough to create meduc!Pharmacist (do medicine as occupation) and Doctors take different majors at university.A medic should be able to perform both .Medic is realistic ,like one time heal upped one health?
 
What if the "resister" is like the French Resistance -- anonymous. You come to work one day to find the factory equipment sabotaged. You *could* kill 1/10th the city population in retaliation, but what are the chances you got the guilty 1/10th? (One in ... ten? :) )

It's more realistic and fun to have to station more troops in the city ... to keep an eye on things, like the streets and the factories, to make sure things don't go "blow up" in the night.




Originally posted by Fayadi
I would suggest Civ 4 u would be ABLE TO KILL RESISTER like in a country in amartial law .In real life u could always kills resister.
2.Nuclear Weapons are not powerful enough
3.Cruise missiles are too short ranged ,Firaxis......Cruise Missile and Anti-Air missile(short range) is different just wanna remind u
4.No zooming?So that u could see the tanks bombarding the enemy


I have to disagree about future era.....It makes the game unrealistic ....Thats why I dont like Empire Earth.Too massive destruction.I love down-to-earth games There should more technology within ancient age and modern age such as sound theory?How sound was diffentiate.Biology?There are 1 or 2 bio tech in Civ III only(genetic),mostly are physics!Graphic Designing should be a tech too......First computer made was in black and white only
I would see a biology tech to creat a unit called medic which could heal non-armored units like marine.Medicine tech isnt enough to create meduc!Pharmacist (do medicine as occupation) and Doctors take different majors at university.A medic should be able to perform both .Medic is realistic ,like one time heal upped one health?
;) ;)
 
Actually, in original Roman Numbers it is Civ IIII. The Romans did use numbers like IC for 99, but 4 was a special case, and it was originally represented by IIII. IV was a corruption introduced much later on, to generalise the system.

With regards to point 11, tt is very difficult to make the AI better. Chess is a far simpler game than Civ3. The state-space of chess is noticably finite. The state-space of Civ3 is unimaginable. (The term "state-space" refers to the number of possible situations the game can be in. In chess, the number isn't *that* big). An entire game of chess can be represented in a few bytes, a game of Civ3 takes megabytes (you might be able to get it down a little below a megabyte if you tried *really* hard).

Also, in chess there is certainty - there is no randomness at all, and thus algorithms such as minimax (with the appropriate string of optimisation techniques attached) can be used very effectively, in Civ3, the uncertainty of combat results makes it much harder for the computer. Computers tend to do much more poorly at games involving chance. A very good backgammon playing program was made, I believe by using a neural network and getting the network to play against itself, and train it that way, but I think that the state-space of Civ3 would make such a technique unquestionably impossible.

I think the Civ3 AI is excellent, and of course it does have problems, and it will be improved. However, essentially, Civ3 is more complex than chess - and more complex by orders of magnitude - so it is unreasonable to compare the two.
 
About #2, Airports allow you to airlift units, which I consider a benefit.

I think Civ III should have had a ballerina in a pink skirt who could both move on land, and swim in the water. Her ratings should be 8/4/4 :cool:
 
Sirp i am glad you posted that about Chess vs CIV III in an AI sense. I really couldn't be bothered typing a long explanation, but you are completely right, i think most of the people on these boards that complain about the AI realy have no idea how hugely complex in a game like CIV III it would be, and infinitely harder than a Chess game.
 
One thing I would change is the units that are available. Different countries do not always have the same type of units. True, Civ3 has the unique units available to each country. To really make the system reflect the players interest I have seen a system that would satisfy everyones needs I think.

As the system stands now, units have a movement,attack,defensive and transprt rating. Let the player determine how many points to assign to each of these catagories. A civ that does not have horses avasilable would be limited to movement of one. Iron would allow def of two. Discovery of map making would allow creation of naval units....

Of course, the higher the rating number you use for a unit, the more the units cost would increase. To make the unit a naval of air unit, you would have to add a percentage off the cost to the over all cost of the unit. Bigger units with more abilities would naturaly cost more.

One of the other things I would like to see is the ability to colonize not just Alpha Centauri, but the solar system of even the galaxy. Make it the ultimate exploration, expansion game.
 
-In Civ 4 I would like "Terrorism" in the game. When you enter the Modern Era or even the industrial one, and based on how powerful your civ is overall, there should be chances of terrorism.

Two types of Terrorism:

Terrorist units who are like barbarian military units which are modern. They attack your units, attack and bombard cities and depending on how powerful you are, your barbarian activity level, and difficulty level, the more powerful they are.

And the 'spy' terrorism in which a certain but very small chance that terrorists could poison your city, nuke your city, or destroy a building. Improvements, wonders, social engineering decrease the chances of thappen happening.

-Social Engineering similar to SMAC would be nice. You can engage numerious social projects that cost money and/or time in turns to do. They represent social movements, and Woman's Suffrage would be a Social Engineering instead of Wonder. When you 'complete' a social engineering product, it gives you benefits that last thoughout the game. I.E. a social engineering project called 'Gurilla Warfare' is completed, you see a movie seeing various times in history gurilla warfare was implanted ie American Revolution, Vietnam, Palestinians, Jews in WWII then if your city gets captured, Partisan units will come about. Social Engineering takes no shields, but it takes money and time, and is faster/cheaper based on how much culture your producing. Your type of government also determins how fast/cheap social engineering projects are gonna be. If your Capitalistic Democracy, it should take you like x4 more time/cost to complete an enviornmentalist social engineering project to represent America's capitalist system. Note: This is different than the type of government or wonders, just think of these as add-ons for your benefit.

-More types of Great and Small Wonders. I would like to see a Hollywood, World Trade Center, Sears Tower, Arlington Cemetary, NATO, and many others WITH wonder movies!

-A few more types of governments. There should be a separation between Capitalistic Democracy (Americans), and Socialistic Democracy (Europeans), and maybe the return of Fundamentalism. And a near futuristic one based on the government this guy here is talking about www.shareintl.org which should be discovered towards the end of the modern era tech tree and be the best government in the game.

-Trade. I like the idea that of Strategic Resources, but it should be that civs SHOULD still be able to build a unit that requires it but at an INCREASED cost. It is unfair now (I don't understand why people like it the way it is) that the computer cant offer you a challenge in the modern era because he can't even build any tank if he doesn't have the resources. It will make it fair by giving those who get resources the advantage of faster production, while allowing those who don't have any to put up at least some type of defense.

I agree with that there should be a SMAC type of system of trade too besides this.

-City view... leave it out like SMAC because a Civ game it seems can't do it realistically and it doesn't look right at all. It wastes the developers time alot and does nothing.

-I agree with him that the movement should be representitive of the map size. You also need an option so you can have a 'movement multiplier slider' so if you set it at 10x your movements will be 10x more as well as bombardment range too. It will be possible to move a warrior across a tiny map perhaps in like 3 turns.

-More technologies especially into the Modern Ages. I like lots of technologies that do nothing that act as buffer zones so civs dont get new units too fast. Some techs in the modern ages should represent near future things like Mag Lev/Light Rail Trains, Fusion Power Plants, F22's, Non-Gas powered cars, Light Technology/Medical Light Technology etc but not things like Super Uber Spaceships or force fields.

-Air Units should act like they do in Civ 2. So helicopters can fly farther from their operational range but if they do too far they lose hitpoints, and airplanes will crash since they run out of fuel.
Airplanes, missles, etc generally need to go farther too.

-Espionage... it needs alot of work. Needs new options like stealing a Civ's Strategic Resources for x amount of turns, illegal trading ie you get trade from another civ, they dont get any, can be done with an embargo emplaced on you. Also things like Nuclear Bombing a city with a spy, and poisoning a city need to come back. 9/11 has passed but this is a game, it supposed to represent real life some what.

-More units in general

-A UN Council system similar to SMAC. It is cool. You can do things like Anti-Nuclear Missle Treaty/Biological-Chemical Missle Treaty, Enviornmental Treaty, Global Trade Pact, Ban the action of Razing Cities, Repeal the Atrocity Charter, and other things.
 
You should be able to attack a city with all of your units at once, while the defenders defend all at once. It's rather unrealistic; I mean, in D-Day, the Americans didn't land one boat to attack a single pillbox. Instead, everyone that could landed, and all of the pillboxes shot them. It would have been near impossible if the Americans and Germans squared off one to one.
 
Cutiestar: yes, lots of people do seem to make criticisms of the AI without really understanding the complexity of the problem it is trying to solve. Of course, I only gave a few reasons why writing a decent AI for civ 3 is *hard*; there are many, many others.

57%: No, in true Roman numerals, as in what the Romans actually used, it's Civ IIII. According to modern convention, it's Civ IV.

With respect to making a future era, I would suggest it is difficult to make a game in which a future era is actually possible to reach. In Civ CTP, I never once played a game that reached any future technologies, a Civilization had already dominated the world long before future technologies became available.

I also don't think stack vs stack fighting is necessary. It's not like single soldiers square off against one another, entire battalions do; I don't really see this as unrealistic at all. Also, units are meant to be moving simultaneously, even though you move them sequentially, so the units do essentially fight "all at once". If you have a whole load of units, and there is an adjacent load of units, and you order all your units to sequentially attack the enemy stack, what is happening in essence is your entire stack taking on their entire stack.
 
ShadowWarrior: second your point 4. But I think that`s what Firaxis wanted: give an advantage to the AI. i ALWAYS loose the towns with the most/strongest military in them. E.g. could decide which of three cities I lost by upgading to infantry in one - that one`s the goner...........
 
A. Fix the combat system, so people will stop complaining. I like the combat system, and have had some great battles, but it is irksome to some people.

B. Food should be shared once railroads connect cities.

C. Railroads, Highways and MegLev should only be for connecting cities. This will make the map look a lot nicer. If you want the bonuses, then make them buildings, like railstation.

D. Stack movement, including fighter escort and naval power.

E. Special Super-Heavy Infantry that can't be stacked, to encourage battle line warfare like ww1.

F. You should not be able to build cities just anywhere. Most of the history of Eurasia is a history of civilized peoples in arable lands fending off "barbarian" attacks coming from non-arable lands. A 500-mile swath of steppes has fed invaders since the advent of mounted horsemen. This would allow barbarians to still rise up throughout the game.
 
Originally posted by Cyrai
You should be able to attack a city with all of your units at once, while the defenders defend all at once. It's rather unrealistic; I mean, in D-Day, the Americans didn't land one boat to attack a single pillbox. Instead, everyone that could landed, and all of the pillboxes shot them. It would have been near impossible if the Americans and Germans squared off one to one.
anyone play master of magic about 7 years ago or something, you could stack 8 units together and move at the lowest movement speed, and when you attack you get a new screen which changes for each terrian and town, etc, and you bash it out, turn based with the enemy, who could defend with 8 units. Will slow things down, but it was great fun it master of magic!
 
1. Sharing food is communism. And, it slows the growth of the producing cities down.
2. How about instead of general Universities, we get to build colleges. Every city may build three colleges. They can be broken down into Engineering, Arts, Religion, Agrigulture, Medicine, and Economic. Each college is dedicated to researching one tech type. A small wonder could be a University. This is a school where all of the tech types are researched in the same city. Couple that with a great wonder like Newton's College and its a heck of an educational city.
3. One thing that I don't like about Civ3 is that a city of size six may build every improvement available. I don't think that this is realistic. That's like saying we're taking NYC and moving it to Fargo. Well, there aren't enough people in Fargo to work in NYC. I think that each person within the city should be assigned a place to work such as one person for the Temple, one for the Barracks, two for the marketplace and library, three for the Cathedral, etc... This will be more representive of the city's location. Look at Las Vegas. There's really nothing there. If not for entertainment there would be no modern reason to keep it. But in Civ3, the city would be able to build a Factory, Cathedral, University, and so on. I think that this will make the game far more interesting, and city location far more important. I've seen the AI's preference for city locations. There is none. They'll plop a city anywhere. This will give the city's more personality. You'll have blue collar cities (in the hills and mountains), trade cities, growth cities, entertainment cities, etc.. It will also be far more realistic. A city like Fargo, for instance, probably doens't have enough people that a Cathedral would be of any benefit, so why build one? In Civ3, you need it for Culture. This should change. Culture should be based on how old the city is, and how much influence it has throughout the world.
Anyway, that's my two sense.
Oh, and another thing. How about instead of arguing over whether it is CivIIII or CivIV we just call it Civ4?
 
more disasters. There should be constant problems to struggle against in each and every city. fires, earthquakes, revolts, floods etc.
as it stands now you can build a granary that lasts for 6000 years no problem. There should at least be an increased upkeep cost associated with each building. A 500 year old building should impart a huge culture rating but should have a proportional cost.
Also you should have to upgrade your buildings as time goes on. Add additions to your library to increase its value etc.
The whole city management is incredibly boring right now. Once you establish a city the only possible setback to its growth is invasion. There should be more dimensions of challenge to building a civilization that spans the ages.
All in all Civ 3 does not represent enough of an increase in strategic challenge than I hoped.
-----sumociv
 
The state-space of chess is noticably finite

the possible number of positions in a 40 move game is 10 to the 120th power.Thats 10 with 120 zeros.That number is significantly higher than the number of atoms in the observable universe.
And therein lies the problem.Do you have any idea how much something like deep blue costs?...how many "normal" people have a machine that is anywhere near powerful enough?

To get that kind of ai,we would all need to be filthy rich."Cheating" is all they have to work with
 
zeeter

Nice suggestions about the Colleges and city infrastructure.


My two cents/bits/whatever...

It would be nice to have borders not so 'square' looking. It's nice how they redefined rivers to be along the sides of the grid squares, maybe they could make the borders all wavy looking as well, it would make for a more interesting and realistic looking geography.
 
Back
Top Bottom