The AI in this game from what I can tell so far is just great and for people who like single player this is what is important. The Diplo is very frustrating as it should be and therefore fun. I am getting used to the changes in presentation which I consider superficial. Once you get used to it I think it will be fine. So far it appears this game has much more depth than the previous civs.
Civ IV doesn't compare to Civ III
- Thread starter massemo
- Start date
Ksim3000 said:
Right. I waited for Civ IV like it was my first unborn child, and then immediatly bought it and played it for hours -- I tried to hold judgment against it until I had enough expierence with it and I played it a lot. I upgraded my graphics card just for it. I really wanted to play it forever and love it -- but I cannot.
For whatever reason, in my opinion, CIV IV fails because if its interface and its attepmt to use 3d graphics . I think the differene between me and those who like Civ IV over Conquests is either (1) that those people enjoy graphical games with moving cows and growing trees, (2) they are so sick of Conquests that they just want a change and/or (3) they just can't bring themselves to the terrible resolution that (after waiting for such a long time) the game is disappointing.
My main point is, wouldn't the new ideas in Civ IV (such as religion, which I liked) be SO much more fun to play if the interface was like it was in Civ III? ITS THE INTERFACE PEOPLE!!![/B]
Who wouldn't have rahter seen the ideas raised in CIV IV implemented in the CIV III interface???
Stuie
Laudir Agus Mir
I like the new interface better. Civ 3's was clunky.
You guys know what? I bet most of these negative coments disapear with time.
I was having some semi negative feelings about Civ 4 too. After playing a huge islands map on warlord Dif. I felt unimmpressed after my victory. I wondered if the game had made such a huge change that is is no longer fun.
I started reading these forums yesterday and saw alot of posts with all sorts of concerns about the game. Then I started to feel that the posts were rubbing off on me, especially after having my own concerns.
Then I thought man I bet I just need to learn more about the game. For one I basicly just jumped right in and started playing. The game is ALOT different, and it is because of that that the game is easy to unlike. I decided to do some positive reading instead of reading all these complaints.
I read some of the Civ 4 walkthrough and realized how much I didnt understand. I opened up the manual and had a nice little read only to find more info I did not know about before starting up my next game.
Anywho my next game was 10 times more fun. All the sudden I didnt want to stop playing witch is what I expected from my first two day adventure. But with the first game I never felt that. It's hard to like what is new and unusual especially when you bought the game wanting to play the Civ we all know. I think this game grows on you
Maybe it's like music. Ever here a song you hated the first time? Then say man that song sucked, only to find that the more you hear it you start liking it and eventually you love the song.
I am sure I don't speak for everyone. But I bet I speak for alot of you who arent enjoying the "gameplay" aspects of the game. As for the tech probs and interface problems... I have no prob with either and I am not refering to those people at all in this post.
I was having some semi negative feelings about Civ 4 too. After playing a huge islands map on warlord Dif. I felt unimmpressed after my victory. I wondered if the game had made such a huge change that is is no longer fun.
I started reading these forums yesterday and saw alot of posts with all sorts of concerns about the game. Then I started to feel that the posts were rubbing off on me, especially after having my own concerns.
Then I thought man I bet I just need to learn more about the game. For one I basicly just jumped right in and started playing. The game is ALOT different, and it is because of that that the game is easy to unlike. I decided to do some positive reading instead of reading all these complaints.
I read some of the Civ 4 walkthrough and realized how much I didnt understand. I opened up the manual and had a nice little read only to find more info I did not know about before starting up my next game.
Anywho my next game was 10 times more fun. All the sudden I didnt want to stop playing witch is what I expected from my first two day adventure. But with the first game I never felt that. It's hard to like what is new and unusual especially when you bought the game wanting to play the Civ we all know. I think this game grows on you
Maybe it's like music. Ever here a song you hated the first time? Then say man that song sucked, only to find that the more you hear it you start liking it and eventually you love the song.
I am sure I don't speak for everyone. But I bet I speak for alot of you who arent enjoying the "gameplay" aspects of the game. As for the tech probs and interface problems... I have no prob with either and I am not refering to those people at all in this post.
Raziaar said:
I think they wrote the entire interface in python, therefore modders will be able to change everything with the interface.
And please, take time to learn the new interface, I find it amazingly usefull; I just think people are getting an information overflow. After a couple games you'll learn the icons, I have no trouble with them at all. Also, you should be getting a popup window whenever a city completes a building that is very similar to the civ III window.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
Spyder1 said:
The problem is looking for a societal effect of religions is very difficult, as most of them have Very similar societal effects. (especially when looking at history as opposed to doctrine) The fact is the religions do have different effects based on how the governments use them. Theocratic Hinduism is different from Pacifist Christianity, but the traits of these religions change based on their social environment (government civics).
Imagine what it would be like if they renamed Universal Suffrage "American way" / Police State to "Germanic government"/ Caste system "Indian society"/Mercantilism "French Economy" hey this is getting fun... in any case without detailed research it would Only serve as a lightning rod.
I like it better than C3Cmassemo said:I just don't identify with the Civ commercial anymore about having a lust for "one more turn" with Civ IV. The magic is gone. I really can't imagine anyone liking CIV IV better than Conquests -- AM I WRONG ANYONE?
P.S. I really wanted to love this game, but I just can't. I've been playing Civ since it was first released and I've loved it all -- except now. WHY DID THIS HAVE TO HAPPEN TO ME!!!
Harry Haller
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2005
- Messages
- 123
Overall, I like Civ 4 much better than Civ 3. I don't know why exactly, but I had a very strong dislike for Civ 3 and only played it a handful of times.
I like the religion aspect of it, although I do think that they could have created different effects for the different religions. They did this in, for example, Europa Universalis, where your religion choices affect not only how you get along with your neighbors, but also things like how innovative your culture is or how much you have to spend to maintain troops.
In some ways, Civ 4 reminds me more of EU than the earlier Civ games... except that your entire society doesn't crash into chaos for the next hour and a half when you switch religion.
I like the religion aspect of it, although I do think that they could have created different effects for the different religions. They did this in, for example, Europa Universalis, where your religion choices affect not only how you get along with your neighbors, but also things like how innovative your culture is or how much you have to spend to maintain troops.
In some ways, Civ 4 reminds me more of EU than the earlier Civ games... except that your entire society doesn't crash into chaos for the next hour and a half when you switch religion.
Civ III's interface was invasive, bland, and clunky. There was a lot of wasted space (and space is a premium on a 15" LCD running at 1024x768) and transitioning between various screens often left me feeling disconnected from the action.
The Civ IV interface, by comparison, takes a minimalistic approach. It only appears when I need it to and only shows me what I need to see. Nearly everything's available on the first screen and I rarely have to go more than one screen deep to get to "bigger" stuff. Heck, I can even jump directly to the trade diplomacy screen or declare war right from the main UI.
For those that love the older interface, though, it's there in parts. With time, I'm sure the modding community will create a sort of "classic UI" mod to give the others what they want (just like we'll be seeing a unit scale mod very shortly).
The Civ IV interface, by comparison, takes a minimalistic approach. It only appears when I need it to and only shows me what I need to see. Nearly everything's available on the first screen and I rarely have to go more than one screen deep to get to "bigger" stuff. Heck, I can even jump directly to the trade diplomacy screen or declare war right from the main UI.
For those that love the older interface, though, it's there in parts. With time, I'm sure the modding community will create a sort of "classic UI" mod to give the others what they want (just like we'll be seeing a unit scale mod very shortly).
doronron
King
It's deja vu all over again...
I recall people raising holy h*ll when Civ3 hit the streets. Many of the same complaints, too, in fact. The bulk of them were aimed at what they considered ugly graphics and interface, with only a few legit complaints leveled at things like the deadly corruption system. All of them kept going on about how Civ2 was so much better, and that Sid put graphics ahead of gameplay. They dumbed it down for the kiddies. The icons were miserable. Civ3 was the death of the franchise. The game woulda-coulda-shoulda been...Yadda yadda yadda.
Now we've got people worshipping Civ3 as the penultimate Civ game, with IV being its unwanted bastard sibling.
I fully expect to see the same complaints raised when Civ5 is released, with Civ4 being the next sacred cow.
I recall people raising holy h*ll when Civ3 hit the streets. Many of the same complaints, too, in fact. The bulk of them were aimed at what they considered ugly graphics and interface, with only a few legit complaints leveled at things like the deadly corruption system. All of them kept going on about how Civ2 was so much better, and that Sid put graphics ahead of gameplay. They dumbed it down for the kiddies. The icons were miserable. Civ3 was the death of the franchise. The game woulda-coulda-shoulda been...Yadda yadda yadda.
Now we've got people worshipping Civ3 as the penultimate Civ game, with IV being its unwanted bastard sibling.
I fully expect to see the same complaints raised when Civ5 is released, with Civ4 being the next sacred cow.
You've said exactly what I've been thinking, doronron. 
Stardog13 said:
I think its exactly that "information overflow" and you dont feel in-control as you did in CIV3, you dont know the diffrences between all the options and what decision you can make. But if you just slow down and learn all the options and icons and then after a while you wont think and be confussed so much and just play.
To advise: Dont play Epic if you dont want a very slow start and dont play on lower difficulties if you are a civ fanatic. I would recommend a few test games on noble but then as soon as you know the items switch to monarch or emperor. Its amazing how fast I learned this game even with all the new options.
And get a 24 inch widescreen monitor and run it at 1920*1200, its simply stunning.
doronron
King
Padma said:You've said exactly what I've been thinking, doronron.
It's deja vu all over again...
...wait a minute. I've been in this thread before...
Zhahz
PC Gamer
Well, it's a new game more than an upgrade/expansion to Civ3, and yes, many things including the interfaces are different. It threw me a bit at first but you get used to the changes and it didn't take me long to go from being apprehensive to being in love and having to be ripped from my game to work, etc.
Civ IV is like a whole new game so yeah, you'll have to learn some new things - but to me that's part of the fun.
I will agree somewhat about the icon thing - however - I almost never open the 'pedia in Civ IV because the interface presents so much information that there's almost no need.
Civ IV is like a whole new game so yeah, you'll have to learn some new things - but to me that's part of the fun.
I will agree somewhat about the icon thing - however - I almost never open the 'pedia in Civ IV because the interface presents so much information that there's almost no need.
Very glad Civ IV is so different from III, it means a very fresh challenge to develop new strategies and therefore bang for the buck.
massemo said:Right. I waited for Civ IV like it was my first unborn child, and then immediatly bought it and played it for hours -- I tried to hold judgment against it until I had enough expierence with it and I played it a lot. I upgraded my graphics card just for it. I really wanted to play it forever and love it -- but I cannot.
For whatever reason, in my opinion, CIV IV fails because if its interface and its attepmt to use 3d graphics . I think the differene between me and those who like Civ IV over Conquests is either (1) that those people enjoy graphical games with moving cows and growing trees, (2) they are so sick of Conquests that they just want a change and/or (3) they just can't bring themselves to the terrible resolution that (after waiting for such a long time) the game is disappointing.
My main point is, wouldn't the new ideas in Civ IV (such as religion, which I liked) be SO much more fun to play if the interface was like it was in Civ III? ITS THE INTERFACE PEOPLE!!![/B]
Who wouldn't have rahter seen the ideas raised in CIV IV implemented in the CIV III interface???
Massemo,
After reading this thread for a while, I was thinking it was just another creative difference thread, which is what it started out to be. Now the thread has grown into you making blanket statements about people who like the game, and you trying to press your negative opinions as the truth.
If the interface of Civ IV is irritating you, MOD IT. They included just about every tool you need to modify everything in the game. If the game play is too simple for you, jack the game up to DIETY difficulty. Did you know that you can turn off all the fancy little graphic tid bits and make the game basically look like Civ 3?
At any rate, sorry you wasted your money and you won't give the game a fair chance. But if its only the UI and the graphics that are bugging you, MOD the UI, turn off the graphics.... But Civ 3 is what you really want (or a Civ 3 expansion).. My advice, go play it, if you're too lazy to modifiy Civ 4...
PennHead
Chieftain
massemo said:
Please don't tell me why I like the game. I already told you why. It's just plain rude for you to tell those that like the game that they either only care about graphics, are just burned out on C3C, or are in denial and actually don't like it at all. Why is it so hard for you to accept that there are people with a different opinion than you? I like the game for the gameplay. Many people have come into this thread and said as much. But yet, you want to just lump us into insulting categories.
I can accept that you don't like Civ4 for reasons I disagree with, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect you to accept that many of us like it for reasons you disagree with. Please respect others opinions.
Bolgard
Chieftain
For me, personally, Civ IV is a far and away better, more addictive game than Civ III could ever hope to be at this point. Sure, there are always a few things developers aren't going to get to everyone's liking, but I can't go back to Civ III at this point. I'm sold.
Mujadaddy
Geheim Grammar Polizei
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 1,082
This is the sum total of Massemo (the original poster)'s argument...lafta said:Massemo, I couldnt have put it better.
A "CRY" emoticon ---
There's a saying where I come from --CRY M0RE N00B!
I'm loving how much new stuff there is to learn.
