Civ IV Reference Charts

[cabert]

I just signed up to say thank you for this nice work. I printed it and will keep it on my desk while playing..... very nice indeed. Keep the good work.

first post = welcome aboard abu

 

[ModernKnight]

I've been using these charts a good while, they've been a GREAT aid, my hat off to Kroym and all others who helped.

I was doing some spreadsheet calculations and suddenly realized that many (all?) of the production costs are different from what I'm seeing in the game (v1.6). For example, Hanging Gardens costs me 450, not 300 as stated in the City Building worksheet. At first glance, it looks like all my costs are 50% more, across the board.

I must be missing something. Is it dependent on difficulty level or something?

Edit: Also I just noticed, the Coal Plant is not producing 2 sickness for me? This is in a city without Recycling, and other buildings show sickness as expected. Is this some odd civic trait function I've missed, or something?

 

[Michelangelo]

@ModernKnight,

Good to hear the work is appreciated.

What difficulty level are you playing? I checked all the values ingame on a noble difficulty level. IIRC cost do change with difficulty level.

Maybe a cost-difficulty modifier would be a good addition. I will look into that.

 

[ModernKnight]

Hiya Michelangleo, thanks for the reply...

This is a Prince, Tiny, Epic game. I just checked more - approx two-thirds of buildings - and every single one is +50% compared to the spreadsheet.

In this advanced game, I have few wonders left to build. But the three I do (palace, manhattan, SDI) are also +50%.

I would think a simple, small table of +/- percents relative to difficulty level (or whatever determines it) in kroym's xls would be fine. Or maybe let folks choose their level, and the spreadsheet changes to reflect their costs.

No need to have umpteen cost columns, though. Is how I feel.

Thanks if you can let me know just what governs it, and the corresponding percents. I'm making something that you might (or might not!) want to add to kroym's sheet. Knowing the right costs will keep it from "surprising" folks.

P.S. Re: the coal plant: I just realized that coal power adds sickness directly to the city. It is not associated with the plant per se. So you see it on the main Health bar as its own add-in, not as +2 sick next to the coal plant. The practical difference is that Recycling Center does not remove this sickness.

 

[cabert]

Hiya Michelangleo, thanks for the reply...

This is a Prince, Tiny, Epic game. I just checked more - approx two-thirds of buildings - and every single one is +50% compared to the spreadsheet.

In this advanced game, I have few wonders left to build. But the three I do (palace, manhattan, SDI) are also +50%.
QUOTE]

here you have it : epic is 50% slower, so +50% building costs
marathon is 100% slower so +100% building costs AFAIK (never played, nor run, marathon!)

 

[mathieu_gilbert]

Guess I'll add my thanks to the list as well. Very usefull charts, most usefull for me is the combat upgrade chart.

 

[Michelangelo]

Thanx Cabert for clarifying, it makes sense this way.

Some buildings might be "normal" cost as a result of a civ-trait were something would be 50% cheaper, resulting in a net 0% change.

Or maybe let folks choose their level, and the spreadsheet changes to reflect their costs.

You wish !!!
But seriously, these charts are also meant to be printed, and having them changed with a lot of options makes them much less printable. If I get the time I'll add a speed correction table.

 

[opti0n]

Love the charts, very helpful.

I'm looking to find a table that shows the culture expansion levels for cites and how they increase (does speed and map size change this). Along the same lines, i'd like to see the GPPs needed to build the next GP (can improvements lower this number?) and how the GP % likelyhood is figured.

Any info would be helpful. If anyone can point me to raw info, i'll be happy to build the tables.

 

[ModernKnight]

Thanks, all...

Michela, I feel your pain... kroym's ss already has umpteen pages. If it had just a few, it might make sense to have breakouts and flexibility. But not at this level. But to cut to the chase, why not add a note saying the effect of Speed, which Cabert has kindly pointed out as the operand in effect. Makes sense to me, too, Cabert - thanks for pointing us both in the right direction.

I will pop open a few new games and check the production costs at all speeds. Then perhaps you could add it as a footnote to the Building page, or something like that. ("These costs are for x speed. For y speed add...")

Opti0n, I will check to see if culture changes by Speed as well, but I'll only be making a few turns on each speed, so I'm not sure what I'll be able to see.

 

[rhans405]

Kroym - Thank you very much for your hard work. I appreciate your level of organization. I'm new here but I wanted to give you a

 

[_alphaBeta_]

Hiya Michelangleo, thanks for the reply...

This is a Prince, Tiny, Epic game. I just checked more - approx two-thirds of buildings - and every single one is +50% compared to the spreadsheet.

In this advanced game, I have few wonders left to build. But the three I do (palace, manhattan, SDI) are also +50%.

I would think a simple, small table of +/- percents relative to difficulty level (or whatever determines it) in kroym's xls would be fine. Or maybe let folks choose their level, and the spreadsheet changes to reflect their costs.

No need to have umpteen cost columns, though. Is how I feel.

Thanks if you can let me know just what governs it, and the corresponding percents. I'm making something that you might (or might not!) want to add to kroym's sheet. Knowing the right costs will keep it from "surprising" folks.

What exactly are you looking for? Something like this, but with the cost of buildings changing?

 

[GABB]

...Along the same lines, i'd like to see the GPPs needed to build the next GP (can improvements lower this number?) and how the GP % likelyhood is figured...

Read this excelent post:

 

[Michelangelo]

I will pop open a few new games and check the production costs at all speeds. Then perhaps you could add it as a footnote to the Building page, or something like that. ("These costs are for x speed. For y speed add...").

That would be of great help. Thanx. I was thinking to do it in this way to. You can PM your findings to me or include them in the charts yourself.

Opti0n, I will check to see if culture changes by Speed as well, but I'll only be making a few turns on each speed, so I'm not sure what I'll be able to see.

IIRC the culture needed to have a border expansion increases with game-speed, but I don't recall it changing with difficulty.

@all
Keep linking usefull posts to include.

 

[Jayavarman]

Thanks guys. This is really helpful.

 

[cabert]

one more thing that changes, one more useful foot note :
at standard size you need 3 temples to build a cathedral, at large size you need 4, huge ?...
I'm pretty sure it changes for globe theater, oxford uni, ironworks ... too, but could not find the figures.

 

[Hathcyn]

Thanks Kroym I've found the charts to be very helpful.

 

[Codeman]

great work guys. and thanks for updating with the new patch. to often these 'helpful hints' are done with a certain version and a patch comes out but the 'help' is never updated.

once again. good job great follow through!

 

[YourMajesty]

Thank you for your time consuming hard work

 

[Grogs]

My thanks to Kroym, Michelangelo, and anyone else who has helped out on these charts. I downloaded the original 1.00 version back when the Civilopedia was seriously awful and I've been using one version or another ever since.

I have found what looks to be an error in the v1.6 excel charts I wanted to bring to your attention. Under special abilities for knights on the units tab, the chart lists +25% hills defense. This ability doesn't show up in the Civilopedia, the mouseover data, or the combat odds. Is it perhaps a holdover from a previous patch?

Thanks,

Grogs

 

[O.H.Dog]

Well done. I was looking for something else, and I stumbled on your reference charts. I was just thinking about updating my building list, but I would be better off contributing to yours. I'll PM you when I have some suggestions.

One that comes to mind is a game speed selector to show the correct build costs for the chosen game speed.