Civ IV wishlist

[Coorae]

Warriors shouldnt be as good at military police as medieval infantry are. It is so stupid that I should destroy my road to iron so I can make cheap military police, because I couldnt build warriors anymore.

Each recource should have an amount number that you can see, that goes down every time you build comething that requires that recource until it is exausted. Much better than the current based on randomity and nothing else method. (The lazyest possible way to progam it)

The editor should have a scripting language. you could make when conditions occour, units appear or move somewhere or make it so you get money for kills. Thats why Starcraft is still such a popular game.

You shouldnt be able to cycle cities at the beginning of your turn to get to a city that hasnt yet been updated and change something, becuase you can only do it if a city earlier in the updating list finished something or went into civil disorder.

The AI shouldnt always retreat to heal when their unit is missing 1 health point. sometimes the AI will have a transport one tile away from the shore of my undefended cities, and I bombard it, then on thier turn they could unload then retreat, but no were missing one health, RUN.

 

[eg577]

To expand on Ordep's idea, maybe trade routes should have physical units (like a naval version of the caravan) which automatically travel back and forth between the harbors and can thus be intercepted if you want to interfere with the trade.

 

[farting bob]

what abou having trade "caravans" on land and sea, and later have planes when airports cpome. these cpoudl be atacked at any time by barbs or civs at war with you. give them a movement poitn of 5 or somethign cause otherwise you will never get to the far away places to trade with. so if you make a agrrement with the aztecs for 50 gold and world maps for dies, your trader starts going through peaceful territory until he can get to the aztec capital, and the aztec trader does the same. you coudl have a max of 5 traders out at any time, so you couldnt get a tech and sell it to everybody in 1 turn.
techs could require a trader to stay in the capital cioty for a turn to "teach" them, then goes back.

 

[Ordep]

Just following up on the trade idea:

Anytime you want to get resources from one city to another and you need to either cross ocean or territory that is not your own (someone else's or unclaimed), you have to establish a trade route. You determine the path that the route follows, and each turn from then on a small, free "caravan" unit (either land or sea) leaves the harbors and travels the route. Once the caravan unit gets to the other harbor all the cities on that side of the route get the resources/luxuries. Because one of these units leaves each turn, once the first unit gets to the destination the flow of resources/luxuries will occur each turn unless interupted. The trade route can be changed at any point, but the caravans in transport have will have to adjust their course accordingly.

The caravans themselves will be capturable, and if captured and returned to one of your cities you get a financial reward (a set amount of gold per luxury/resource). The caravan's movement rate and the types of water it can cross will depend upon the technology level of your civ. This includes the land caravans (start with one (3 on road), with wheel it is 2, etc.), which can use roads of friendly civs (unless there is an embargo in effect). I haven't decided if there should be an initial cost for establishing a trade route, or a cost for maintaining one.

I'm thinking this would add increased improtance to naval considerations, as well as some interesting (and more realistic) trade considerations. Plus, think of how cool it would be to use privateers to capture rival civ's caravans, disrupting their trade and earning yourself a little booty.

 

[Punkymonkey]

I think they got rid of the freight and caravan units for a reason. It was dragging down the game into they monontonous attempt of remembering where which caravan went and which cities had the resources and the drain it had on city production. I eould only build caravans in civ 1 and 2 at the end of the game where my civ was too big to support itself and needed extra income. I think the way it is ow provides for a steady cash flow and maybe instead use a system they had in CTP2 where there were trade routes a physical lines on the map and if you were at war you could go on the route and disrupt trade. Don't misunderstand, CTP was a horrible game but had some good concepts such as this, auto-target ICBMs that launch to designayed targets if you are attacked with nukes by that country and the whole national border idea.

 

[Ordep]

Originally posted by Punkymonkey
I think they got rid of the freight and caravan units for a reason. It was dragging down the game into they monontonous attempt of remembering where which caravan went and which cities had the resources and the drain it had on city production. I eould only build caravans in civ 1 and 2 at the end of the game where my civ was too big to support itself and needed extra income. I think the way it is ow provides for a steady cash flow and maybe instead use a system they had in CTP2 where there were trade routes a physical lines on the map and if you were at war you could go on the route and disrupt trade. Don't misunderstand, CTP was a horrible game but had some good concepts such as this, auto-target ICBMs that launch to designayed targets if you are attacked with nukes by that country and the whole national border idea.

I think you misunderstand: what I propose is that there are steady lines representing trade routes, but that these lines are represented by a continuous flow of caravans which automaticly go from one point to another. The caravans are made and move automaticly each turn, and do not count as a unit for maintenance.

 

[Punkymonkey]

I like the line idea but there shouldn't be a unit is all i'm saying. It wouldn't be an every turn thing then and if you're in a fix and relying on foreign trade money waiting a couple turns just complicates matters

 

[redstoner]

I agree, no actual units. That's why I never conducted trade in any of the previous versions. I hated that I had to build the unit and move it to an opponants city to establish trade.

The idea of a line representing the trade route is a good one if they could figure out a good way to disrupt trade (and steal goods) without having another unit moving around the board.

I got a couple more wishes for CIV IV:

I'd like to have the ability to bribe enemy units again, like you could in older versions. I used that alot and was dissapointed it wasn't included in CIV 3.

Also, I miss the casualty lists for each civ that Civ 1 (and maybe 2, can't recall) had. I liked to look at how many enemy units I'd destroyed and compare to how many I'd lost. You could incorporate this with the Intellegence Agency, and if you have a spy, gain the ability to steal the enemies casualty reports.

 

[Winston]

I would be happy to see an improved trade system with visible and disruptable trade routes (although it might be a good idea to provide key controls that would toggle between hiding the trade routes and showing them - otherwise the map could look a bit messy and crowded at times). I would also like cities to be able to trade more goods than only luxuries and strategic resources. I think cities should be able to trade regional manufactured goods (e.g. textiles, machine tools, beer) and local resources (e.g. timber, stone, metal ores) with other cities i.e. city to city trade as opposed to nation to nation trade. City to city trade should not have to be reliant upon diplomatic negotiations between national leaders but should be more along the lines of the caravan system in civ 2 (but if people don't like caravan units then how about civs needing to pay an initial sum of gold to set up the trade route (similar to civ 3s embassy system)). The traded resources shouldnt be requirements for units or city improvements but instead should be divided into the following 3 groups:
1) Food resources (e.g. Cattle, Fruit, Wheat etc) - this should increase trade arrows in both trading cities and should divert 2 food from city A to city B
2) Local natural resources (e.g. Timber, Stone, Metal Ores) - this should also increase trade arrows in both cities and should divert 2 shields from city A to city B
3) Other goods (i.e. anything that a city could make and isnt covered by the other categories) - this should only increase trade arrows in both cities (no diverted shields or food).
These changes would make trade far more important and would create lots of different trade routes that your land units and ships would need to defend (finally ships will be useful).

 

[dguichar]

Originally posted by farting bob
what abou having trade "caravans" on land and sea...

On having "caravans" as units... that'll be regressive. We'll be going back to Civ2 trade system.

But having "caravans" as an abstract system, just like diplomacy is now, it'll be pretty nice.

Keep civilized
David

 

[Winston]

Other items on my wishlist would include:
1) Rebelling conquered cities (as discussed in the forum 'the rise and fall of nations') instead of astronomical corruption and waste.
2) Different role for the UN (one of the forums (can't remember which one) suggested having the UN as a means by which civs could issue edicts and bans - could be interesting)
3) Captured cities should create guerrilas (like in civ 2) instead of/as well as the resistance thing (I have never lost a city to resisters - but the guerrilas in civ 2 always gave me agro)
4) There should be three levels of irrigation to represent the advances that have been made in agriculture (could have an initial level of irrigation to represent ancient and medieval agriculture, then could have a second tier to represent 18th C, 19th C, and early 20th C agriculture, and then could have a third tier to represent modern agriculture).
5) Similarly, there should be 3 tiers of road (road, railroad, and motorway) and none of these improvements should allow infinite move. Only roads should provide tile bonuses (+1 trade) as this would provide less incentive to cover the map with railroads.
6) Perhaps Civ 4 could provide 2 UUs per civ and also trait specific units and culture specific units
7) I would definitely like to see more than just 3 Industrial Age Great Wonders - considering all the major advances of that time, the developers could have came up with more than 3.
8) I would like to see options in the editor that allow people to confer bonuses to civs that discover certain advances e.g. 'First civ to discover tech gains free advance' or 'discovery of tech provides one extra content citizen in each city' or 'discovery of tech reduces corruption in each city' or 'discovery of tech provides +2 Attack +2 Defence to units X, Y, and Z'
9) I would like to see city improvements as requirements for units (these ideas have been discussed elsewhere in another forum)
10) I would like to see events options in the editor
11) It would be nice to see some more early 20th C units and techs
12) Graphics for multiple soldiers on each tile (as opposed to a single soldier/ship etc)
13) Maybe units should have movement bonuses depending on the number of years represented in a turn e.g. in the early turns where its 50yrs per turn, maybe units should go 5 times faster? This would make things more realistic but it would need to be implemented very carefully (a horseman that travels 10 squares a turn is a scary thought)
I know this is a long list, but it would be greatly appreciated if the designers at Firaxis would at least seriously consider these suggestions when they decide to make civ 4

 

[farting bob]

Originally posted by dguichar


On having "caravans" as units... that'll be regressive. We'll be going back to Civ2 trade system.

But having "caravans" as an abstract system, just like diplomacy is now, it'll be pretty nice.

Keep civilized
David

so any idea that peopel like from previous civs or SMAC or whatever, should not be included because it's been doen before? many ideas could be put inot civ4 from civ2, maybe a little different, but still the basic idea, that werent in civ3. its not reressive, just learnign from the past. sid might have thought civ3 would look better withou caravans, btu after makign a game without hem, he might relise it improves gameplay an makes it more in depth than it currently is.

 

[Ordep]

As far as caravan's as units:

The plan as I see it is very different then the Civ2 system.

My vision wouldn't have them as units as units are in the current game. Trade would be along lines, but instead of the trade arriving in a continuous stream it would arrive as packets (caravans) that are released once per turn from the originating city. If the city that you are trading with is 6 moves away and the packet moves 3, there would be a 1 turn delay for trade to start, but once the trade started it would arrive every turn, so it would act like a continuous stream.

There are two reasons I like this idea.

First, if it was just a line then any time the line was interupted you could just make a new line. Also, whether the line was the most direct or not would not matter. With my system if a line is interupted there would be a delay in starting the new line, and choosing a less direct trade route would have disadvantages.

Second, having the packets of supplies out there would open the possibility to piracy. Give a gold bonus to the capture of one of these packets, and you add a whole new dimention to the game (and a whole new use for privateers.)

As an option you could either see the trade routes as caravans, lines or not see them at all at your discretion.

 

[Pirate]

I like the current system of trading luxuries and resources, but I would like to see the negotiation process refined. The mindless ping-ponging to find the precise number of gold they will accept/pay is just time-consuming and not strategic at all, especially since your advisor will tell you if it's acceptable or not before you even offer the deal.

Also, leaders are a great concept that deserve to be expanded. Religious, Naval, etc... have all been suggested in other threads. The possibilities should be explored.

 

[DAKjungF]

* SMAC style unit generation:

Types defined by technology, age of civilisation, resources, etc.
For example, you start with a warrior-like base unit. His only additions is a Flint Axe (1 attack), and no armour. But, unlike SMAC, I would like to see hair/skin colour defined, clothing alterable, etc. Later you could add him a horse, elephant, dogs, whatever, to add speed/attack/defence/abilities. Also the ability to combine base units (Horse dragging a chariot along, with three men on it, two holding bows and one a sword).

* To solve the unique unit problem you might be pondering about right now, they can be pre-built units...

* Also, more personalised civilisations, and chooseable leaders, each with his own strenghts and weaknesses.

* More from SMAC:
An heavily extended version of the social engineering tab, where you could choose combinations such as type of government, economics and value, including future engineering. Civ IV could face government, economics and value, introducing religion, national aim (choosing among a variety of aims, such as economical domination, ruling the seas, strenghten peasantry, strenghten nobility, mobilisation, imperalism, and many more)
There should also be different sub-types of social settings, such as communism, but setting sub-type to people's republic, dictatorship, multi-party socialism, etc.

To put it differently, there should be no limits to the amount of options included!

* The ability to set up puppet regimes, instead of obilerating them. You can then set their strategy in a tab, much like the social engineering tab, but less onerous.

* To strenghten that, there should be much more prolonged resistance after conquest, in form of militias, organised rebellions, strikes, etc.

* Those reactions might also come if your social engineering setting is too big a piece for your people to swallow. (If you set your government to fascist, and you have just conquered a democratic nation)



I have a LOT of suggestions, now I am just brainstorming what comes into my mind, since I can't find the document where I put all my ideas...

 

[Zenon_pt]

If there is a Wonder called Shakespeare’s Theatre, why there isn’t no Theatre, Cinema, Museum or Opera as a city improvement??? They are, of course, Culture City Improvements and create tourist, culture and scientific value to a nation.

And reintroduce Refrigeration as part of the Tech-tree. For increasing food bonus per square, and build super-markets in the cities. (civ2)!!!

An option to irrigation of tundra!!!

Give Explores the capacity to be ambassador and create embassies. Of course by using him, he’ll be lost and the diplomatic embassy created!!!

And BTW give a change to put some music’s MP3 or others files for listening when playing… It’s a bite annoying managing the CPU between game and music…

Zenon, The Philosopher

 

[troytheface]

First of all I think the ideas and graphics of civ are cool. Great game, good job whoever worked on this. Additions I would like to see (and most i have stated before)....
Navy/Air- have some kind of form of battle system that makes it more fun. Navy battles turned the tide of many a war and changed history-air power has done and will probably do the same in the future-
WW1 era planes-tech! For the graphics alone ! (also as a precurser to a nations air power-
Water that moves!
Weather changes! (a rainy or warm or ice period that comes
during a turn-)
Slavers-slave revolts....
Civil War...(have no idea how or why they could occur)
maybe couple it with revolutions-say if u stay in monarchy to long and get to much money-then ur population revolts-ie french rev-american rev-russian rev-

 

[garner]

I agree with the alot of the comments on the trade system,
the way it was done in civ2 was cumbersome. i had a paper pad with list of cities that i could trade with and what my cities had.


but as for what should be done with the next civ as regards trade. i think it was a mistake to remove the ability to trade food.
it was useful to trade food from a huge surplus city with one that was in a desert but had a resource there.

the abilty to attack trade routes would be a great addition to the next one, it was used in ctp but not too well.

for me the best addition to the game would be the ability to broker cease fires between other powers. if you look back in history this was the measure of a true power.

 

[Strider]

More naval/air units and being able to dog fight (airplane vs airplane)

 

[DAKjungF]

Originally posted by troytheface

Slavers-slave revolts....

If I remember correctly, Firaxis left it out in the original Civilzation 3 game, because of the atrocities of slavery in the real world.