Civ VI Funny/Strange Screenshots

[Boris Gudenuf]

@Boris Gudenuf Sorry, but no fictional universe will ever be more perfect than Middle-earth. Curse you, Tolkien, for writing the perfect story forty years before I was born, and for simultaneously creating a genre but doing it so well that no one else has ever even approached the bar you set for the genre! (It's actually kind of interesting that there's nothing like it in its cousin genre, sci-fi. I could name any number of works that were foundational to sci-fi or are giants of the genre, but none of them casts such a long shadow over sci-fi as Tolkien's legendarium does over fantasy.)

No question that Tolkien had and has absolutely matchless influence on the entire fantasy genre. The problem is, his influence was so overwhelming, that for 20 or more years you kept reading the same Tolkien-esque stories over and over again. The same Elf, the same Dwarf, the same Great Dark Overlord of Evil In His Dark Mountain and yadda yadda yadda. For a long time I kept an oath I'd made to myself to never buy or read another book with Dragon in the title Because I Was So Sick Of Reading The Same Book Over And Over.
It's gotten a little better now, with folks like George Martin and Guy Gavriel Kay doing some very different things with the genre and being really good writers to boot.

But, and this is my answer to why I research and write History instead of trying to write Fantasy:
Imagine a Great Dark Lord of Evil: he attacks his neighbors, enslaves their soldiers, burns their towns and palaces... And corresponds with every intellectual in the country, plays the flute and writes music - I just described, briefly, Friedrich II (Der Grosse) of Prussia: the fantasy genre very rarely shows enough imagination to equal what history can throw at you...

Oh, in Sci Fi, although not in one work, but Robert Heinlein's body of work probably had as much influence on classic Science Fiction: virtually every Trope of the genre - he did first: the time-travel paradox, the sub-light multi-generation ship, the Immortal going from ancient history to the future, the Future Soldier, the Other Planet Colony and Colonists - he was first and set the pace for almost everything everybody did afterwards.

 

[Zaarin]

No question that Tolkien had and has absolutely matchless influence on the entire fantasy genre. The problem is, his influence was so overwhelming, that for 20 or more years you kept reading the same Tolkien-esque stories over and over again. The same Elf, the same Dwarf, the same Great Dark Overlord of Evil In His Dark Mountain and yadda yadda yadda. For a long time I kept an oath I'd made to myself to never buy or read another book with Dragon in the title Because I Was So Sick Of Reading The Same Book Over And Over.

I simultaneously agree and disagree. Yes, the bulk of fantasy since Tolkien has imitated Tolkien, but Standard Fantasy Elves rarely are anything like the Eldar, etc. While the imitation is flattering, not much of it (by which I mean absolutely none of it) lives up to the depth, breadth, and sheer beauty of Tolkien.

It's gotten a little better now, with folks like George Martin and Guy Gavriel Kay doing some very different things with the genre and being really good writers to boot.

Considering I think George R. R. Martin is a blight on the genre and on the industry in general...no comment.

Oh, in Sci Fi, although not in one work, but Robert Heinlein's body of work probably had as much influence on classic Science Fiction: virtually every Trope of the genre - he did first: the time-travel paradox, the sub-light multi-generation ship, the Immortal going from ancient history to the future, the Future Soldier, the Other Planet Colony and Colonists - he was first and set the pace for almost everything everybody did afterwards.

Fair, but I don't think people throw in the towel because of Heinlein; Tolkien's inspired as many writers to quit as he has to write. As far as sci-fi as literature goes, A Canticle for Leibowitz and The Left Hand of Darkness are the names that stand out to me, especially the former--indeed, A Canticle for Leibowitz and Lord of the Rings are probably the only speculative fiction (in the modern sense, so excluding authors like Wells and Verne) that the establishment has more or less reached consensus on accepting (they still pitch fits occasionally, but for the most part...).

 

[God of Kings]

Considering I think George R. R. Martin is a blight on the genre and on the industry in general...no comment.

Agreed.

Martin (and some others) is responsible for the trend in making fantasy literature (and other fantasy media) dark, depressing, and cynical.

Even Final Fantasy succumbed to this trend!

I much prefer the Nintendo-era Final Fantasy games by the way.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

My university (main campus, not the one I attended) had a course on Harry Potter.

Considering I think George R. R. Martin is a blight on the genre and on the industry in general...no comment.

I actually took a class over Tolkien in college. I agree that is world building was great, but the stories dragged on and it took along time to advance the plot. Of course I might feel that way because my first ever experiences was starting with the extended edition DVDs at like 10 at night before I actually read the books.
That being said Harry Potter was my childhood and Game of Thrones/ASOIAF is my young adult life.

 

[Zaarin]

Agreed.

Martin (and some others) is responsible for the trend in making fantasy literature (and other fantasy media) dark, depressing, and cynical.

Even Final Fantasy succumbed to this trend!

I much prefer the Nintendo-era Final Fantasy games by the way.

I don't have a problem with dark per se, but ASoIaF, from my impressions of it, strips away everything that was beautiful in the Middle Ages, keeps and magnifies everything that was ugly, and then slaps on violence and sex to draw readership, with a final glaze of post-modernism for good measure. That's...very much not to my tastes.

I actually took a class over Tolkien in college. I agree that is world building was great, but the stories dragged on and it took along time to advance the plot. Of course I might feel that way because my first ever experiences was starting with the extended edition DVDs at like 10 at night before I actually read the books.
That being said Harry Potter was my childhood and Game of Thrones/ASOIAF is my young adult life.

Yeah, don't start with the films. The films are crap*. Tolkien certainly meanders a lot, but I'm a fan of that personally (though I won't lie, the Council of Elrond could be shorter...by a lot ). LotR should be approached more like literature, more like The Remains of the Day or Pride & Prejudice, than like your standard genre fantasy book. I know a lot of people are put off by his archaic use of language. Again, I personally find it beautiful, but both the language and the meandering are a matter of personal taste.

*That's the short version. I actually think that they're excellent films...just horrible adaptations. I could--and have--filled pages with everything Jackson did wrong in those films, and that's not even mentioning the abominations that are The Hobbit films, which I will not utter here.

 

[God of Kings]

I don't have a problem with dark per se, but ASoIaF, from my impressions of it, strips away everything that was beautiful in the Middle Ages, keeps and magnifies everything that was ugly, and then slaps on violence and sex to draw readership, with a final glaze of post-modernism for good measure. That's...very much not to my tastes.

Hear hear!

To me, based on what I have seen and heard, good writing or not, it's very much an angsty teenage edgelord's dream and I'm stating that without going afoul of CFC's rules.

The series is definitely not my cup of tea.

 

[WillowBrook]

Meanwhile, back on topic, my kids discovered tonight that Dory and Nemo live in the Great Barrier Reef.

Spoiler :

 

[Zaarin]

Well, I mean, both clownfish and blue tang live in the Great Barrier Reef in real life, so it makes sense...

 

[God of Kings]

So beautiful is the GBR.

Too bad that in real life, it's being destroyed.

 

[Leyrann]

@Boris Gudenuf Sorry, but no fictional universe will ever be more perfect than Middle-earth. Curse you, Tolkien, for writing the perfect story forty years before I was born, and for simultaneously creating a genre but doing it so well that no one else has ever even approached the bar you set for the genre! (It's actually kind of interesting that there's nothing like it in its cousin genre, sci-fi. I could name any number of works that were foundational to sci-fi or are giants of the genre, but none of them casts such a long shadow over sci-fi as Tolkien's legendarium does over fantasy.)

Sounds like you really do need to pick up Brandon Sanderson. He may just be the first fantasy writer (except arguably Terry Pratchett) to equal Tolkien, and he writes very fast (which is the opposite of Tolkien...). I mean, he's got four books planned to write this year alone, and he knows how to plan accurately.

 

[Katakanja]

Sounds like you really do need to pick up Brandon Sanderson. He may just be the first fantasy writer (except arguably Terry Pratchett) to equal Tolkien, and he writes very fast (which is the opposite of Tolkien...). I mean, he's got four books planned to write this year alone, and he knows how to plan accurately.

Ehh, his books are pulpy fun, but I hesitate to say that he's going to be to ascend to the level of greatness you're ascribing him I always get the impression he enjoys world-building more than anything else - as you mentioned earlier his magic systems and the like are usually well thought out and interesting, but often it makes the early parts of his books feel a bit too instruction manual-esque when explaining all the rules gets in the way. He also has a bad case of fantasy-writeritis - the illness that seems to inflict a lot of fantasy writers where they have to have a bigger and better series than anyone else, e.g. "My new series will be a five book epic!", "Hah, well mine will be eight, with a prequel trilogy and a book of short stories!", "Amateurs! Mine will be 12 books long and have at least 4 volumes of ancillary side stories and two appendices!"

@Zaarin, this is what I blame Tolkien more for than the banalisation of elves, dwarves, dragons, etc - he did his invented languages and extensive backstory histories as an academic exercise and for his own satisfaction, which is admirable, but unfortunately too many other people now seem to think they need to have that level of additional content to get taken "seriously", and just end up with a lot of... fluff I guess.

There comes a point where less is more IMO...

Oh, uh, this is a funny screenshot thread, not CFC literature club. Quick... something on topic...

I found that gif of Hojo I wanted! Here it is for anyone else that needs it -

 

[Leyrann]

Eh, guess I care more about the worldbuilding. I also really love his plot twists though, there's always a lot of surprises coming for you.

 

[Zaarin]

Sounds like you really do need to pick up Brandon Sanderson. He may just be the first fantasy writer (except arguably Terry Pratchett) to equal Tolkien, and he writes very fast (which is the opposite of Tolkien...). I mean, he's got four books planned to write this year alone, and he knows how to plan accurately.

I'm not sure writing fast is a recommendation--I mean, my favorite living writer, Kazuo Ishiguro, has writen eight books over the course of 36 years. But I'll check him out...

@Zaarin, this is what I blame Tolkien more for than the banalisation of elves, dwarves, dragons, etc - he did his invented languages and extensive backstory histories as an academic exercise and for his own satisfaction, which is admirable, but unfortunately too many other people now seem to think they need to have that level of additional content to get taken "seriously", and just end up with a lot of... fluff I guess.

There comes a point where less is more IMO...

I have to disagree. The incredible historical and linguistic depth of Middle-earth is what makes it stand head and shoulders above its competition. Sci-fi can get away with relying on tropes to background the setting and foreground the characters, but fantasy can't. Characters and plot are important in fantasy, but fantasy really stands or falls on the strength of its worldbuilding.

 

[Guandao]

Agreed.

Martin (and some others) is responsible for the trend in making fantasy literature (and other fantasy media) dark, depressing, and cynical.

Even Final Fantasy succumbed to this trend!

I much prefer the Nintendo-era Final Fantasy games by the way.

Poor FF.... I grew up watching my sibling play FF 6 to 10, then tried playing 12 (aka gorgeous overworld) and 13 (aka the long corridor)......

 

[Katakanja]

I have to disagree. The incredible historical and linguistic depth of Middle-earth is what makes it stand head and shoulders above its competition.

But at the same time, I don't have to be fluent in Elvish or know the entire genealogy of the Kings of Numenor or whatever else to actually enjoy the story of the Hobbit or the Lord of the Rings. What I was getting at is that it sometimes feels like too many modern fantasy writers look at Tolkien and take away the wrong ideas - the worldbuilding is there to support the story, and not the other way around. There's a reason he put that stuff in appendices; presumably even he himself knew that that level of detail wasn't for everyone.

Instead you get modern fantasy writers who feel like they've catalogued every tiny facet of their invented world to the point of absurdity, and it gets the point where you have to ask "Did you write this story because it has the potential to be something beautiful, or because you get to show off how clever you are?"

Poor FF.... I grew up watching my sibling play FF 6 to 10, then tried playing 12 (aka gorgeous overworld) and 13 (aka the long corridor)......

It's funny actually, I went into FF13 knowing all about how it was basically Corridor: The Game, and enjoyed for what it was initially. It wasn't until I got to the part about two thirds of the way through where you arrive on the surface of the planet in the "open-world" section of the game that I lost interest. It might be super-linear, but at least it does a good job of keeping up a sense of momentum to propel you through the game - then you hit that part and its just such a jarring shift that it made me loose interest tbh.

 

[Weraptor]

This is so very wrong

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I have to disagree. The incredible historical and linguistic depth of Middle-earth is what makes it stand head and shoulders above its competition. Sci-fi can get away with relying on tropes to background the setting and foreground the characters, but fantasy can't. Characters and plot are important in fantasy, but fantasy really stands or falls on the strength of its worldbuilding.

Which is precisely the 'crime' I lay at Tolkien's feet: far, far too many fantasy writers over the years simply made the Elves left-handed or the called the Orcs by some other name like Huns or Republicans, and used Tolkien's world for their own. In a word, he was Too D--n Good (mind you, the World would be a much better place if that 'complaint' was leveled at more writers), made the genre too popular (I worked 15 years in a bookstore, and lemme tell you, the Fantasy/Science Fiction section is about 80% fantasy, and that's not even counting the Teen Fantasy section, which is almost as large!) so that publishers (and writers) trying to make a buck will spew out almost anything that can be labeled 'fantasy'. And God Help Me, I think over the years I have read most of that garbage, which led to my dissatisfaction with so much of the genre.

And then I read something like Hughart's "Bridge of Birds', a comic-fantasy set in "an ancient China that never was, but should have been." and my faith is restored, at least for a while...

And before anybody calls me too negative about fantasy, I'd just like to point out that in my own field, military history, there is a fair amount of fantasy published that doesn't even have the guts to call itself that, and so Rips Off the reader twice over!

And now, please everyone excuse me for again hi-jacking the thread. In my defense, based on the screenshots themselves, it could be labeled "Civ VI Fantasy Screenshots" with no change in content...

 

[Zaarin]

But at the same time, I don't have to be fluent in Elvish or know the entire genealogy of the Kings of Numenor or whatever else to actually enjoy the story of the Hobbit or the Lord of the Rings. What I was getting at is that it sometimes feels like too many modern fantasy writers look at Tolkien and take away the wrong ideas - the worldbuilding is there to support the story, and not the other way around. There's a reason he put that stuff in appendices; presumably even he himself knew that that level of detail wasn't for everyone.

Instead you get modern fantasy writers who feel like they've catalogued every tiny facet of their invented world to the point of absurdity, and it gets the point where you have to ask "Did you write this story because it has the potential to be something beautiful, or because you get to show off how clever you are?"

All good points. The depth comes from the instinctive sense that the world is bigger than what you see of it (because it is), not because the author has decided to give you a guided tour of the sum total of the world he made. (As an aside, it's actually really fascinating how far Tolkien went out of his way to avoid using his invented languages. For example, all of the Hobbits' names are translated into English [or Celtic, in the case of Meriadoc] equivalents--their actual names were Maura Labingi, Banazîr Galbasi, Kalimac Brandagamba, and Razanur Tûk. The same was done with the Rohirrim.)

Which is precisely the 'crime' I lay at Tolkien's feet: far, far too many fantasy writers over the years simply made the Elves left-handed or the called the Orcs by some other name like Huns or Republicans, and used Tolkien's world for their own. In a word, he was Too D--n Good (mind you, the World would be a much better place if that 'complaint' was leveled at more writers), made the genre too popular (I worked 15 years in a bookstore, and lemme tell you, the Fantasy/Science Fiction section is about 80% fantasy, and that's not even counting the Teen Fantasy section, which is almost as large!) so that publishers (and writers) trying to make a buck will spew out almost anything that can be labeled 'fantasy'. And God Help Me, I think over the years I have read most of that garbage, which led to my dissatisfaction with so much of the genre.

This is true, but it's hardly Tolkien's fault that the rest of the industry decided that imitating Tolkien for the next fifty years was "good enough." In fact, I really blame Gary Gygax for that--a lot of the garbage fantasy out there is basically ripping off D&D's debasement of Tolkien more than Tolkien himself.

I write fantasy myself, and I basically have a policy that if it so much as obliquely inspired Tolkien I won't touch it; I don't need to be compared to Tolkien, thank you very much. Yes, most Tolkien-esque fantasy is garbage, but I don't think that's really an indictment of the man himself.

And before anybody calls me too negative about fantasy, I'd just like to point out that in my own field, military history, there is a fair amount of fantasy published that doesn't even have the guts to call itself that, and so Rips Off the reader twice over!

Best. Line. Ever.

And now, please everyone excuse me for again hi-jacking the thread. In my defense, based on the screenshots themselves, it could be labeled "Civ VI Fantasy Screenshots" with no change in content...

 

[Guandao]

I admired Tolkien and cite him as an influence on my work....but once again, his work is a little bit outdated. Modern Fantasy writers need to look outside the box (or Western Europe) for inspiration. So many possible areas....Levant, Mesopotamia, Mesoamerica, Eastern Woodlands, PNW, Puebloan/and non-Puebloan SW, Polynesia, Micronesia, Papua/Melanesia, Australia, Maritime and Mainland SE Asia, South China, North China, Himalayas, South Asia, Central Asia, Siberia, Iran, Yemen, Nubia, Horn of Africa, Central Africa, Southern Africa, West Africa, North Africa, Anatolia, Eastern Europe, Arctic North America, Tierra de la Fuego, Amazonia, Gran Chaco, Circum-Caribbean, coastal and highland Andes, among many others....

If Tolkien were alive today, he might portray the Black Numenoreans, Haradrim, and Easterlings in a more nuanced matter. I mean PJ's movie intentionally dehumanized these ethnic groups due to the post-911 climate in America...gave them masks to conceal their faces.....

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

This is true, but it's hardly Tolkien's fault that the rest of the industry decided that imitating Tolkien for the next fifty years was "good enough." In fact, I really blame Gary Gygax for that--a lot of the garbage fantasy out there is basically ripping off D&D's debasement of Tolkien more than Tolkien himself.

While Gary was smart enough to 'cloak' D&D in the Tolkien wrapper, his mis-conceptions about 'fantasy' pre-date Tolkien. I may be one of the few folks left around that played some of Gygax's pre-D&D 'historical' miniatures rules-sets, including a 'Medieval' battle game that included the Beloved-of-English-Historians Radar-Guided, Terminally Homing, Ultra-Long-Range Shaped Charge Warhead English Longbow Arrow. The English Longbow in those rules was a weapon that could do everything but fetch the morning paper, and along with other inanities (not all recognized by the amateur historians that played the rules) it made a 'historical' set of medieval battle rules into a pure fantasy game, with nary a mention of Orc nor Hobbit...

I admired Tolkien and cite him as an influence on my work....but once again, his work is a little bit outdated. Modern Fantasy writers need to look outside the box (or Western Europe) for inspiration. So many possible areas....Levant, Mesopotamia, Mesoamerica, Eastern Woodlands, PNW, Puebloan/and non-Puebloan SW, Polynesia, Micronesia, Papua/Melanesia, Australia, Maritime and Mainland SE Asia, South China, North China, Himalayas, South Asia, Central Asia, Siberia, Iran, Yemen, Nubia, Horn of Africa, Central Africa, Southern Africa, West Africa, North Africa, Anatolia, Eastern Europe, Arctic North America, Tierra de la Fuego, Amazonia, Gran Chaco, Circum-Caribbean, coastal and highland Andes, among many others....

If Tolkien were alive today, he might portray the Black Numenoreans, Haradrim, and Easterlings in a more nuanced matter. I mean PJ's movie intentionally dehumanized these ethnic groups due to the post-911 climate in America...gave them masks to conceal their faces.....

There are a few glimmerings of Non-British/Scandinavian-Based Fantasy out there. I mentioned Barry Hughart's minor masterpiece "Bridge of Birds" already, C. J. Cherryh in "Evgeny" used Russian pagan folklore as a setting for a fantasy novel, with an intriguing exploration of the Real Problems with learning to be a wizard - when making a mistake can not only hurt you, it could wipe out most of the country!
Guy Gabriel Kay wrote two fantasy novels set in fantasy versions of Tang and Song Dynasty China that are superb. In fact, "Under Heaven" is a fine example of how gritty and bloody history can be combined with fantasy and even bloody-minded politics without one overwhelming the other (Yes, it is a good alternative to Game of Thrones for those turned off by Martin's 'Dark Side'). David Drake used Sumerian/Babylonian pre-Christian religion and folklore for a background to some fantasy stories: sorry I can't remember the series title off the top of my head. Stephen Brust used Hungarian folklore for his Jhereg novels, Bujold's "Paladin of Souls" used an amalgam of pagan southern/central European religions to background an intriguing concept: What's it like to be possessed by a God, to know there's really nothing you can do about it, and knowing at the same time that it's not the benevolent Father or Mother gods, it's the Trickster God so whatever he does, it's probably going to hurt. Orson Scott Card wove Native American lore and magic into his "Alvin Maker" fantasy series and the stories highlight the differences between the European and the 'New World' folklore and fantastic.

Im sure I've left a lot out, because as I mentioned earlier for a number of years I just quit reading fantasy in disgust, but I hope something in my very short list is of interest...

Now bring on some more Screenshots!!