Civ VII map graphics

Abaxial

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I confess not to having played Civ VII, so this is based on watching videos or looking at screen shots. I really have a problem with the way the map screen looks, which puts me off. When playing Civ VI, I look at the screen, and though it may be a bit cartoonish, it does look like an actual landscape with settlements and military formations moving about on it. Civ V even more so, since it benefits from cities not looking unrealistically large due to sprawling distraicts as they do in VI. But in Civ VII the screen looks to me like an overly-busy mess. It's very hard to read what is going on. I wonder if this is a common perception?
 
I confess not to having played Civ VII, so this is based on watching videos or looking at screen shots. I really have a problem with the way the map screen looks, which puts me off. When playing Civ VI, I look at the screen, and though it may be a bit cartoonish, it does look like an actual landscape with settlements and military formations moving about on it. Civ V even more so, since it benefits from cities not looking unrealistically large due to sprawling distraicts as they do in VI. But in Civ VII the screen looks to me like an overly-busy mess. It's very hard to read what is going on. I wonder if this is a common perception?

IMO, the biggest issue is the urban sprawl which covers the map with districts that are hard to differentiate and make the map look ugly. But the terrain itself looks very nice. I do like the realistic look of the terrain. If civ7 just got rid of the urban sprawl, I think the map would look great.
 
I confess not to having played Civ VII, so this is based on watching videos or looking at screen shots. I really have a problem with the way the map screen looks, which puts me off. When playing Civ VI, I look at the screen, and though it may be a bit cartoonish, it does look like an actual landscape with settlements and military formations moving about on it. Civ V even more so, since it benefits from cities not looking unrealistically large due to sprawling distraicts as they do in VI. But in Civ VII the screen looks to me like an overly-busy mess. It's very hard to read what is going on. I wonder if this is a common perception?
That's the second main reason I'm not touching this (right after mandatory civ switching). Graphics are good (landscape, buildings) but that urban sprawl is awful. Literally ugly to look at. Right now I play Vox Populi once more and one tile cities are truly great.
 
I've struggled to get on board with unpacked cities and I think it's one of the main things that put me off Civ VI. The UI and design of that game at least made the larger cities interpretable in that game, but I feel like expanding your cities out with districts diminished the impact of geography. I haven't quite put my finger on what it is about Civ VI that's runs me the wrong way, but I know that the fun stops happening for me around the time I unlock districts

Civ VII definitely ramps up the problems with it.
 
The biggest issue is not being able to identify buildings at a glance. The graphics are beautiful but don't serve the purpose of standing out on the map as well as districts did in Civ6. Even just putting accent colours themed on what type of building (economic, science etc...) would be a huge help!
This. The map succeeds as a beautiful graphic, but fails as part of the GUI in that it does not, at a glance, show you exactly what is in the tile.

I think the biggest part of this is not the individual buildings and structures (which are always going to be a problem given the variety of regional and Civ specific building types unless you simply color-code them) but the difficulty of telling apart Urban and Rural tiles. Maybe it's my tired old eyes, but they simply do not look distinct enough to me: clay pits, mines, etc look as built up and busy as any urban tile, and so the settlement/city seems to spread over the entire map.

I've struggled to get on board with unpacked cities and I think it's one of the main things that put me off Civ VI. The UI and design of that game at least made the larger cities interpretable in that game, but I feel like expanding your cities out with districts diminished the impact of geography.
I would argue just the opposite: the sprawling cities make geography even more important as you attempt to mine the 'adjacencies' that will best buff up your districts. This is the primary reason I argued back in Civ VI times against the adjacencies, which result in both sprawling cities and utterly unrealistic constructs (for starters, can anybody explain why a Mountain gives a bonus to a University, which would come as a great surprise to most of the early universities like Oxford, Cambridge, the Sorbonne, et al, none of which were built anywhere near a mountain).

I am not against multi-tiled cities as such - they potentially allow much more of the city effects to be shown on the map instead of buried in some secondary display - but neither Civ VI nor Civ VII does them very well.

But to make them work well will, IMHO, take more than just making the building graphics more clear and rectifying the adjacencies. For a start, Resources have to become moveable as much as possible. You cannot realistically move minerals, but a Rutabaga or any other animal or plant-based resource should not stop you from building over it, and either moving it or removing it as desired. No domesticated animal I know of is so particular that it demands a pasture on Tile A rather than the tile next to it, and if we want to make resources terrain specific those tiles are generally repeated in the basic biome your Civ starts in.

Having made Resources no longer an obstacle, we can then mandate that Antiquity Age cities can only put Urban tiles adjacent to the Center: everything beyond that will be Rural. In Exploration Age that can become adjacent to the Center or adjacent to a tile adjacent to the center. Only in Modern Age can you sprawl a city across the map, potentially building connected urban megalopolises of 10s of millions of inhabitants.

Keeping urban tiles 'tighter' both makes them more distinct from rural tiles and also brings in-game 'urban planning' more in line with Reality: the limitations of transportation technology that applied from 4000 BCE until the late 18th century CE (by happy coincidence, the beginning of the game's Modern Age) put a major brake on how big a city could be on the landscape and still function as a city.

Note that it also allows some very neat Civ Uniques like a city using water-based transportation to spread beyond the normal limits, such as Tenochtlan of the Aztecs in (late) Exploration Age, or pozzolana-based Roman concrete which allowed Romans to build their commercial and residential structures up over 2 - 3 stories to pack greater density into their cities.

Properly designed, a game mechanic that allows multiple-tiled cities should enhance the gaming experience, not make it harder to accurately read the map and plan viable cities/settlements.
 
But to make them work well will, IMHO, take more than just making the building graphics more clear and rectifying the adjacencies. For a start, Resources have to become moveable as much as possible. You cannot realistically move minerals, but a Rutabaga or any other animal or plant-based resource should not stop you from building over it, and either moving it or removing it as desired. No domesticated animal I know of is so particular that it demands a pasture on Tile A rather than the tile next to it, and if we want to make resources terrain specific those tiles are generally repeated in the basic biome your Civ starts in.

Having made Resources no longer an obstacle, we can then mandate that Antiquity Age cities can only put Urban tiles adjacent to the Center: everything beyond that will be Rural. In Exploration Age that can become adjacent to the Center or adjacent to a tile adjacent to the center. Only in Modern Age can you sprawl a city across the map, potentially building connected urban megalopolises of 10s of millions of inhabitants.
Commenting on what you said first: IMO rural tiles are actually quite distinguishable already (much more so than urban districts). And IMO they look really neat and don't "disturb" the good looking world map so much. The real problem for me are quarters...I always have to mouse over them since it's so hard to see what something is, looking at the map.

But on your other point here: That would actually make some neat "quest" (or event) narratives: Maybe upon finding some sheep or wild animals, you could get a quest to build a first pasture around them. Finishing that quest would then enable you to build pastures anywhere.
Of course, animals are bonus resources (and quite good ones), but enabling rural areas via such questing might be neat anyway.
 
Commenting on what you said first: IMO rural tiles are actually quite distinguishable already (much more so than urban districts). And IMO they look really neat and don't "disturb" the good looking world map so much. The real problem for me are quarters...I always have to mouse over them since it's so hard to see what something is, looking at the map.

But on your other point here: That would actually make some neat "quest" (or event) narratives: Maybe upon finding some sheep or wild animals, you could get a quest to build a first pasture around them. Finishing that quest would then enable you to build pastures anywhere.
Of course, animals are bonus resources (and quite good ones), but enabling rural areas via such questing might be neat anyway.
I think the 'easy solution' to the Urban Quarter/building problem might be simply to color-code the roofs of the buildings:
Food - green
Production - gray
Gold - yellow
Science - dark blue
Culture - pink
Happiness - light blue
Military - red
Unique - purple
Ageless/Warehouse - a black trim around the appropriate color

Not perfect, but you could tell at a glance at least what type of buildings are in a given tile/Quarter

I've been thinking about a way to 'specify' how Civs develop their tiles/land: some way to show that Civ Z that starts in a desert area and therefore supposedly has been in that area wandering about practicing their nomadery for some years, should know something about exploiting desert terrain.

So, as a thought experiment, how about Agriculture Masteries?

After you start the game and see your starting position, everybody starts with a 'given' first tech of Agriculture (Civ has always assumed that no city could be sustained without Agriculture, which is arguable but at least consistent)
So let's add Masteries to Agriculture based on the specific terrain he Civ is exploiting.
Examples:

Agricultural Masteries:
Flooding the Fields (representing primitive irrigation systems)
+1 Food to all worked Desert or Plains Tiles that are Wet or next to a Wet tile or a river or lake tile
Fire on the Land (using set fires to burn of or clear large tracts of land)
Can convert Vegetated tile to non-vegetated
Managing the Forest (several skills, including coppicing, clearing underbrush with fire, etc)
+1 Production to any worked vegetated tile

These won't address the major currencies in the game: Culture, Science, Influence and Gold, but they should allow a Civ in marginal starting terrain for the basics to start by researching a basic Tech to get a little more out of their starting position.

Animal Husbandry and pastures and such I don't think need boosting. For one thing, it's harder to do in a simple manner: many early domestic animals were not corraled or 'pastured' at all, but allowed to roam and graze freely and only rounded up for slaughter or movement to new grazing areas, so 'pasture' in fhe game is something of an artificial feature in the first place,. Also, in Civ VII's tech tree Animal Husbandry is a much less important tech for the city sustainment compared to, say, its importance for Defense (providing the first Ranged Units)
 
They should unpack it a bit less. Maybe you could only put urban sprawl in the first 6 adjacent tiles, and in those tiles you could put maybe 4 buildings. For a max of 24 buildings per city.

Then maybe you have to replace buildings or with an added cost you can expand the urban sprawl beyond direct adjacency.
 
I wouldn‘t like color coding buildings. That would look awful on many of them. How about color coding the hex borders with two ribbons if necessary? This could be a toggle when you play with grid. If it is too subtle, you could shade the hex in two colors with a hotkey overlay.

for me personally, I can distinguish most buildings easily. At least the most important ones. Well, maybe half of the buildings in the game. My preferred solution would be a strategic mode as in civ VI.
 
Something like master of orion 2 where you had some mutually exclusive options for each tech you researched? So you pick a terrain to be "expert" in?
You could try to 'master' more than one, but each additional mastery would cost double in Tech and you couldn't even start unless you had the terrain/tile prerequisites. For instance, if you don't have any Plains or Desert tiles next to a river, you cannot even start figuring out the Flooding the Fields mastery.

I think they should be largely exclusive, but as you expand into different biomes, you should have a chance to add to your skill-set: for a price.
 
I wouldn‘t like color coding buildings. That would look awful on many of them. How about color coding the hex borders with two ribbons if necessary? This could be a toggle when you play with grid. If it is too subtle, you could shade the hex in two colors with a hotkey overlay.

for me personally, I can distinguish most buildings easily. At least the most important ones. Well, maybe half of the buildings in the game. My preferred solution would be a strategic mode as in civ VI.
I didn't mean to imply a solid mass of color: I agree that would look ghastly. But elements of the building could be picked out in the requisite color, like roof trim or pediments or capitals on columns.

The real problem I can see once I thought about it is the problem of gamers with color perception issues. Color-coding for them would be just another source of frustration.
 
You could try to 'master' more than one, but each additional mastery would cost double in Tech and you couldn't even start unless you had the terrain/tile prerequisites. For instance, if you don't have any Plains or Desert tiles next to a river, you cannot even start figuring out the Flooding the Fields mastery.

I think they should be largely exclusive, but as you expand into different biomes, you should have a chance to add to your skill-set: for a price.
It also steps on the toes of civs like Russia which are intended to be terrain specific.

I wouldn‘t like color coding buildings. That would look awful on many of them. How about color coding the hex borders with two ribbons if necessary? This could be a toggle when you play with grid. If it is too subtle, you could shade the hex in two colors with a hotkey overlay.

for me personally, I can distinguish most buildings easily. At least the most important ones. Well, maybe half of the buildings in the game. My preferred solution would be a strategic mode as in civ VI.
Colour coding hexes as a lens would be fine as long as it can also be up when placing buildings... I'm very envious if you can read your buildings!
 
I know the devs like the added strategy of placing buildings on the map. So I think unpacked cities are here to stay. But we see with army commanders that the devs found a way to address some the issues with 1upt while preserving the core idea. Likewise, I hope the devs will consider ways to reduce urban sprawl while keeping the core idea of placing buildings on the map. I think raising the limit to 3 buildings per urban district would do this. Players could still spread out 1 building per district if they wanted to, but it would give players would don't like urban sprawl the ability to pack more buildings per district to reduce sprawl. The only big negative I see is that the devs would likely need to redo the graphics of districts to allow for 3 buildings to be represented per district. Also, I think they would need to increase the science legacy path in exploration age to say 50 or 60 yield, to accomodate the fact that you can put more yields in a single district.
 
It also steps on the toes of civs like Russia which are intended to be terrain specific.
Ah, but Russia is a Modern Age Civ (so far!) and by that time the technology and skills necessarily to exploit the maximum out of any terrain should be generally available.

This could hold for any terrain-specific Civs from later Ages: they can start with the 'tech' to get the most out of their starting terrain as programmed. IF they start on other terrain - as, perhaps, by progressing from an earlier Civ with an entirely different terrain preference - then I suggest that they have to research the required tech. After all, the Europeans when they arrived in North America didn't even recognize the rather sophisticated native techniques of managing the forest with controlled fires: they simply used their own technologies relying on imported oxen and horses and clear-cutting the forest to make room for open-field farms - and that was a combination of techniques that had been perfected over the previous 1000 years.
 
I don't really miss the colour-coding, I think it looked goofy in Civ 6. I actually like the way the cities look now, and the building art is differentiated enough if you learn what to look for. For the rest there is tooltips.

Urban sprawl is an issue, and isn't helped by the fact that even rural imrpovements look quite built-up. But I think the game map looks a ton better than Civ 6.
 
Urban sprawl is an issue, and isn't helped by the fact that even rural imrpovements look quite built-up. But I think the game map looks a ton better than Civ 6.
Agreed - urban sprawl is a big issue. I'd like to see either Firaxis or some modders tinker with the city radius - maybe you can only place buildings districts up to two tiles from the city center but can place rural improvements (which should be scaled down) up to 5. This would also help the terrain gaps on larger maps that result from the artificially low settlement limit.
 
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