Civ VII - Predictions for features

[HorseshoeHermit]

As far as I understood you here, you basically suggesting a Subsystem that interacts directly with each Player seperatly, that doesn't require any envolvement from other Players. Maybe Something like Events where you have to make decisions that can give Bonuses as well as having real consequences, and based on the options they might be strong but for short term, and weak but for long term?

Not like that, no. Quite the opposite. What I was thinking was definitely -with- interaction from other players, just, again, something not mediated by their vast fortune of assets built up by the other systems. I imagined at least that these choices would happen at the same time; they either involve outmaneuvering the opponent's choices inside that field, or at least you have to choose something smart with some kind of exclusivity rule in place.

It could be a non-interactive thing, as just a choice you make to buttress your situation. That would still have a latent impact from other players of course, inasmuch as your situation you're creating is affected by the other players and whole game. I don't think a Random Events system is an example because Random Events are sparse and also... the magnitude is wrong. It would also be wrong if it were multipliers; the benefit coming out of these continual decisions has to be constant with respect to how the players are doing.

Actually, exactly how Random Events aren't a suitable device is worth getting into a bit. Random Events in Humankind partly make up the Civics system. So they are a stream of things that produce an effect in its own silo and it does indeed add up to something unbounded in magnitude and relevance. But the opportunities that make it up, the parts where you cause that to happen, aren't coming in at the right tempo to be the snowball counter leveler. A Random Event like Vox's Decisions system and the traditional way, could be the right scope, making choices like universal productivity boosts or a golden age, picking the right thing, yes it would help. Yet I feel like the flavor is a mismatch, the way the Events are just a bunch of things in some bag like that. If you take the fact that those kind of Random Events are of course not on a script that's the same for everyone, it's a RNG (I mean the decision presented to you is picked "Randomly" so your opportunity is random), which is not the kind of equalizer I imagined. If Random Events were normalized so everyone got them the same way, there would clearly be pushback from that just not seeming right for the fluff that it has. And it's still doing its thing more as a ball of randomness than as a leveling field (e.g., the right kind of decision could matter a lot to one player and not be relevant to someone else's situation).

The decisions might be every turn/2 turns, or maybe stretched out, but they have to come in on their own schedule. Another system deciding when you get a shot at it is not meeting the definition.

So yeah, Random Events meets one criterion, but its flavor pulls against the want for nonrandomness. You need something that's not such high variance. Also, the point with Humankind's civics, any system at all you put in the game, all the systems, are an example of how decisions can let you get ahead, the thing was it has to give you something that's just as useable no matter where you are, but the choice has to be made smartly. The idea of a system just being a whole thing that gets built over time, that meets another criterion, but then the puzzle to the designer is interacting additively with player standing instead of snowballing still AND also making it so the decisions are critical and skilltesting. The Civics system is, again for flavor reasons, not the right one to have for that. We flavor "major/simulation" systems to interact with the other systems, and even more so Civics has partly a roleplaying job to perform so the choices are branching paths instead of critical tests.

Between the two honestly a system mostly like Random Events would do the job. A constant stream of 'Decisions' and you get a boost from it, just... how would you pick the repertoire of decisions? and not make it sickening to see during gameplay.

That's, above, all why I figured it would be something with interaction with the other players during the choice.

 

[Phrozen]

Having alcohol making be one of the main basis for settling down like many archaeologists think it was. Very hard to make beer and wine on the go.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Having alcohol making be one of the main basis for settling down like many archaeologists think it was. Very hard to make beer and wine on the go.

Started decades ago with the Blinding Flash of the Obvious that fermenting grain into a primitive beer is a lot less complicated than making it into flour, turning the flour into dough, and baking it into bread of some kind.

However, animal products like milk can also be fermented into kumiss (foul stuff, but alcoholic) and berries can be picked and fermented on the move also, so agriculture might be a source of More Alcohol, but doesn't track as a primary or original source of alcohol.

Agriculture potentially could add alcohol as a Trade Good, though. The Wine Grape appears to have originated in the Caucasus, and the Shulaveri-Shimu Neolithic Culture (roughly, 6000 - 3500 BCE in the modern areas of Georgia and Armenia) started cultivating the grapes almost as soon as they started cultivating anything. By their late period (4100 BCE +) there is archeological evidence of wine presses and wine production tools, meaning that they were producing wine on a (Neolithic) industrial scale, for trade/export.

Another argument, by the way, for a much 'busier' Neolithic Start than Humankind provides . . .

 

[Zaarin]

Another argument, by the way, for a much 'busier' Neolithic Start than Humankind provides . . .

Yes, I love the concept, but HK's Neolithic is a little boring--and it shouldn't be. Also settling down in the Neolithic should be an option. Cities like Jericho and Beirut were booming in the Neolithic.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Yes, I love the concept, but HK's Neolithic is a little boring--and it shouldn't be. Also settling down in the Neolithic should be an option. Cities like Jericho and Beirut were booming in the Neolithic.

- and cities like Catal Huyok and the Cucuteni cities disappeared completely: Neolithic city-building should be a real Gamble, but possible if you want to take your chances and try 'jump-starting' your Civ . . .

 

[Haig]

The new Firaxis CEO said that they will "take Civilization to new heights"

Is this confirmation for map having different altitudes?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The new Firaxis CEO said that they will "take Civilization to new heights"

Is this confirmation for map having different altitudes?

It means that all the civilizations in the base game will be from either high altitude or high latitude terrain:
Swiss
Inca
Tibetan
Nepalese
Inuit
Norse
Finns
Mongols
Armenian
Georgian
Canadian
etc.

 

[pineappledan]

I would be surprised if a Health mechanic doesn't show up. It just seems so topical now, like how climate change was the big thing people were worried about in the 2010s. It's the easiest way I can think of to make civ 7 feel relevant. Could tie it into the trade system, so as the game progresses and roads/railroads move things faster, cities and civs become more interconnected and health effects spread faster between them too.

I would also half expect a re-jigging of the Era timings, with the Future Era starting at 2000 CE, partially covering recent technological advances in Genetics, renewables, AI, robotics, VR, and of course, medicine. The most recent game basically made no sense re: the last few eras.

 

[AffineConstant]

So this is not a wishlist, but rather what direction you think the franchise will take on seventh title.
My take:

- Back to more realistic graphics. One of the two biggest gripes I've seen for Civ VI has been for it's stylized and more cartoon-like art style, reminding of Civ IV and CivRev. Personally I have nothing against it and I love the expressive leaders and units, but I bet they tune it down for Civ 7.

- No more one unit per tile. The combat AI is the second biggest gripe I've seen, easiest solution is simply going back to stacks in some form I bet.

- Tactical combat screen like Age of Wonders/Humankind etc.
Interestingly I remember Ed Beach interview where combat screen was an option for Civ VI but they didnt go for it. I 100% belive we get stacks for units, for combat screen I'm like 50%.

- Maps with more topography. I think this is a logical step for Civ VII.

- Navigable rivers. This one has been in so many fan requests, like canals used to be, that I think they introduce them for Civ 7


There will probably be something big that will be first time introduce to the series but for what my imagination doesn't tell me!

Civ V didn't necessarily have "more realistic" graphics, just an actual art direction that was trying to accomplish something other than pure functionality. I do agree it's just plain better looking that VI, and I checked by playing a game of it last week.

One unit per tile isn't going away, but good AI is the biggest ask the entire Civ community has. And stacking isn't a solution for good AI at all, only good AI is.

Navigable rivers makes a lot of sense historically, the first sailing tech should make river tiles as fast to travel in as planes tiles, regardless of whether they're hills/forests. They should also extend the range of trading caravans, trading has always taken place vastly more on rivers/bodies of water than across land, just because it's easier so long as you can make a boat.

Really, with rivers I'd love to see deserts become "hard to move in" terrain. To this day deserts are hazardous to equipment and more difficult to move along than some nice grassy plane, same with historical stuff. Plus then you could make promotions and unique units move along desserts at fulls peed.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Really, with rivers I'd love to see deserts become "hard to move in" terrain. To this day deserts are hazardous to equipment and more difficult to move along than some nice grassy plane, same with historical stuff. Plus then you could make promotions and unique units move along desserts at fulls peed.

Deserts, Tundra, Rain Forest/Jungle should all be very difficult for regular units to move through and could even impose penalties to the unit strength for staying in them too long. Whole armies died of being in deserts, tundra/ice or jungles that they weren't prepared for.
Not only UUs and specially promoted units could by-pass this, but Recon Line (scouts) units could also be immune, considering that they represent much smaller units of people more accustomed to moving far and fast and on their own. That would help keep those units relevant for much more of the game. Hired Barbarians could be another source of Units that can move through Dangerous Ground without penalty if they come from a Barbarian Tribe that is familiar with the terrain in question.

 

[Chekko]

A new way with building your Civ. Instead of the Leader+Civ bonuses you get right away you start with a couple of very basic Civs that have their own playstyle, then you gain the ability every era or so to upgrade, then have a mechanic 'Traditions' that decides the strength of the bonuses you previously had chosen depending on the amount of Culture you have. Each playstyle Civ have their own way with gaining culture and how they upgrade. Then have Culture function almost like how Religion functions now. Always felt Culture was so weak and almost useless in Civ 6.

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

I think there is going to more categories of uniqueness to civs. Someplace for Gandhi to be in the game without making him a leader. civ 6 feels like its running out of ways to make civs and leaders different.

 

[pineappledan]

I think there is going to more categories of uniqueness to civs. Someplace for Gandhi to be in the game without making him a leader. civ 6 feels like its running out of ways to make civs and leaders different.

Considering the Zulu have basically had the same kit for 3 games straight, it doesn't seem to bother the designers that much to have some civs be consistent between games.

 

[Haig]

By the way, all note that this thread is not for what features you wish VII has, but what you think/predict it will have..

One thing that looks likely is from an interview with Ed Beach in late 2022/early 2023:

He said that the leader/civ unique abilities became too long and hard to remember and they should be more to the point (I dont remember exact words)

I think more simpler but powerful abilities are good idea.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

By the way, all note that this thread is not for what features you wish VII has, but what you think/predict it will have..

One thing that looks likely is from an interview with Ed Beach in late 2022/early 2023:

He said that the leader/civ unique abilities became too long and hard to remember and they should be more to the point (I dont remember exact words)

I think more simpler but powerful abilities are good idea.

I mentioned this before, but I think it would be interesting if each leader had a choice between an ability or a UU, or unique infrastructure. More militaristic leaders can easily have their own UU while leaders known for building, infrastructure can have their own buildings/improvements etc.

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

By the way, all note that this thread is not for what features you wish VII has, but what you think/predict it will have..

One thing that looks likely is from an interview with Ed Beach in late 2022/early 2023:

He said that the leader/civ unique abilities became too long and hard to remember and they should be more to the point (I dont remember exact words)

I think more simpler but powerful abilities are good idea.

I predict they will have simple and strong abilities, long and hard to remember abilities, and everything in between. They're there going to try to have at least one civ that fits for everyone who buys the game.

 

[pineappledan]

Maybe not a prediction, but a hope, but I would like to think civ 7 will cut down on the combat animations. Some of them are just excessive, and they all go on too long. I ended up turning off all animations within an hour of my first game.

 

[Krajzen]

By the way, all note that this thread is not for what features you wish VII has, but what you think/predict it will have..

One thing that looks likely is from an interview with Ed Beach in late 2022/early 2023:

He said that the leader/civ unique abilities became too long and hard to remember and they should be more to the point (I dont remember exact words)

I think more simpler but powerful abilities are good idea.

I also vaguely remember them referring to
1) The endgame (second half of the game?) being much less fun that the first, partiallly because of a) snowballing inevitable victory inertia and b) way too much meaningless micromanagement. I may even recall some reflection on how district system, for all its merits and glory in the earlier eras, vastly worsens this problem in later eras?
2) Diplomacy still feeling somewhat off, artificial and static, without the feeling of actually playing a sort of diplomatic game with various other agents, negotiating, outplaying each other etc

Could somebody confirm this? My memoties if those interviews are kinda clouded. Maybe there was a word about religion as well.

Anyway, all those three self reflections are very welcome directions imo. I think we may expect
- a radical revamp of diplomacy (God please)
- civ abilities being halfway between civ5 'unique and concise but way too narrow and one dimensional' and civ6 'broad and complex but very bloated'
- the attempt to improve lategame/micromanagement on some fundamental level of the way map and yields work (God please, this one of the one ways I can imagine improvement here, civ6 approaches of slapping more mechanics on top of city/yield exponential inflation didn't work at all)

If only they expressed some criticism of 1UPT system then I could sleep as an optimist, now I am worrying they'd implement those changes mentioned above yet left dreaded 1upt in place or, God forbid, returned to stacking, instead of something new.