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Civ2 Source Code Petition

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario Creation' started by yaroslav, May 22, 2004.

  1. Banach

    Banach Warlord

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    Simplistic question here. With all of the work of Sampson and everyone else about the underground mathematics of CIV II, and the ability to mimic the graphics, and the massive programming skills I'm sure exist out there, why is the source code necessary? Why can't people just gather together and start collaborating on the code? Heck, they could collaborate on here, right? I mean, some software people could start putting together a skeleton and define objects and have people work on separate parts like graphics, events, etc. Or would that be treading on some copyright issues? Or would it just be like way too much work? Forgive me if I'm naive, I have VERY limited coding experience. I think you could easily fix some of the problems with Civ II along the way, or at least make the code more robust. Eh, now that I think about it, maybe that is a ton of work.
     
  2. Morten Blaabjerg

    Morten Blaabjerg Settler

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    You already have something along those lines : http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

    What's so good about Civilization II (and which FreeCiv or any other clone can't reproduce) is probably that it was a moment in history. It was popular in those early defining years of the internet and already has a ton of great scenarios built for it. A "new" game would be great, but it's very hard to capture the magic, "feel" and widespread appeal Civ II had. If the source was released, it might (and I am pretty sure it would) grow a new life of it's own, which could help revive parts of the community surrounding the game, improve the scenarios made for it and lots more. If the source is not found and released, the game is heading for the dustbin of history like so many other great classic games.
     
  3. McMonkey

    McMonkey ----Evertonian---- SLeague Staff

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    I think you have hit the nail on the head with your "Moment in time" point Morten. For me Civ II looks, sounds and feels very familiar after all these years and that is part of its charm, anything else is just not the same for me.

    There is FreeCiv and CivEvo out there which are open source civ clones which the creators can modify as they see fit. Anyone interested in contributing should track them down.

    The CivII source code is definitely lost and CivII will gradually fade into history, but there is currently still a very small but dedicated group of designers and enthusiasts, both here, at Apolyton and such places as the German and Spanish Civ sites, that will keep the memory of this fabulous game going for a little while longer. I know I am not ready to abandon it just yet :)
     
  4. Banach

    Banach Warlord

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    I totally get your point. There are many games that are so incredibly valuable for Nostalgia reasons. So many old computer or Nintendo games that remind me of certain parts of my childhood. I'm thinking of old classics like Prince of Persia, Wasteland, and Legend of the Red Dragon (if anyone remembers or played that old BBS game), to name a few. Civ II is a great game.
     
  5. yoshi

    yoshi Emperor

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    I get nostalgic about the good old days when I was happy as a clam playing Civ1--watching the little Phalanx completely destroy a modern Battleship and come out of it without a scratch. Ah, the days before health bars.

    I don't play Civ2 much because well, to be honest I was never all that obsessed with it as a game (the Civ1 buzz had already worn off). What got me hooked was the modding (i.e. scenario design).

    And considering I'm still in the process of working on a total conversion of it, I'd say it isn't nostalgia that keeps me here but actual interest in a product that's so easy to work with (minus the AI...ugh), relatively speaking; working with Civ2's simple events/rules is orders of magnitude easier than working with Python/XML in Civ4.

    Civ3 is nice but quite limited (namely due it's lack of player scripting; i.e. events). Nevertheless I'm working on a similar epic conversion for that as well (for similar reasons). Should be quite good when it comes out...which should be about the same time Civ7 hits store shelves. ;) )


    As for FreeCiv: nice effort but not particularly impressive as it presently is. Lacks moddability (it is itself still an unfinished project).

    If it's just the vanilla game you're interested in, then there really isn't much of a reason to play Civ2 (nostalgia aside).

    Your rig should be good enough by now to play Civ3, which is basically just a better Civ2 with some minor controversial changes. If you have a higher-end rig, you might as well skip Civ3 altogether and go straight into Civ4. Just be warned: you may need to take a programming course and quit your job in order to make a scenario for it (i.e. beyond just editing maps and a few unit stats).

    Right now, I'm in my Civ2 mode so I'll pop in here now and then and work on the Civ2 stuff until I get tired of it--something that happens fairly quickly whenever I try working with the AI.
     
  6. luke2345

    luke2345 Warlord

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    me to
     
  7. Souron

    Souron The Dark Lord

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    This is quite dead. Mainly because nobody knows where a copy of the source still exists.
     
  8. Palaiologos2

    Palaiologos2 Prince

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    But they did release Civ Chronicles a while ago didn't they?
    I am no programmer but you have to have the code to make Civ Chronicles compatible with Vista or any other newer operational system, right?
    And what about the Test of time source code?
     
  9. Catfish

    Catfish Emperor

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    Comments in the Technical Support forum suggest that they bundled unpatched versions of MGE and ToT with Chronicles.
     
  10. clightning

    clightning Warlord

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    Excuse me for dig this, but how is it going on? still needs e-mails?
     
  11. Catfish

    Catfish Emperor

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    Dig into the last two pages of this thread and you should get your answer.
     
  12. clightning

    clightning Warlord

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    Oh I see they claim they've lost it...what a comfort excuse:sad:

    However, there are some patches for Command&Conquer games to expand the origin game limit, and there is someone has made a patch for TOT to make it "Stackable" without the fotress trick.
    Can some smart people make some "patch" to modify/expand the program without getting the source code?
     
  13. Hans99

    Hans99 Warlord

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    Search for CIV Unlimited patch, must be somewhere on this forum...
     
  14. clightning

    clightning Warlord

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    Thank you for the info Hans, this is a useful patch, though not yet many other needs are met in it.
     
  15. clightning

    clightning Warlord

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    Just hope there is some patch or software to change the hardcoded factors, for example the pikemen or AEGIS defence bonus, or give a "Turn On/Off" for Stackable terrain, or those feathures that you the more experienced CIV2Modders may have discussed a million times...
     
  16. Hans99

    Hans99 Warlord

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    Get "Hex Rays IDA" and start reverse engineering ;)
     
  17. Starke Von Oben

    Starke Von Oben Chieftain

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    Does anyone have faith that, one day, the source code will be rediscovered?

    Many presumed long lost silent films of the 1920s have been rediscovered, often in the most strange locations (people's sheds oddly enough).
     
  18. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Not to necrobump but I thought the people involved in this thread would be the most likely to have this information, and since this is in the same vein I thought it would be most appropriate to write here. I hope this transgression doesn't get this thread locked in case one day there is more to report on the source code.

    The source code is lost, apparently, but ToTPP along with lua has allowed us to completely reinvent the game, regardless. If this is news to you, go check out threads for Over the Reich or Napoleon in the scenario league forum, or the many threads teaching lua that Prof. Garfield has started in the general forum.

    Now, the problem is not unlocking the potential, but sharing it with others. Copies of this game are few and far between.

    Does anyone involved here still have contacts, names, numbers of people I could try to reach out to to seek permission to distribute this game? I "think" it is abandonware, and if so, it would be easy enough to simply send the files to friends, but it would be good to get something in writing from the actual rights owner advising that it is OK to distribute (or perhaps they would like to continue to sell the download link themselves). I can't see how either option would possibly hurt their company and frankly I think both would help them sell more copies of Civ6 and other titles as well.

    Anyone have a hint for where I could start? I don't even know if the companies mentioned here still retain the rights? Anyone been following along?

    Thanks,
     
  19. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Scenario League Member

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    I did a fair amount of work on this JPetroski and I'm certain this is Abandonware. It's admirable that you want to share this with any potential license holders, but I'll be very frank with you:

    1. If you offer this up to a company that may have had some claim to it in the past that company WILL claim it and deny you the ability to distribute it. They may throw a boilerplate cease and desist letter to you and voila, all your hard work will be gone behind legal spaghetti.

    2. You can't resell this new version without putting yourself at risk so all distribution will need to be free.

    3. No company will use your work and distribute it outright. There are way to many legal problems with doing that.

    I would take a page from the book of Openttd and see how they've approached this type of issue before. However I believe they did a complete rewrite.

    Good luck.
     
  20. JPetroski

    JPetroski Emperor

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    Hi Harry, thanks for the response.

    I just want to clarify a few things:

    1. I don't want to sell this - I just don't care if the license holder goes that route.
    2. I don't want them to distribute the new ToTPP, I just want them to continue distributing the actual 100% vanilla Civ2: Test of Time, or tell us to go have a ball with putting it in the downloads section

    I would be perfectly fine with a Steam download that requires one to purchase the game from the license holder. My only reason for wanting this is because when people ask where to get a copy of the game, I can only tell them "eBay" and that will only last for so long. I've spent the past few years developing a scenario I think some of my friends from the flight sim world would really enjoy but of course I have no easy way to get them a copy of the game to actually play it.

    Part of the reason for asking about it is because @Prof. Garfield has suggested building an entirely new game/complete rewrite, but a huge reason for that is the distribution issue and if the license holder would just continue to profit off it or simply agree that it can be freely distributed, then that would cut out at least half the reason for undertaking such a massive project.
     

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