Civ3 Expansion Pack Announced!

[Selous]

Originally posted by whb


Now there's someone who's busting for a fight! You and me, one on one. When that expansion pack comes out, we'll see which of us is getting culturally assimilated. My Aussie culture's gonna knock seven shades of poo out of your Seppos. And when the your cities culture-flip to my empire, I'll give 'em to the Russians just to irritate you...



whb

u know what i think? i think he is busting for a fight ... to say how great his country is while telling others how insignifigant they are AND how insignifigant we will be in the future ... dems fighting words where i live

anywho ... i am hoping that the 16 civ limit will be lifted to 24!! ... arrrhhhh ... droooolll ... but i bet not
personally ... i am thinking that it will be a rip off and a slap in the face unless some major game dynamic changes are made

and im thinking that a senerio editor would be a given? but then most of us had that as a given with the original (i am actually hoping that that isnt in the expantion, as they are going to put it in a future patch ) and to impliment MP there are going to have to be MAJOR changes to almost every screen, and with this turnless part .... this is going to change radically how the game will work (hopefully we wont need to have broudband to play ) ... and again personally, i cant see why they didnt just make it similtanious turns, a turnless system pretty much rules out hotseat play, and what would the difference be between real time and turnless??

 

[DelinquentRock]

One other thing I forgot to mention Persia was one of the biggest Muslim Empires on earth they held lands from Iraq to the Indus River, and they where Shiite which kind of mad them the out cast among Muslims. And whereas Turkey was falling apart as early as the late 19th century it would still be another 80 something years before nationalism finally pulled Persia apart. Granted the game is speaking of ancient Persia and I am talking about Medieval Persia, but still all it takes is changing the city names in the editor to fix that (the reason there is no need to change the emperors name is because the rulers of Persia felt they where the heirs to the ancient Persia Empire hence the reason for all the Turko-Persian conflicts). I do agree that the Turks need to be on the game too but they are an Arabic people not Mediterranean. In fact they where a nomadic tribe witch was granted land (in Asia Minor) when Islam was still a united nation (under the rightly guided caliphs).

 

[God]

Originally posted by Craterus22

I won't be holding my breath for this expansion. Nor will I shell out the bucks for the expansion when I can spend my gaming dollars elsewhere...

Like what I said. I rather get games which come with MP and have ways to edit games better and make scenarios or campaigns, like Neverwinter Nights.

I was expecting them to release this for free via downloading. Definetely atleast scenario editor and MP, maybe not the other civs or already made scenarios.

 

[DelinquentRock]

(Unrelated question) I want to know why America (the Civilization) is put down as American (the race). I mean most Americans are of European decent and should they not be European? There architecture should resemble that of Europa not Native American. In fact much of out Political architecture resembles that of The Roman Empire or Greece (this was intentional to signify our links to their political ideals). So when building palaces or looking at cities they should not look Native American but Mediterranean or European. Just a little side note I thought I would throw out there.

 

[A Black Falcon]

This sounds good... if it adds what Civ 3 is missing, like the removed civilizations (the Mongols were my favorite civ in Civ 2, and the Vikings were one of my other favorites... ), scenarios (the biggest thing the game desperately needs... until Civ 3 has scenarios, Civ 2 will still be, in some ways, the better game... that, along with multiplayer, which is coming, is what I want. As long as the Mongols are added, Scenarios are enabled just like they were in Civ 2 (or better), and multiplayer that is good (as in they solve the problem of turn based multi being really slow paced, which realtime might, once they explain it), I'll be happy. My only complaint? Multiplayer should have been included, not in a add on... oh well.

 

[LaRo]

Originally posted by Akka
...

I'm amazed to see how many people jump in joy at the idea to pay an expansion to get things that should have been in the game from the start.

I guess that I can't hold any grudge to people of the marketting department, as long as there will be such a big amount of people that get ripped off with a smile and a "thanks !".

They know we are crazy about the game. Cash rules the world.

MP is why I bought Civ3. Ai sucks!

Can't hardly wait!

 

[Octavian X]

I'd really like the MP feature (If feels much better to know I am kicking an actual persons @$$ ) But there's no way they'll make me pay monthly for that. I may still get it if the new civs are good.

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by CenturionV
......it better have a scenarios editor or else

It better not only have scenario-building, but a Civ 2-style Cheat Mode.

And since we all spent the last five months acting as beta playtesters for Firaxis at $50 a pop, it had also better be free.

 

[rajofpsg]

Shoegaze99:

You discount Canada and Australia as civs since they haven't impacted the world or history enough as the other bigger modern nations, yet you think that Mexico and Brazil warrant to be included in as civs?

Canada alone has done more in science than both those countries combined. Played a MAJOR role in WWII (as did the Aussies over in the Pacific). Wasn't for Canada, the Brits wouldn't have been able to hold out as long as they did. Today, Canadian media (radio, music, art, television, movies, etc.) are among the worlds most watched and listened to. Half of hollywood is from Canada. Saw a show a year ago about the television and cable industry, said the most popular programs purchased by networks around the world fall in this order:
1) USA
2) Britain
3) Canada
4) Australia
5) France
6) Japan

Now, I don't think Canada or Australia should be a civ either. both are part of a larger culture (Anglo??), but, within that culture USA and Britain are the obvious heavyweights. Same with Mexico and Brazil, both are part of a larger latin culture. Mexico from Spain (thus Spain should be a civ), and Brazil from Portugal (thus portugal could be a civ, but too close to Spain, so Spain is the winner as being in as a civ).

I think new civs being will be more of the ancient type. Way too weird to have the Canadians around during 2500 BC (lol). Same reason why I think americans shouldn't be there either, and i never play them ingame. Mexico can be there in the form of the incans (or was it the mayans?)

My choices would be:

1)Incans
2)Moorish (in Spain)
3)Celts
4)Vikings for sure.
5)Mongols
6)Ethiopians (we need more Africans! I just don't know the names of other tribes, but should be like 3 African civs added)
7)Apaches, Algonquinns, Cheyenne (also need more tribes in america)
8) Khmer (cambodians), Laotians, Thais, Tibetans, Khirghiz, Turkmenistan, Khazakhs (asia needs it)
9) 2 Tribes in Australia.
10) Ottoman Empire!!

My question also is this:

We have 16 civs now to choose, and can play them all at the same time (i always do, and don't care how slow the game gets either, i luv it!), then will we be able to play the 8 being added as well, to up the amount to 24 civs ingame at the same time? if so then awesome!

 

[Shoegaze99]

rajofpsg, no, no, no, no. Near the beginning of your response you misunderstand my post, though later in the response you echo exactly what I said.

By *no means* do I intend to degrade Canada or Australia. As I noted, both have been successful and productive countries ... but they're "civilization" is so close to that of American, adding a Canadian civilization would be a near redundancy. There is very little (at the moment, at least) that screams CANADA and thus would warrant an all-new civ. As you yourself note, both Canada and Australia are part of a wider culture ... and that was exactly my point. And historically speaking, America will probably be remembered as the prime example of post Industrial Era Western Culture.

Once again, discounting Canada and Australia is not because they're insignificant - clearly they're not - but because their world impact has not been unique in the way that would define a seperate civilization. I'm not looking for country wars here, because that sort of nonsense is utterly worthless.

All of this is why, you'll note, I think Mexico or Brazil would be a more reasonable modern civ to add to the game. They represent something not already in place, a people and culture and style of civilization not currently present. But I part ways with you on Spain representing all, because South American Latino culture is a beast all its own and is wholly unrelated to Spanish culture. There are links, to be sure, but they are very much two seperate entities and quite distinct from one another. That's why it would be reasonable to have both a Spanish *and* a Latino (whether Mexico, Brazil, etc.) civ.

Incidentally, I agree with you that the American civ feels out of place in the game for much the same reasons you outline.

What about the Dutch? A world power for quite some time; a European culture, yes, but one that differs in many ways from the British, Germans and France.

 

[Chairman Qu]

I looked at "play the world.txt" in the text folder, and it has some (but very little) hints on what the actual expansion might be like:

; Play the world
; text strings for the main menu
; Created: D.E.



#PTW
EXIT
MAIN MENU
Get the Game of the Week
Get the Game of the Day
View Scores
Exit
Your Current Score:

#PTWERR_SERVER_NOT_FOUND
Cannot find the Server or communications error.

#PTWERR_BAD_USERNAME
Bad username, please re-enter or create a new account.

#PTWERR_BAD_PASSWORD
Password incorrect, please try again.

#PTWERR_UNDEFINED
Undefined error. Server returned something unexpected.

# ; This line must remain at end of file

Game of the week and game of the day probably represent downloadable maps in which the scores can be compared with that of other players. The rest is pretty standard login/password and error messages. I wonder if there's any other hints in the game folders ...

 

[DelinquentRock]

I must say something of Canada and Australia. I personally think that neither one of them should be admitted into this game (great now every one hates me). It is not because they have no culture or feelings of nationalism (they have proved they have both) but the simple fact that when it comes to war and fighting for what they think their governments (not their people) seems to have lost its back bone. This will make some people mad but it still stands that in Australia firearms are against the law and in Canada they had a war trial when a man killed an Iraqi in the Persian gulf war! It seems to me that these countries governments have lost sight of the fact that a person/country must be willing to fight and sometimes kill or be killed for what they think is right even if what they believe in is such a utopian ideal as peace, and in a game where war is so often and peace so short these two young Civilization seem to be somewhat out of place.
Of course in opposition to what I have just said I think that it would fill a large gap in America and the South Pacifica (in modern-day scenarios), and as was said earlier they do have a very diverse culture and people. So in final I must say that I am very indifferent, but fell their are some Civilization who deserve to be put before either of these. Did I put that diplomatically enough?

PS Mali would be a great Civilization to add to this game. They where one of the most powerful Civilizations of all time at their peak (owned all of the Ivory coast and half of what is now the Sahara Desert) and when their King made his tripe to Mecca (they where Muslims) he paid so many Alms (over 8,000 gold bars) along the way that the international value of gold dropped by 25%. If someone has no clue what I am talking about this is my candidate for the 2nd African Civilization (personally I think they should have been before Zululand).

 

[DelinquentRock]

I must correct my self (I just looked this up) King Mansa Musa of Mali took 12,ooo slave with 4 gold bars each (aka 48,ooo) on his grand tripe to Mekkah, witch he freely dispensed to the less fortunate along the way. That's what I call a man convicted to what he believes!

 

[jamesjkirk]

More African civs are definitely need, definitely Ethopia/Aksum, and at least one West Africa civ, be it Mali or Yoruba or Asante or Dahomey, it's needed. There should be a whole new African race too, and Egypt should be part of it, as research now refutes the 19th century racial theories of Euro medditerranian civs being responsible for the success of Egypt, most of its roots are actually in SubSaharan Africa

 

[jayco312]

"This will make some people mad but it still stands that in Australia firearms are against the law." originally posted by DelinquentRock

Also as we sit here there are Australian SAS troops in Afghanistan and peace keeping frocesin East Timor so the government the government does beleive in fighting for what they think is righ. So I would advise you to get your facts right before commenting Delinquent Rock

 

[Orac]

I think it's ok to see some smaller civ's appear in the game. It would be fun making Iceland the biggest nation in the world
So I guess it's Vikings for me please

 

[Selous]

Originally posted by jayco312
"This will make some people mad but it still stands that in Australia firearms are against the law." originally posted by DelinquentRock

Also as we sit here there are Australian SAS troops in Afghanistan and peace keeping frocesin East Timor so the government the government does beleive in fighting for what they think is righ. So I would advise you to get your facts right before commenting Delinquent Rock

u forgot the continued army presence in boganville and the navy boys in iraq

actually im quite enraged by your comments about fighting for what is right and whatnot ... as pointed out we have troops in afganistan and large bodys of regular troops in east timor, we did go to vietnam and koria to stand beside our american allies and fight for freedom and democracy ... guess u dont learn that kind of thing over their?

and firarms illegal in australia? hmmmm ... u do know it is only military style weapons and semi automatics for civilions

but anyway ... rant over ... for a while ... i also dont think australia or canada shoud really be in the game, but not for any of your reasons (i also dont think america should be in it) simply becuase they are all new nations but unfortunatly civ3 doesnt have any kind of system to have civil wars or breakaway coloneys, now that is something the civ3 expantion should have to change the in game dynamics!!

Edit: GRRRrrrr after rereading your post again ... hmmmm which country stayed out of both the world wars for the first few years? hmmmmm ... and guess which 2 countries didnt? hmmmmm ... who got the backbone for a fight u say?

 

[Ve Grand Poobah]

The Australia Issue-

Get over yourselves. I'm an Australian, But I seriously don't believe we deserve a slot. Surely, There needs to be an Australasian Culture, But Australia as it is now Certainly doesn't count.


Our Culture is also Significantly different. We, much like America, are a Perhiperhal of Anglo Culture, But Unlike Canada or The US, we spent 120 Years in relative Isolation from the Rest of the Western World. Though we are losing a fair bit of our Identity, Australian Culture is still a prevailing theme in Australia. Americans Can't even comprehend our take on the english Language & our sense of humour.


My Vote is for the Koori Ethnic/linguistic Group That was in SE Australia (4 tribes wer located in Sydney of this origin). Possibly the Maori's, Nut I'm not sure the world Needs another Montezuma Randomly declaring war & eating human Flesh...

The 'Saracen' Issue.
Very simple. Replace that Useless War Chariot with a Mameluke, & Give us male & Female Leaderheads. Egypts could Hatepshut & Saladin. There, problem solved.


My civs-
1.Vikings
I'm not going to Explain Myself here. Lager, Horns & Scandanavian Chicks...

2.The Aforementioned Australasian culture
For Balance. If we want to argue 'insignifigance' what the hell are The Iroquos Doing there?

3.The Manchu
A personal Favourite. China can get the Cho Ku No, these guys can get a less clean looking version of the rider. Another Balancing Civ.

4.The Mongols
I want a Horse Archer!!!

5.The Turks
The Ottomans. Easily the Largest Shaping Factor of Post Renaissance Europe. (An Empire Australia Is responsible to delivering the deathblow to). It's about time this civ was included.

6.Carthage
An Important Civ. We might all be Marvelling at the Carthaginians if Hannibal had the balls to Attack Rome after Decimating the Roman Levies during his 3rd year of Campaigning in Italy.

7.Ethiopia

Another Balancer. Prestey John!

8.The Incans

South America!!!



Errata-

The Germans
Why isn't Vienna A german City? After all, Germany Might have been a Nation centred on Vienna with Prussia Being Austria's Equivalent (A much alrger Equivalent...). Austria is a German State, Just a majority Roman Catholic One.

There you Go, my list & Comments

 

[Thunderfall]

So each of the 8 new Civs will has its own special unit... this is gonna be fun!

 

[Agent-0]

I would like to see something like a "United Independents" addition to the game.

Right now one of two things happens when one of your cities is angry with your leadership, they join another country or they riot. I would like to see a third option for those cities. Some cities could rebel and form "Independents".

For example say you were settling a new land far from your civ's capital/main country. One city in this far off land would declare itself an "Independent New *Insert Civ Name*", becoming its own country. If it had enough culture it could lure other cities nearby into its country by force or culture "United Independent *Insert Civ Name*". The less you dealt with the problem the more cities in the area would break away and join these new countries.

They could even have it so each Civ has an independent Civ that could come from it, like USA from England or Mexico from Spain.
I think that would be a very cool addition to the game.



Scenarios are a MUST for the new game... I can't stress that enough.

More resources and more varied and numbers of terrian tiles would also improve maps. Such as .. mountains and hills completely covered in snow.

I would like the ability to put handicaps on specific civs which would contribute greatly to the historical feeling of custom world maps like Marla's World Map.

The reason for this is that you could set, for example, the Iroquois to be behind their Old World counterparts by a specific amount of time or eras in technology.

You could play around with scenarios like what could have happen if New World had colonized the Old world, but you would need these handicaps.


Also for the new expansion pack :

Governments ranging from
Totalarianist Pure Communist to Dictator Facist Governments.

You know how when you have a large country in Civ 3 and it takes along time for the country to switch Government types, it would very VERY VERY usefull to see a progress bar or maybe a Civil war raging on the map .
What I mean is that your lands would devide into two "sides"..
So say going from Monarchist to Communist..
The Monarchists would be established in your oldest cities and capitals and Communist in the more economically stress areas with many peasents.. thing is the side you told to win would always win. So if you were Monarchist and said to switch to Communist.. it may take awhile.. but it would always succeed.

A visual aid to see how Government changes were progressing would be VERY useful.. I think you could all agree.


As for additional Civs.

North America
-Haida (Given afew more hundred years and they could have been very powerfull in the pacific north west).. I may be wrong but I was told they were very advanced for their area in North America.

South America
-Inca

Africa
-I can't think of any names right now, but another should be added to stop Egypt and Zulu from controling an entire continient.

Asia
-Mongolia (not as a full Civ.. but more as cross between Barbarians and Full Fledged AI Civ).

Europe
-Spain
-Scandinavians (Vikings)


That's it for now..

I hope Firaxis delivers on atleast part of my hopes.