Civ3: (In)Complete
- Thread starter Longasc
- Start date
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Most likely. If we're in some luck, it's have less issues to start with.
What realy pisses me off is that all the reviews of CIV Complete will not say a word on all these problems,on the other hand they will probably rank the game with the highest marking.Exactly as they did with C3C when it was released,not a single word on the numerus bugs,not a single word on the lack of art work because of the motive time=money.Before i buy C3C everything that i had read about it had to do with things that i didn't find in the game,or didn't want to find.
Unfortunately everything has to do with advertisement,they have the right connections (as every major company does) so they don't have to fear about bad critics.So everyone will buy it,how soon they 'll find out what they bought isn't a matter that disturbs ATARI.
Unfortunately everything has to do with advertisement,they have the right connections (as every major company does) so they don't have to fear about bad critics.So everyone will buy it,how soon they 'll find out what they bought isn't a matter that disturbs ATARI.
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
Most likely Civ Complete will never be reviewed at all by any major media outlets. It's just a bundle of existing products after all. The major magazines and sites won't bother with it.
kokoras, time does equal money in the industry (it is a business after all). I know that Breakaway was given a fixed amount of time and money to do their part of C3C. Fixed, as in a certain amount that couldn't be exceeded. Fixed.
This implies that if the amount wasn't enough to do everything (and it never is) things have to be prioritized.
In addition, you are giving a review conspiracy that just plain doesn't exist in the real world. If it did, wouldn't they have done the same with PTW? The weighted average rating (at www.gamerankings.com - the site the industry uses to judge how well they did) for Conquests was only an 85.8% - good, but not awesome. PTW, on the other hand got a 64.4%, a fairly poor showing. If this conspiracy existed, wouldn't they have bought a higher rating?
kokoras, time does equal money in the industry (it is a business after all). I know that Breakaway was given a fixed amount of time and money to do their part of C3C. Fixed, as in a certain amount that couldn't be exceeded. Fixed.
This implies that if the amount wasn't enough to do everything (and it never is) things have to be prioritized.
In addition, you are giving a review conspiracy that just plain doesn't exist in the real world. If it did, wouldn't they have done the same with PTW? The weighted average rating (at www.gamerankings.com - the site the industry uses to judge how well they did) for Conquests was only an 85.8% - good, but not awesome. PTW, on the other hand got a 64.4%, a fairly poor showing. If this conspiracy existed, wouldn't they have bought a higher rating?
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
I wouldn't say that, Longasc, but I'm very content with my current job and haven't even asked anyone at Firaxis about it in quite a while (not even over lunch with them).
That is immaterial to my responses though.
The fact is that the media conspiracy to inflate scores just does not exist. PTW got bad scores (deservedly) and C3C got decent (not great, but decent) scores. It is a decent game.
Back to your original topic, of course there will still be issues in CIV once they move on to the next big thing (which may or may not be CIV:V).
It's the nature of the business for a small development house (that hasn't had a huge hit). You are being funded by the next game, not the one on the shelves. Most likely, unless the one on the shelves is a big hit, you won't see any more money than you were given up front to make it. Most game companies do not have enough of a money buffer to allocate a lot of time for projects that aren't paying the bills.
Would I like Firaxis to have a big enough hit that they can have a little more of a buffer? Yes. About the only one I can see getting that big is Pirates!. It might have mainstream success (Civ3 didn't really - it was a success, but many a mediocre PS2 game sold a lot more).
In addition, they only have so many people to work with. Firaxis only has around 10 programmers and isn't really a growing company (in fact, they have no intention to grow beyond the number of people needed to work on two projects at once).
That is immaterial to my responses though.
The fact is that the media conspiracy to inflate scores just does not exist. PTW got bad scores (deservedly) and C3C got decent (not great, but decent) scores. It is a decent game.
Back to your original topic, of course there will still be issues in CIV once they move on to the next big thing (which may or may not be CIV:V).
It's the nature of the business for a small development house (that hasn't had a huge hit). You are being funded by the next game, not the one on the shelves. Most likely, unless the one on the shelves is a big hit, you won't see any more money than you were given up front to make it. Most game companies do not have enough of a money buffer to allocate a lot of time for projects that aren't paying the bills.
Would I like Firaxis to have a big enough hit that they can have a little more of a buffer? Yes. About the only one I can see getting that big is Pirates!. It might have mainstream success (Civ3 didn't really - it was a success, but many a mediocre PS2 game sold a lot more).
In addition, they only have so many people to work with. Firaxis only has around 10 programmers and isn't really a growing company (in fact, they have no intention to grow beyond the number of people needed to work on two projects at once).
dexters said:
Supposedly, they tried but were screwing it up worse so they gave up. Though i have trouble imagining what was getting worse by fixing invisible units and armies. Those 2 things alone would have shut up alot of us complainers... well... for a while anyway
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
I agree. They should bite the bullet and fix the top 4 or five bugs.
Mr. Hyperbole
understated cynic
Warpstorm: I have to say that you provide some of the most reasoned responses I've seen on the patch posts(however much I may HATE to admit that I agree with you; we'll never see another patch pre-CIV IV).
Actually, I hate agreeing with you on many of your posts! You're just too damned logical!
If only I could vent without someone like you bringing common sense into the forum!! 
What would be the chances of Firaxis releasing the code to the public(or selected individuals)so those people could correct these bugs on their own(thus avoiding extra expense)?
Actually, I hate agreeing with you on many of your posts! You're just too damned logical!
If only I could vent without someone like you bringing common sense into the forum!! What would be the chances of Firaxis releasing the code to the public(or selected individuals)so those people could correct these bugs on their own(thus avoiding extra expense)?
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
Mr. Hyperbole said:You're just too damned logical!
This is irrelevant, will date me, and raise my nerdy geek factor by at least one notch, but my boyhood hero was Mr. Spock.
Mr. Hyperbole
understated cynic
@ Warpstorm:
Actually, this doesn't really date you. I'm 27 and have also emulated Spock as I've grown(which is why today I still attempt to view things as dispassionately as possible). So I salute you, fellow geek!
P.S. What do YOU think the chances are of Firaxis releasing the code for individuals to fix? I personally find it unlikely, but would appreciate a second opinion
Actually, this doesn't really date you. I'm 27 and have also emulated Spock as I've grown(which is why today I still attempt to view things as dispassionately as possible). So I salute you, fellow geek!
P.S. What do YOU think the chances are of Firaxis releasing the code for individuals to fix? I personally find it unlikely, but would appreciate a second opinion
Last time I checked, both advertising and reputation affect sales, big time! So, how are sales with the lame product called, CIV Complete? No one knows yet, too early I guess. Ok, what about advertising, well, no reviews old game same company, well what will come up if someone 'new' searchs for information? Here, there and anywhere there is activity. And here we say it sucks a lot, or shall I be logical, uncomplete instead?
Reputation, word of mouth ergo advertising counts, and is at first subtle, accumulates over time, winds up rolls you over. Firaxis is flat! Going on and taking hit after hit on their reputation with their unfinished business allowing us to complain for years, gee this is not a money making equation.
Talk, money, have money as your excuse to do poorly too consistently and what, just nothing, something that was... a has been.
Find a way to fix the thing (Conquests) excuses be damned or they (those excuses) will bury you. Simple math. Less to less receeding.
Right now, Firaxis is gambling on the next one, being a big hit. I am not betting on this one. However, one more year of this and these boards will be ghost towns anyway. Kind of thin now for that matter. New games are on the horizon, my beloved 'ass' will most likely be on one of them...
Reputation, word of mouth ergo advertising counts, and is at first subtle, accumulates over time, winds up rolls you over. Firaxis is flat! Going on and taking hit after hit on their reputation with their unfinished business allowing us to complain for years, gee this is not a money making equation.
Talk, money, have money as your excuse to do poorly too consistently and what, just nothing, something that was... a has been.
Find a way to fix the thing (Conquests) excuses be damned or they (those excuses) will bury you. Simple math. Less to less receeding.
Right now, Firaxis is gambling on the next one, being a big hit. I am not betting on this one. However, one more year of this and these boards will be ghost towns anyway. Kind of thin now for that matter. New games are on the horizon, my beloved 'ass' will most likely be on one of them...
I don't know why I or anyone else ever really trusted Firaxis to fix these bugs; there were bugs in the SMAC expension pack that seemed like they could be really easily fixed that never got sorted out, so why did we expect better? Oh well. I'll still buy Civ 4, as long as it'll run on my PC. But, this is unlikely anyway, since graphics will probably be a massive priority.
I'm not warpstorm, but I'd say that the chances of Firaxis releasing Civ3 code to the general public are next to none.
As for Civ3 being an incomplete game, well... Firaxis fixed the most glaring bugs so far, and the game is far from unplayable. This is what matters to the average gamer. Sure, we're fanatics, we want barbarians who can attack us in every direction, but, quite frankly, this is a minor bug for an average gamer.
And Firaxis is not making games for us. They're making them for all.
As for Civ3 being an incomplete game, well... Firaxis fixed the most glaring bugs so far, and the game is far from unplayable. This is what matters to the average gamer. Sure, we're fanatics, we want barbarians who can attack us in every direction, but, quite frankly, this is a minor bug for an average gamer.
And Firaxis is not making games for us. They're making them for all.
CIVPhilzilla
Reagan Republican
I just want the sub bug fixed, and the AI to use armies.
dear Alexnm
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
watorrey said:Supposedly, they tried but were screwing it up worse so they gave up. Though i have trouble imagining what was getting worse by fixing invisible units and armies. Those 2 things alone would have shut up alot of us complainers... well... for a while anyway
Anyway I just wish that they never bothered with sub-bug, since it took too much of their precious time (they admited working on it) and made them forgot about other bugs such as rushing/filling armies or barbarian AI bug.
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
Antrine said:
Civ Complete is the last stop before bargain bin for the Civ3 line. In most games, there is a "Complete" or "Gold" or "Platinum" or "Game of the Century" version that is snuck onto store shelves at a discount price.
These type of titles usually have no major advertising budget associated with them, nor do the companies have any great hopes of making much money off of them. On the other hand, there is very little cost involved in doing one of these as the expensive parts (development and marketing) were done for the original title and its expansions. The only real costs are the cost of materials (very small) and the cost to get it on store shelves. All-in-all these are a no-risk low-return option for the company.
This title is geared for the impulse buyer who skipped Civ3 for the past 3 years and sees the whole thing for $20 at Wal-Mart (it'll be $20 before too long).
Next stop, the jewel case only $10 bargain bin version...
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