Civ4 Newbie, strategy support Please

[Soundwαvє ▼]

I played a little with Civ 2 then I thought, will be easy when Civ 4 arrive, but I thought wrong... I read all the manual, ALL, what helped a lot but there is somethings that the manual doesn't explain those things we call Strategy.

If you had the patient and will to help a poor soul now do it answering the following questions:

In Civ 2 I used to build a lot of cities but in the Civ 4 seems that is better build less and they need to be far away, right?

What is Vanilla ( I know those others expansions BTS, Warlords and vanilla is what)?

I'm normally a peaceful nation and don't expand much things on military and even don't research much military things and then I can at certain point be really technology ahead others but always one of them try to crush me, and even being in the modern age (that message that appears showing the age) I still don't know powder, so should I look more at military?

And those boring guys that always ask for taxes like 1000 gold (90% of my treasury) how can I apply to them in a way that don't make them declare war if I refuse?

There is no more diplomats?

When I convert a foreign city to my religion what it does? And why my cities keep appearing with another religion instead mine (They are not converted, but then I need to convert).

Which is better and in which occasion we should use Free Religion or Pacifism?



Thanks in Advance
Happy new year

 

[azbestor]

Vanillia is a basic game,in other words Civ4 without expansion. In different games (like diablo 2) it means unmodded game (add medianXL to d2:lod and you no longer have vanillia).

Number of cities depends on your needs. Basically you want to claim best spots on the map,but some fillers are welcome. However every city bumps upkeep costs of your empire,same goes for distance:the further,the more it costs.

Military:it depends on level you play: on chieftain you can go away with just one defender per city+some barbarian removal force,on warlord and higher you need considerable military to keep power ratio on some level,or else you will became first one to get attacked. Avoiding wars is a bad thing IMO,and it takes one or two dedicated cities to get enough military (one for offensive highly promoted units,second makes defenders and other things).

These boring guys will shut up,once you have considerable military,then they will swallow refusal nicely.

Diplomats are long gone (civ3 lacked them too),but you have spies to use.

If your nation religion is present in a city,you get one happy face in that city and you can build temple,monastery and (cathedral) of said religion. If you control holy city of said religion,you can use great prophet to create shrine,which gives 1 gold per city with that religion (it doesn't matter if it's your city or not). Another thing is Apostolic Palace,which enhances religion buildings of hosts national religion and adds some diplomatic options. Last thing about religions:if foreign city has same religion as your national and is under heavy cultural pressure from your side it's more likely to revolt to your side.

Pacifism is great if you run a lot of specialists and don't plan any war in near future. Free religion is quite universal,good in most times.

Happy new year too.

 

[Ecori]

First off Vanilla refers to the original game without expansions. It refers to "original civ4". If you don't have BtS yet it is a must have - improves the game in so many mays!

I have never played civ2, but played a fair bit of civ3 where you were supposed to spam as many cities as possible. This is not the case in Civ4. You pay maintenance for each city and the more cities you have the higher civic upkeep you pay. That being said having alot of land is a huge advantage. Try to asking yourself when you're going to found a city wether it will benefit your empire or not. Does it bring in valuable resources? Does it have lots of food? Does it have any riverside to cottage? In the BCs it is basically a trade off between land and research, since more cities mean lower science slider.
About location, there is no benefit to having them far away from your capital. Actually you pay higher maintenance with increasing distance from your palace.

It is possible to completely neglect your military and solely survive on diplomacy (on the higher levels this is to some extent completely nessecary), but it's tricky and you have to know a great deal about diplomacy and the different leaders personality. Try building enough military to be able to defend yourself should you be attacked. When you get better you will be able to predict if you are likely to be attacked by someone. And remember that one Infantry can fend off alot of macemen.

If you are weak and not on good terms the AI will make demands. And if you refuse them they will declare war. It is often a good idea to give them what they ask for. This way they will not attack you the next 10turns and you get a +diplo with them.

No diplomats.

You don't "convert" a city to a religion. You can convert your State Religion. Several religions can be present in a city at the same time while you can only have one state religion. If you have founded a religion and get a great prophet you can build a shrine in the holy city. This gives 1commerce/city with the religion in it. So spreading your religion to foreign cities gives you gold. THERE IS NO BENEFIT IN USING A RELIGION, YOU HAVE FOUNDED, AS STATE RELIGION OVER A FOREIGN RELIGION. If you have founded Budhism and all your nabours are hindu it is advisable to convert to thir religion for the diplo bonus.

Free religion: for teching, if several different religions are being used by the AIs and you don't want to take side.

Pacifism: You need the great person points, have no military and want to be running a state religion.

Hope this helped a bit.

 

[Soundwαvє ▼]

Thank you so much for the answers!

I just forget one thing... In the manual it doesn't looks very clear so what is a Village, what it does? Seems to be a kind of city, isn't?

Thanks in Advance

 

[MyOtherName]

In Civ 2 I used to build a lot of cities but in the Civ 4 seems that is better build less and they need to be far away, right?

I think you've misinterpreted your problem -- you're probably having economic problems not because you built too many cities, but because you aren't developing your economy!

In civ 2, because of the way roads worked, every city was good for gold and research. In civ 4, your economy doesn't just happen automatically -- you have to make explicit choices to invest^* in cottages, work high-yield tiles, focus on specialists, improve the returns on trade routes (and how many you get), and so forth. Maybe even build wealth or research in a pinch.

*: Not just build them, but work them too

should I look more at military?

Probably

And those boring guys that always ask for taxes like 1000 gold (90% of my treasury) how can I apply to them in a way that don't make them declare war if I refuse?

One way to avoid that problem is not to build up a huge treasury.

But for the most part, the only way to avoid having to pay tribute is to have an adequate military yourself. And even then, you might still want to pay tribute anyways so as to improve diplomatic relations.

 

[MyOtherName]

I just forget one thing... In the manual it doesn't looks very clear so what is a Village, what it does? Seems to be a kind of city, isn't?

It's a tile improvement.

You can't build them directly. You create them by:

1. Building a cottage
2. Having one of your citizens work the cottage for 10 turns. (This makes a hamlet)
3. Having one of your citizens work the hamlet for 20 turns. (This makes a village)

And the village can turn into a town.

 

[GrayInvisible]

You should post a save of one of your games around midpoint so people can check it out, see how well you are doing, and give you more tips if there are any other mistakes you are making.

 

[Soundwαvє ▼]

Thank you again guys!
Here is a save from my current game.
Also my cities always get sick because they grow too fast (Sick because of the population, I have no pollution yet). I know that I need to gain health (being near water, aqueducts, some resources, etc) but is impossible grow more than 17

Thanks in advance guys.

PS: God, this community ROCKZ you really help people!

 

[Soundwαvє ▼]

I played a little more and I think that everything is going well, I discovered how to keep my city healthy, anyway I'm having issues to make an ally, it's normal?

Upgrade of the save:

 

[Evil Beejeebers]

I had a look at your save you have done a good job to develop most your Land, however some of your city's are not that effective most of the flood plain tiles have farms on them. When i have flood plains i build cottages on them as they are great for cottaging because it produces the same amount of food as a grass land tile with a farm with the added bonus of money/commerce

your Army is quite small when i play i make a city who's purpose is to bulid military units till the game is over and certain buildings such as the heroic epic, barracks, stable anything to to with war goes in this city. even though your army is small it's quite good compared to the other teams on the power chart on a higher difficulty it would not be good enough though.

so try and always have a city to build units certain civfanatics members call theses city's 'unit pumps' if you have a chance to build a second army city take it.

I think you have expanded well which is good.

 

[mrt309]

About health:
- You can research Medicine technology. So you can build hospitals which give +3 health in your cities. Also it enables Environmentalism civic which gives +6 health in every city.
- Building supermarkets, grocers and granaries allows your cities to get health bonuses from some resources like Corn, Cow, Banana,...

In my opinion there is no need to worry about health in your game. Your cities are still fine. Cities can grow more than health cap. When a city grows over health cap, it loses 1 food for each unhealthy population. If you have enough food, you can easily grow your cities.

 

[lymond]

Some general comments on reviewing your gsave:

1) First note: Vanilla CIV4 and BTS have some differences so I may not be correct on everything, since I don't play Vanilla often except for the GOTMs. I recommend getting BTS as many of the strat games here use it.

2) Appears you have some workers parked when some cities need improving bad. Medina is in dire need of food to work better tiles or specialists. You are working unimproved tiles when you should have farms on grassland near lake. Good production city. Don't forget windmills too.

3) Looks like you've had Optics for some time but don't see any Caravels out exploring the map. Although not vital, I always like to get the circum bonus and finding unexplored territory to possibly settle.

4) I know you like peace, but I think some of your neighbors could be shown who is boss. You don't have copper or iron which is a big problem. Might be able to trade for it - temporarily - for a high cost, to upgrade units and then conquer some territory with these resources -> iron is more important long term.

5) You appear to have a strong tech lead. Not sure why you aren't going for Liberalism and the free technology. Regardless, you can drop your slider to 0 for a while to accumulate gold for upgrading units, trades, etc. Later you can run Universal Suffrage to rush buy units and buildings.

6) Spiritual is a great trait. No anarchy on civic changes. Use it. You built the Pyramids (one of the best wonders by the way) and are running Serfdom, which is a useless trait especially on Normal speed - I only use it for short times on Marathon speed when I play it. With Representation, you should probably run Caste System for extra specialist and science boost. I hope you make use of Slavery too, which is probably the most important early civic.

7) This game is very winnable, especially Space Race. However, it's good to practice things that will help you move up levels. Just keep in mind that you could have some problems if attacked even though your power rating is decent, as you can't upgrade melee or horse units. YOU HAVE UNDEFENDED CITIES!!! Major no-no. Military is very important regardless of how peaceful you want to play. You should always have a prod city dedicated to pumping units - with the Heroic Epic (build it as soon as it's available!!!). Send units to defend border cities but also create a Stack of Doom (SoD) to be read when need to defend or attack. Always good to keep your SoD near the border of a rival CIV that doesn't like you very much.

8) City specialization is probably a good thing to read up on and practice. I see several cities that don't seem to have an identity. You have cities with developed villages - almost towns - that are currently not being worked. Read up on commerce, production and GP farm cities. Commerce are good science or gold cities. Production cities are good for unit pumps, wonder pumps and building wealth, beakers and culture. GP farms are food rich - usually good food resources - that generate Great People and are flexible to your strategy.

9) Oxford is a great wonder. Get those universities up fast and build Oxford. Again, your teching great on Settler level but this will help for higher levels.

10) In general, I recommend having closer to 10 cities by now via various methods

11) I recommend only playing a few games on Settler and then move up. You will feel more pressure as you move up that will help you improve your game and really see these strategies play out. Settler is just too easy. You can always move down a notch to try out new strategies. I recommend moving to Noble soon.

 

[Soundwαvє ▼]

Again Thank you. The overview will make my gaming much better! I'm going to look forward to multiplayers game when get better at single ones. But seems that hasn't much interest in multiplayer games.

Global warming is something from nukes or can be also from pollution?

I won the game by Space Race, diplomacy was hard (just myself voted in me)

 

[lymond]

I updated some points above that you may have missed.

Diplomacy is one of the hardest and likely last things to master. I wouldn't worry to much about it for now. Just keep your power rating high and try to align with more powerful civs based on religions. Word to the wise - You don't always have to adopt the religion(s) you found yourself or adopt one right away. Let the pieces fall into place and then align yourself with a bloc and work on that relationship via trades, etc. and even giving into demands. Then shun those CIVs that you will likely attack or have attacked.

Another note, keep reading up on this forum. Lot's of great folks better than I with great advice. Try out some of the games. Nobles Club would be a good place to start for now. Play, post reports, read reports, repeat, rinse.

 

[Soundwαvє ▼]

Sorry Lymond I just didn't saw your post... BTW is one of most informative here.

Seems that you checked my old save, there is a new one where I'm much more advanced.

Instead Caravels I did Galleons to explore and transport Settlers and Workers, may was a mistake.

Yeah I should make at least one unit in each city, when I don't get Iron or Copper I can only trade or domain it by culture or war, right?

I'm always a tech leader, in front of everything (Culture, wealth and war) the second is Culture then wealth. I use war just when needed like when I thought that that mongol was going to win by diplomacy (Just because I lose the diplomacy poll and I thought that the other one was going to win because was me against him), ie, I did a big mistake, then I destroyed all his cities (I was really ahead in military techs compared to him) but why he is not kicked or defeated, even if I destroy all his cities?

Serfdoms seems to be better than barbarism, but I usually use Free Speach when I can, also about the economy which is the best? Emancipation? And what Slavery does, I know that increase the production but which are the collateral effects?

What you mean by city identity? Also is because sometimes I just forget that city (Will stop with this behavior)

I build it on that late save, and usually try because I'm a tech nation and it is just crucial for tech nations, at least I think is.

10 Cities, I reached something closer to it I think, also because I dominate 3 or 4 cities by culture.

Moving up in the second game (This was my first), Noble? Ok I'm going as noble, let's see how much I can survive...
---------------------------

Your Second Thread: Thanks for more information, about aling: Is really hard because I need to research fascism what I thought was just a bad thing, but now I see that is good. What is the noble club? Where can I find it?


Another Question:

Some good civics configurations please:

Mines:

Representation (Or Universal Suffrage, depends if I need to quickly evolute)
Free Speach
Not formed (depends on situation)
Environmentalism
Pacifism (Or Free Religion if I start losing control of my religion, ie, others religions start appearing in my cities)

Another one when I'm a little tech behind:

Hereditary Rule
Bureaucracy
Serfdom (as you said, seems to be a bad thing)
State Property
Organized Religion



Thanks in Advance!

 

[lymond]

Sorry Lymond I just didn't saw your post... BTW is one of most informative here.
ha..thanks
Seems that you checked my old save, there is a new one where I'm much more advanced.
Regardless, the advice at the time is appropriate for where you were in the game and how it will effect your game at higher levels
Instead Caravels I did Galleons to explore and transport Settlers and Workers, may was a mistake.
Galleons come with Astro which can take some time after Optics depending on your strategy. Once you have Optics it may be a good idea to get send at least one Caravel out exploring the seas. The Circumnavigation Bonus from discovering the world is round gives +1 movement to all boats. It's nice to have but not vital. Exploring anyway on most maps is good.

Yeah I should make at least one unit in each city, when I don't get Iron or Copper I can only trade or domain it by culture or war, right?

Yep, at least one - maybe more if running Hereditary Rule and suffering from happiness issues. More important is securing the borders.

I'm always a tech leader, in front of everything (Culture, wealth and war) the second is Culture then wealth. I use war just when needed like when I thought that that mongol was going to win by diplomacy (Just because I lose the diplomacy poll and I thought that the other one was going to win because was me against him), ie, I did a big mistake, then I destroyed all his cities (I was really ahead in military techs compared to him) but why he is not kicked or defeated, even if I destroy all his cities?

You are playing Settler level which is VERY easy. As you move up you will have a much harder time staying ahead in all aspect - at least at first. Applying new strategies effectively will help you at the higher levels. As for the mongols, it's possible they may have settled somewhere you don't see. The only other possibility is you have a game option set that requires complete kills - that is, all cities AND units.

Serfdoms seems to be better than barbarism, but I usually use Free Speach when I can, also about the economy which is the best? Emancipation? And what Slavery does, I know that increase the production but which are the collateral effects?

See below

What you mean by city identity? Also is because sometimes I just forget that city (Will stop with this behavior)

I assume you mean city specialization. For one, you should check out the CIV4 War Academy for strat articles (see menu above) which include newbie articles and city specialization. I can go into that more but I suggest you read up. It's very important as you move up as well as micromanagement, especially in the early to mid-game

I build it on that late save, and usually try because I'm a tech nation and it is just crucial for tech nations, at least I think is.

???

10 Cities, I reached something closer to it I think, also because I dominate 3 or 4 cities by culture.

My point was getting there earlier. This is not always the case or possible depending on map, # of CIVs, difficulty, etc. However, on this map you could have achieved a more optimal number of cities much earlier. Doesn't matter though now as you are learning. It's just as important to use the cities you have effectively

Moving up in the second game (This was my first), Noble? Ok I'm going as noble, let's see how much I can survive...

Sorry, thought you had played a few more games than one. You may want to move up just a level or two - like Warlord.
---------------------------

Your Second Thread: Thanks for more information, about aling: Is really hard because I need to research fascism what I thought was just a bad thing, but now I see that is good. What is the noble club? Where can I find it?

Sorry, I don't follow your first couple of sentences (I realize English is not your first language). As for nobles club, it's one of the ongoing series of learner games played on this forum at different levels. It's the lowest of these types of games. There's an NC bullpen and several running threads on the forum - just look for "NC...." threads. Advance players usually play along too and provide advice plus very informative reports on their games.


Another Question:

Some good civics configurations please:

Mines:

Representation (Or Universal Suffrage, depends if I need to quickly evolute)
Free Speach
Not formed (depends on situation)
Environmentalism
Pacifism (Or Free Religion if I start losing control of my religion, ie, others religions start appearing in my cities)

Another one when I'm a little tech behind:

Hereditary Rule
Bureaucracy
Serfdom (as you said, seems to be a bad thing)
State Property
Organized Religion


Just a few comments on the above civics. First of all, not sure what you mean by the "Mines" header, other than possibly production focused which in that case those civs are not necessarily optimal. One key note on civics is that they often apply to your overall strategy which means that one cannot always recommend a certain combo. However, some civics were quite well with others and with certain Leader traits. Also, you just simply only have access to certain ones early on in the game so learning to use these wisely is important. It will take some time to develop all this but keep reading and it will come.

As to Slavery, this is often the first civic you have access to with Bronze Working - an important early tech to open up this civic and provide access to the very important early strategic resource of copper. Slavery allows one to what we call "whip". Whipping allows you to reduce population in a city for production to quickly finish builds of settlers, workers, units and buildings. It causes temporary unhappiness. It's a powerful tool and important to use wisely at higher levels and until you have production cities up an running nicely.

There is a synergy between certain civics, especially at given times. Representation is a powerful civic for happiness and research(using Great People). You have access early if you build the Mids, but if not it won't be available until much later. Works great with Caste System that allows you to run unlimited specialists. (Note: In BTS, Caste System is improved by providing also +1 hammers for workshops -adding synergy with State Property and techs like Guilds)

The problem with the listing of civics you provide is timing. Many of the civics you mention may not be available until much later in the game. The exceptions are two wonders that allow access to all Gov and Religion Civics. My point here being that you will learn over time when to effectively use all civics in given parts of the game.

Civics like Hereditary Rule, Slavery, Organized Religion (and a little later, Bureaucracy)are very powerful economic and production techs early in the game. They may not seem that way, but think about it. Hereditary Rule allows you to grow your city because of a higher happy cap, which allows you to work more "improved" tiles like cottages, mines, resources, food. Organized Religion increases the speed of buildings in cities with your state religion. Slavery allows you to whip out buildings, settlers and workers faster - or units if you want to go on the warpath. Bureaucracy is very popular and Civil Service is often a beeline tech for many - just make sure your Cap is set up nicely for this civic.

Representation and Caste are great for specialist economies, but this is a bit advanced and may not be good to focus on in the short term - not that you should not run any specialists. Very synergistic with leaders having the Philisophical trait.

Financial leaders are great for newbies due to the added commerce bonus. I recommend trying them out. Commerce cities near rivers and commerce resources (usually Calendar resources but also Gems/Gold) are great for "cottage spamming". Note that commerce is not the same as gold. This is an important concept. Commerce is turned into beakers, culture or gold based on how you run the sliders. Gold can be very powerful, so don't neglect it.

Other quick notes:

1) Workers are the most important unit in the game. General rule is 1.5 per 2 cities.

2) A very important concept at higher levels is not overbuilding. What is meant by this is not building everything in every city - this plays into city specialization. You should build certain buildings in every city. Here's my general rule on base buildings:
- Monument unless "Creative" trait or Stonehenge(this is for border pop)
- Granaries (arguably the most important building in the game - ha, well actually I don't think there's an argument for this one as it's simply a must)
- Libraries (even though not every city will be a "research" city, I generally like to have libraries in every city, especially early on. Increases teching, culture, and allows one to run Scientists early in cities with extra food or GP farms) I sometimes build this in lieu of monuments, if I have Writing in place, for border pops. However, it does take longer to build than a monument
- Usually Forges
- Possibly Courthouses - this is debatable and some leaders have maintenance bonuses

So the above buildings are the minimum required. Commerce cities can focus on beakers (research) or wealth (gold). Research cities should focus on cottages (or Great Scientists if a GP farm) and buildings that have research modifiers. Wealth cities focus on cottages and gold modifiers like banks, markets, grocers, etc. Prod cities focus on buildings that improve hammers and any buildings that the prod city focuses on like bulding units will need barracks, Heroic Epic, stables(BTS). Later buildings like Iron Works, West Point, Factories, etc, come into play.

Some buidlngs are situational. For instance, the aqueduct. Health can be an issue but several things effect health such as access to certain resources via improvements or trade. Don't build on aqueduct just for the heck of it.

Ultimately, the point here is that by not building everything these cities can do what they are mean to do. For instance, a unit pump Heroic Epic Production city should be building units at all times - less a brief period for getting in a key building. Also, you can do things like building wealth and research in cities once established.

3) Food is very important in all cases

4) Again, read those strat articles in War Academy and strategy sub-forum

5) Not sure if you are yet aware, but chopping forests provides production to cities. Learn to chop forest wisely to build things faster - great for early settlers, workers and wonders.

6) Wonder spamming is arguable. It's usually not feasible, optimal or possible to build all wonders. Some leaders have the Industrious trait which provides a bonus to wonders so this becomes a bit more attractive. Stone and Marble provide a bonus. If you don't have these resource and/or the Industrious trait then wonder building becomes more judicious (selective). Certain wonders are "arguably" better than others and also play into certain strategies. National Wonders are a whole other topic but very important to use wisely and in good combination since you can only have two in each city. Heroic Epic should be built immediately in your unit pump. Oxford is great in your research city - this can be your capital but not always. National Epic in GP farm. My new favorite is the Globe Theatre - it's great in a food rich city for secondary unit pump. Great strat articles and forum topics on these subjects.

7) Ha... I tend to use "arguable" a lot. It's simply for the reason that I've read a lot here and played alot, and experience players here have some different viewpoints on what is best. Also, CIV4 is one of the most dynamic and complex of games. However, there are some basics that will improve your play considerably. Most folks can fire up their first game of CIV ever at Settler level and probably do quite well. Once you hit Noble, it becomes a whole new ball game and gets very hard as you move up from there. It's that challenge that I think makes the game so fun and unique.

 

[Soundwαvє ▼]

In the Warlord game I won by time, but almost by Space Race. I felt the big difference:

Others Civs tend to be technologically equal to me, because they are faster and most because I become slower since I have more things to reply during the game.

I just didn't expand for the new continent ( I play maps Earth-like, also about it, should not the Earth-like map have more than 2 continents because the earth has 5 ), those barbarians are impossible to dominate I should have invested more forces and more ships but I was with several intern problems.

I did alliance with almost everybody and converted almost all of then, those who I'm not allied is because we have different religions and then I could not convert because they didn't opened borders with me and one even has Theocracy so I could never convert, I tried to convince him to change his civics but also didn't worked.

Most of the game I was in third or second place, but in the end I just go for the first place, principally because I was not involved in a war while others yes.

I got involved in two wars but for the minimum time, and I just declared war when my allies called for help, so I didn't much war but in the end was with a lot of units, most of them was what left from those defends.

Thanks lymond, I'll reply it soon just wait I create will

Will start a game in the next difficulty.

 

[Soundwαvє ▼]

I tried to skip the Noble difficult and go directly to the Prince, but I had no luck. Burned two times by the astecs they always declare war with me, and I try to defend normally they get all my others cities and my capital resist for long time, but can't evolute because my workers alway get killed.

Will try in the Noble now.

 

[Soundwαvє ▼]

Ok guys I'm playing in Noble, and going pretty good... I didn't involved myself in a war and have two ''friends'' they are at receptive and other as friendly those others are at caution and one is annoyed. Here is the save, tell me what I'm doing wrong and how winneable is this game, I'll keep playing but if I lose I'll recall this save to try again.

I didn't expanded so much, but I'm going to the other continent now with two galleons (one settler, one worker, one grenadier, one musketter, one axeman and one crossbow man)

Thanks in advance

PS: Reading something at War Academy.

 

[Soundwαvє ▼]

Failed my try to win in Noble, I didn't lose at all. Lose by time, I was in third position... my principal problem as that I spent a lot of resources in colonizing the other continent, could be easy but I did in the hard and wrong way. I know that nobody cares because I'm just another dumb newbie, but I'm posting to keep informed of my stupidity.

Will try again.