Fanatica
Strategic Mapmaker
All this talk about bugs ... you'd think it was a new civ country. I think it's great that something new is on the horizon.
Civilization 4
- Thread starter dshamand
- Start date
I read the initial post of this thread, and my first reaction was, "Who's been smoking what?! 2005 is seriously too soon to have a quality product out the door." So thanks, Jeff, for reminding us that this projected release schedule is just somebody's pipe dream, not based on real data.
If you want to be technical, the 2nd part of the SDLC (Software Development Life Cycle - the Golden Rule of Computer Science in my college) is the "Feasibility Phase", part of which has to do with cost and time. To make a long story short, "8-12 months" is just a timeframe to make Atari happy when they get the paperwork from companies that want them to publish their game. (i.e., if Atari had to wait 18-24 months for every game, they'd probably be out of business...)
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
Somehow I think that if Civ4 is really planned to be released in 2005, then I only think it would be possibile by rushing a project.
If it's now in early stages, you'll need at least a year and a half to make a new game. And if some showstopper bug comes in, there would be no time for delay because of chrismas season.
It would be much better to be released in 2006.
If it's now in early stages, you'll need at least a year and a half to make a new game. And if some showstopper bug comes in, there would be no time for delay because of chrismas season.
It would be much better to be released in 2006.
Isak
Civ4 Scenario Designer
Why this worrying about release dates? If it takes 200 man hours to build a road, it will take 4 men 50 hours to build it, but it will take 8 men only 25 hours, and 20 men will build it in 10 hours, and have time for a snack afterwards.
The release date is really not important, as long as the necessary staff is allocated for the required amount of time, is it?
The release date is really not important, as long as the necessary staff is allocated for the required amount of time, is it?
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
And if Firaxis hires 365 more programmers they can finish it by tomorrow, right? Woohoo!!!
And if I impregnate 9 women I can have a baby in a month.
And if I impregnate 9 women I can have a baby in a month.
Isak
Civ4 Scenario Designer
No, actually in that one instance it's always 9 months, regardless of how much time you spend...
rschissler
King
I wish I was that patient. Don't you want right now?
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
Ok, early 2006
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
No.
I want it after a lot of the game concepts have been revised, reworked, improved and massively play-tested.
I want it after a lot of the current limitations as for number of civs and cities have been put to a much higher level.
I want it after the engine has been optimized for more speed in the late game.
I want it after the editor allows for more logical changes. No more multiples of 25% in it (effect of markets, plants, libraries etc), but the chance to enter a numerical value for the effect.
I want it after the editor allows for easier modifications in regards to add units, improvements, techs etc.
I want it after it allows for all kinds of multiplayer games, preferrably with the option to change a LAN-game to a PBEM-game and vice versa.
I want it after a third of a trillion of other changes has successfully been implemented.
Then I will gladly spent some money for it again.
Well said!
I, too, am not happy about a Q4 2005 release. Seems way to quick for me. I'd rather have a good product out of the box (not necessarily bug free. You can't help bugs.) than one rushed out the door.
steviejay
Now in Black and White!!
ARGH!!! DON'T SAY THOSE WORDS!!! (flashback to whole load of bad memories about the SDLC in Systems Development
) <shudder>And everyone, just remember when they said 'Half Life 2' and 'The Sims 2' was due to be released. I upgraded my computer especially for Half Life 2 and I'm still waiting (however if my parents ask it was for college work ok?)
Even if they say 2005 or whenever, don't take it for granted
I would just like to know if there is an input email or thread or something that the designers will look at before making the initial/final gameplay decisions, since they are essentially in phase one.
Here are some thoughts:
Tiles
Landmark Forests: 1 forest tile per city can be designated as a park reserve/national forest. This would only produce commerce & give culture points, but would not produce food or shields, and could not have a railroad or mine built on it.
Forest Planting: Planting forests can help slow global warming. Also see United Nations. This would keep forest chopping for shields in the early ages, but promote forests in later ages.
Bonus Tiles: can be depleted like other resource tiles.
Coastal Waters: Can now contain and be mined for oil by dispatching a new naval unit to it (designers choice) and having it work like a colony does now.
Rivers: Workers can 'dam' a river for many turns. This can only be done once per river & once per city, but would create a 1 tile freshwater source on the tile that was dammed. Workers would be moved to an adjacent square upon completion.
Canal/Bridge: A 1 tile only bridge may be used to connect locations such as the modern day Panama Canal & Bering Straight. The canal can not be adjacent to a city or other canal & must connect 2 water tiles that are opposite of each other in respect to the canaled tile. The bridge would do the same for land, but must take place on a coastal water tile. The bridge could be built by the same new ship that constructs an oil colony (see Coastal Waters)
City tiles: 1 turn delay when moving population from a mined tile to an irrigated tile, and vice versa, in terms of productive gain.
Leaders
Cultural: A Cultural Leader with the ability to rush a Great Wonder (or smaller building), or create a National Monument in a city (one per city max) that gives culture points and adds tourism. This would be tactical in a border city if trying to culture flip a city, raise culture in a newly conquered city, or promote a cultural victory. These leaders would have a chance to spawn from (non-capitol/forbidden capitol cities with an extended 'we love the king' day, winning a war, 'x' turns without corruption, or positive UN action).
Air/Naval: see Air/Naval Elites
Units
Elites: Elite winning units can spawn Great Leaders or can be promoted into 'Special Forces.' These Spec Ops work like Privateers, but on land (ie - no nationality revealed).
Air/Naval Elites: Can become Squadron Leader/Flagship and be treated as Military Great Leaders (ie - build army), with maybe 1 less unit per army then ground troops allow (to keep things reasonable).
Refugees: A city may release a refugee (1 population point) that will migrate to a high cultured neighboring Civ. This would replace or maybe preceed the current Cultural Flip.
Conquered Civ's: Remaining units become Refugees, Barbarians, or neither.
Barbarians/Terrorists: Barbarians can evolve with the times. They will contain units that are '1 step' below that of the average Civ's best unit for their elite spawn, and lesser units for secondary spawn. Their camps can spawn in any land tile not used by a city, even if it's within a country's borders (ie - a culturally gained square). Camps are more likely to spawn next to cities with high corruption, or which were recently conquered.
Land Transports: Helicopter (treated like a land unit traveling a road) that can travel any land square other then mountains & can hold up to 3 units.
Attack Chopper: Apache style chopper (treated like a land unit traveling a road) that can travel any land square other then mountains & coastal waters, and is a Modern combat unit.
Game Features
Civil War: If corruption is too high and there is room for another Civ, a Culturally-Linked Civ will spawn in the corrupt cities. This Civ will take control of those cities. The units inside will be demoted, or left the same but at smaller numbers, or altered to guerillas/other offset units. Since this new Civ will have relations with the other Civs, the relations will be reversed from the Original Civs relations with those Civs (ie - Civ A's allies become enemies to Civ B, and vice versa).
World War (varying on map size/Civ opponents): When multiple Civs are in a large war, there is a chance for it to become a 'World War.'
Example- Let's assume there are 12 Civs in a game. Civ Z invades Civ A, and is therefore noted as the 'aggressor.' Another Civ joins the fight via an Alliance, which team doesn't matter. The other Civ calls forth it's own Alliance, and this continues to a set number. Let's say the number is 6. Once there are 6 Civs involved (assuming there are at least 2 Civs on each side & no same side Civ's are at War), there is a chance for it to become a 'World War.'
(A + B) vs Z
(B + C) vs Z
(A + D) vs Y
A vs (Z + Y)
A, B, C, D are aligned on one side & Z, Y on the other. Since Z was the aggressor, that side is dubbed the 'Axis' & the defending side (based on A) becomes the 'Allies.'
Now say Civ's E, M, N are neutral. Civ E decides to ally with D against Y. Since Y is part of the Axis, and D the Allies - this makes E part of the 'Allies' and are now allied with A, B, C, D against Y, Z. On the other hand, if Civ D allies with M against N, since M/N are not part of the World War, this becomes a separate affair.
Winning Civs gain Culture Leaders (or high chance of).
I know it's a lot to think about, but it's easy in terms of programming - all just IF/THEN scenarios.
Diplomacy
United Nations: Small Wonder or Modern Advancement leads to committee vote. Must contribute 10% of military units to UN (your choice, but in a given time), or lose vote/seat in UN.
UN votes on stopping wars, preventing Civil Wars, Becomes Allies in World Wars, can demand all Civs to set aside x% of land to forests to fight global warming (see above), demand Civ to destroy Nukes, make peace with other Civs or face UN troops (UN works as AI Civ who always forces peace), etc.
Civs: Can trade military units, not just workers. These units are demoted if infantry, armored units trade as is.
Can also demand peace be made by warring Civs (with or without UN).
Techs
Space Victory: Moon base, not spaceship - more realistic.
Satellite: updates 'x'% of map over 'y' time. Small Wonder?
Space Capsule: Small Wonder that works with other Civs capsules. Example- First Capsule is Space Station. Each additional capsule (1 per Civ) connects to International Space Station. This improves relations with those Civs. Each capsule itself also gives a tech bonus (say 5%), plus (say 1%) more per additional Civ capsules added to it (no more then 8% total). Must have a capsule in ISS to make a Moon Base for Space Victory?
Historical Relations: If 2 Civs have been at peace for the extent of at least one full Age, past wars become 'forgotten' - improving relations. Example- Civ A & Z war in Medieval Age, but declare Peace before the end. As soon as one completes the Industrial Age (assuming they remain at peace), the old war memories are gone, and relations improve (other Civs no longer say "we remember how you treated [Civ A]").
Traits: Each Civ has one neutral trait, but also one trait that is exclusive to another. This means certain Civs will always be at some odds (a vegetarian society would look down on a carniverous one, etc).
Other
Combat: Troops over-run forces that are more then an Age old (or even 2). Example- Spearmen are from the Ancient Age, Armor from the Modern Age. Since there are 2 full Ages between them, the spearman is over-run.
Workers: When set to auto, you can toggle which options are okay (ie - auto: road-on, irrigate-on, plant forest-off, etc).
Cities: Abundant supplies can be shared with another city, if a trade route is established?
Just some suggestions...
Here are some thoughts:
Tiles
Landmark Forests: 1 forest tile per city can be designated as a park reserve/national forest. This would only produce commerce & give culture points, but would not produce food or shields, and could not have a railroad or mine built on it.
Forest Planting: Planting forests can help slow global warming. Also see United Nations. This would keep forest chopping for shields in the early ages, but promote forests in later ages.
Bonus Tiles: can be depleted like other resource tiles.
Coastal Waters: Can now contain and be mined for oil by dispatching a new naval unit to it (designers choice) and having it work like a colony does now.
Rivers: Workers can 'dam' a river for many turns. This can only be done once per river & once per city, but would create a 1 tile freshwater source on the tile that was dammed. Workers would be moved to an adjacent square upon completion.
Canal/Bridge: A 1 tile only bridge may be used to connect locations such as the modern day Panama Canal & Bering Straight. The canal can not be adjacent to a city or other canal & must connect 2 water tiles that are opposite of each other in respect to the canaled tile. The bridge would do the same for land, but must take place on a coastal water tile. The bridge could be built by the same new ship that constructs an oil colony (see Coastal Waters)
City tiles: 1 turn delay when moving population from a mined tile to an irrigated tile, and vice versa, in terms of productive gain.
Leaders
Cultural: A Cultural Leader with the ability to rush a Great Wonder (or smaller building), or create a National Monument in a city (one per city max) that gives culture points and adds tourism. This would be tactical in a border city if trying to culture flip a city, raise culture in a newly conquered city, or promote a cultural victory. These leaders would have a chance to spawn from (non-capitol/forbidden capitol cities with an extended 'we love the king' day, winning a war, 'x' turns without corruption, or positive UN action).
Air/Naval: see Air/Naval Elites
Units
Elites: Elite winning units can spawn Great Leaders or can be promoted into 'Special Forces.' These Spec Ops work like Privateers, but on land (ie - no nationality revealed).
Air/Naval Elites: Can become Squadron Leader/Flagship and be treated as Military Great Leaders (ie - build army), with maybe 1 less unit per army then ground troops allow (to keep things reasonable).
Refugees: A city may release a refugee (1 population point) that will migrate to a high cultured neighboring Civ. This would replace or maybe preceed the current Cultural Flip.
Conquered Civ's: Remaining units become Refugees, Barbarians, or neither.
Barbarians/Terrorists: Barbarians can evolve with the times. They will contain units that are '1 step' below that of the average Civ's best unit for their elite spawn, and lesser units for secondary spawn. Their camps can spawn in any land tile not used by a city, even if it's within a country's borders (ie - a culturally gained square). Camps are more likely to spawn next to cities with high corruption, or which were recently conquered.
Land Transports: Helicopter (treated like a land unit traveling a road) that can travel any land square other then mountains & can hold up to 3 units.
Attack Chopper: Apache style chopper (treated like a land unit traveling a road) that can travel any land square other then mountains & coastal waters, and is a Modern combat unit.
Game Features
Civil War: If corruption is too high and there is room for another Civ, a Culturally-Linked Civ will spawn in the corrupt cities. This Civ will take control of those cities. The units inside will be demoted, or left the same but at smaller numbers, or altered to guerillas/other offset units. Since this new Civ will have relations with the other Civs, the relations will be reversed from the Original Civs relations with those Civs (ie - Civ A's allies become enemies to Civ B, and vice versa).
World War (varying on map size/Civ opponents): When multiple Civs are in a large war, there is a chance for it to become a 'World War.'
Example- Let's assume there are 12 Civs in a game. Civ Z invades Civ A, and is therefore noted as the 'aggressor.' Another Civ joins the fight via an Alliance, which team doesn't matter. The other Civ calls forth it's own Alliance, and this continues to a set number. Let's say the number is 6. Once there are 6 Civs involved (assuming there are at least 2 Civs on each side & no same side Civ's are at War), there is a chance for it to become a 'World War.'
(A + B) vs Z
(B + C) vs Z
(A + D) vs Y
A vs (Z + Y)
A, B, C, D are aligned on one side & Z, Y on the other. Since Z was the aggressor, that side is dubbed the 'Axis' & the defending side (based on A) becomes the 'Allies.'
Now say Civ's E, M, N are neutral. Civ E decides to ally with D against Y. Since Y is part of the Axis, and D the Allies - this makes E part of the 'Allies' and are now allied with A, B, C, D against Y, Z. On the other hand, if Civ D allies with M against N, since M/N are not part of the World War, this becomes a separate affair.
Winning Civs gain Culture Leaders (or high chance of).
I know it's a lot to think about, but it's easy in terms of programming - all just IF/THEN scenarios.
Diplomacy
United Nations: Small Wonder or Modern Advancement leads to committee vote. Must contribute 10% of military units to UN (your choice, but in a given time), or lose vote/seat in UN.
UN votes on stopping wars, preventing Civil Wars, Becomes Allies in World Wars, can demand all Civs to set aside x% of land to forests to fight global warming (see above), demand Civ to destroy Nukes, make peace with other Civs or face UN troops (UN works as AI Civ who always forces peace), etc.
Civs: Can trade military units, not just workers. These units are demoted if infantry, armored units trade as is.
Can also demand peace be made by warring Civs (with or without UN).
Techs
Space Victory: Moon base, not spaceship - more realistic.
Satellite: updates 'x'% of map over 'y' time. Small Wonder?
Space Capsule: Small Wonder that works with other Civs capsules. Example- First Capsule is Space Station. Each additional capsule (1 per Civ) connects to International Space Station. This improves relations with those Civs. Each capsule itself also gives a tech bonus (say 5%), plus (say 1%) more per additional Civ capsules added to it (no more then 8% total). Must have a capsule in ISS to make a Moon Base for Space Victory?
Historical Relations: If 2 Civs have been at peace for the extent of at least one full Age, past wars become 'forgotten' - improving relations. Example- Civ A & Z war in Medieval Age, but declare Peace before the end. As soon as one completes the Industrial Age (assuming they remain at peace), the old war memories are gone, and relations improve (other Civs no longer say "we remember how you treated [Civ A]").
Traits: Each Civ has one neutral trait, but also one trait that is exclusive to another. This means certain Civs will always be at some odds (a vegetarian society would look down on a carniverous one, etc).
Other
Combat: Troops over-run forces that are more then an Age old (or even 2). Example- Spearmen are from the Ancient Age, Armor from the Modern Age. Since there are 2 full Ages between them, the spearman is over-run.
Workers: When set to auto, you can toggle which options are okay (ie - auto: road-on, irrigate-on, plant forest-off, etc).
Cities: Abundant supplies can be shared with another city, if a trade route is established?
Just some suggestions...
What about esthetics? At least give us an option of not having a railroad on every square - the Civ II model would be fine. Also would like right clicking a square to show improvements. It would be fantastic on the right click popup if you could drill down to a picklist screen of graphics - i.e. have a choice of mines with dif looks, etc. Firaxis would not have to paint these, there are plenty of modders for that. I would love to have a cotton field on one of those irrigated plains.
Jon Shafer
Civilization 5 Designer
My guess is that Civ IV will be released Christmas of 2006. 2005 is just way too early to be possible.
SuperSipahi
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2004
- Messages
- 19
Thats Great!
I cant wait
I cant wait
SuperSipahi
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2004
- Messages
- 19
Thats Great!
I cant wait
oh i am sorry i am new,
i screwed up in my posting
forgive me
I cant wait
oh i am sorry i am new,
i screwed up in my posting
forgive me
Similar threads
- Poll
