OK, thanks for answering. I wish you to complete this awesome project, one day.
Thank you for expressing interest and providing suggestions.
Civilization Tactical Combat Development Thread (Input/Suggestions Wanted)
- Thread starter LyTning94
- Start date
Thank you for expressing interest and providing suggestions.
I'm looking for suggestions on how to implement air raids in the battle map. Air units won't actually be present in the battle map, but you will be able to call in air raids. I'm thinking of doing something like the following:
1) You choose to call in an air raid and select the tile(s) you want to attack
2) If there are enemy air units over the map, the air unit will attack them
3) Depending on the outcome of the aerial combat (if any), the air unit may attack the selected tile
4) Units will take damage based on the air unit's attacking strength and distance from the selected tile(s)
Any thoughts?
1) You choose to call in an air raid and select the tile(s) you want to attack
2) If there are enemy air units over the map, the air unit will attack them
3) Depending on the outcome of the aerial combat (if any), the air unit may attack the selected tile
4) Units will take damage based on the air unit's attacking strength and distance from the selected tile(s)
Any thoughts?
I think this to be an excellent system, remember me the Bombing Run of Star Wars: Empire at War but improved (air to air combat)
I would add same features like specific buildings/units to be more resistant to bombing/capable of contrasting aircrafts (bunkers, Missile Infantry etc)
This could lead to bomb specific buildings in a city map instead of others, if ever cities would be added in.
I just ask about one doubt I have: how the call function would be balanced? Just to prevent players/AIs to spam bombing instead of ground attack. Time limit? 'Till you have airs?
Thanks for keeping up the good work still for now.
I would add same features like specific buildings/units to be more resistant to bombing/capable of contrasting aircrafts (bunkers, Missile Infantry etc)
This could lead to bomb specific buildings in a city map instead of others, if ever cities would be added in.
I just ask about one doubt I have: how the call function would be balanced? Just to prevent players/AIs to spam bombing instead of ground attack. Time limit? 'Till you have airs?
Thanks for keeping up the good work still for now.
I think this to be an excellent system, remember me the Bombing Run of Star Wars: Empire at War but improved (air to air combat)
I would add same features like specific buildings/units to be more resistant to bombing/capable of contrasting aircrafts (bunkers, Missile Infantry etc)
This could lead to bomb specific buildings in a city map instead of others, if ever cities would be added in.
I just ask about one doubt I have: how the call function would be balanced? Just to prevent players/AIs to spam bombing instead of ground attack. Time limit? 'Till you have airs?
Thanks for keeping up the good work still for now.
I've never played Star Wars: Empire at War so I don't know what their combat is like, but just to clarify things you won't actually control the air combat tactically, it'll be essentially the same as air combat now.
Like you said, some buildings/units will be more resistant to air attacks and you will be able to bomb certain buildings/units strategically.
As for spamming air units, I guess the solution would be for the enemy to build air units of their own to defend the airspace. The air units are really meant for support, so the land units will still have the brunt of the work.
That's exactly SW:EaW mechanic.
Just to explain better, you click "bomb run" button, select position (e.g. enemy building, stack of vehicles) and aircrafts automatically goto target & bomb it.
But I warn, if there were no limit to such feature, you'll surely see aircraft spamming all the time.
In SWEAW they did put a time counter, in Civ we could only rely on aircraft number constant decreasing each time you fly them exposing them to enemy missiles.
Anyway, if we want to prevent aircraft bombs to replace standard ground attack, we have to have a limit on it.
I think your solution is pretty good, I fear the hardest part will be make AI to understand and use it properly.
Just to explain better, you click "bomb run" button, select position (e.g. enemy building, stack of vehicles) and aircrafts automatically goto target & bomb it.
But I warn, if there were no limit to such feature, you'll surely see aircraft spamming all the time.
In SWEAW they did put a time counter, in Civ we could only rely on aircraft number constant decreasing each time you fly them exposing them to enemy missiles.
Anyway, if we want to prevent aircraft bombs to replace standard ground attack, we have to have a limit on it.
I think your solution is pretty good, I fear the hardest part will be make AI to understand and use it properly.
Somehow I'll have to create a timing mechanism that allows the aircraft to stay only for a certain amount of battle map turns (based on the battle plot's distance from the aircraft's base). In these turns the aircraft can attack enemy aircraft, attack enemy units, and bomb cities/improvements.
I'm also adding a new air unit mission (to be called from the strategic map) that allows air units to move to a tile, run the interception mission there for as long as possible, and then return to their base. This will let air units defend the battle plot's airspace even if it's not a city or fort.
I think these two ideas combined will prevent aircraft spamming and allow for fairly realistic combat.
I'm also adding a new air unit mission (to be called from the strategic map) that allows air units to move to a tile, run the interception mission there for as long as possible, and then return to their base. This will let air units defend the battle plot's airspace even if it's not a city or fort.
I think these two ideas combined will prevent aircraft spamming and allow for fairly realistic combat.
I think your first idea to be even better than the flat time limit I knew. More realistic, dinamic, fair. 
But I am a bit skeptical about the 2nd one: how long can an aircraft keep flying without landing to refueling/changing crew? Those are realism issues however, the solution is absolutely needed to effectively protect important tiles.
Good work
But I am a bit skeptical about the 2nd one: how long can an aircraft keep flying without landing to refueling/changing crew? Those are realism issues however, the solution is absolutely needed to effectively protect important tiles.
Good work
The aircraft won't be able to stay at that tile indefinitely; they'll have to return to their base every turn. You could argue that, since turns are (I believe) six months minimum, the aircraft won't be able to stay in flight for nearly that long. On the other hand, though, is it really realistic that they can only fly one mission during that time period?
There may be a better solution out there, I just haven't found it yet.
Arian
No more ghostbusting!!
One month is minimum afaik
Which already is far beyond any realism....
I was thinking about some "call" feature from nearby base. This would allow for both realism and balance to be solved if managed properly.
Just let aircraft to be called in tactical map from nearby tiles as reinforcement just like ground ones.
The only difference is the distance factor for them to be wider, as long as they can fly and are very faster. And how much turns they'll need to arrive.
Basically you could call your planes/helos from whichever city/fort have it, thus considering that the closer tile, the fastest arrive.
Balancing number & position of aircrafts in strategic map to allow the better coverage possible, if you were wise enough to recognize which areas are more "hot" (borders, key assets) you would have a fair game.
The limit would be the impossibility to build more while in tactical combat map - reflecting that hours are passing, not months - so their number will constantly reduce each call and came from farer.
If you were wise enough to have a good air force/anti air ground units/bomb resistan building more than your rival, you truly mehrited victory.
What do you think about this idea?
I was thinking about some "call" feature from nearby base. This would allow for both realism and balance to be solved if managed properly.
Just let aircraft to be called in tactical map from nearby tiles as reinforcement just like ground ones.
The only difference is the distance factor for them to be wider, as long as they can fly and are very faster. And how much turns they'll need to arrive.
Basically you could call your planes/helos from whichever city/fort have it, thus considering that the closer tile, the fastest arrive.
Balancing number & position of aircrafts in strategic map to allow the better coverage possible, if you were wise enough to recognize which areas are more "hot" (borders, key assets) you would have a fair game.
The limit would be the impossibility to build more while in tactical combat map - reflecting that hours are passing, not months - so their number will constantly reduce each call and came from farer.
If you were wise enough to have a good air force/anti air ground units/bomb resistan building more than your rival, you truly mehrited victory.
What do you think about this idea?
This sort of development gets my hearty support. I only wish it were possible to create a tactical combat grid in such a way that it would be multiplayer compatible. (From the sound of it, the loading and reloading would probably ruin that prospect.)
But I want to see this kind of development done. It's very interesting and I'm a big fan of tactical combat.
But I want to see this kind of development done. It's very interesting and I'm a big fan of tactical combat.
I was thinking about some "call" feature from nearby base. This would allow for both realism and balance to be solved if managed properly.
Just let aircraft to be called in tactical map from nearby tiles as reinforcement just like ground ones.
The only difference is the distance factor for them to be wider, as long as they can fly and are very faster. And how much turns they'll need to arrive.
Basically you could call your planes/helos from whichever city/fort have it, thus considering that the closer tile, the fastest arrive.
Balancing number & position of aircrafts in strategic map to allow the better coverage possible, if you were wise enough to recognize which areas are more "hot" (borders, key assets) you would have a fair game.
The limit would be the impossibility to build more while in tactical combat map - reflecting that hours are passing, not months - so their number will constantly reduce each call and came from farer.
If you were wise enough to have a good air force/anti air ground units/bomb resistan building more than your rival, you truly mehrited victory.
What do you think about this idea?
Exactly, you will be able to call in air raids/defense once you get into the battle map, similar to reinforcements. I still think you should have the ability to call in air units in the strategic map before the actual battle, however.
You could even look at it from a different perspective and say that technically the aircraft wouldn't be flying around the tile for a month, they would only be called in for the battle and would thus only be flying around for several hours. If the battle time exceeds the amount of time the aircraft can stay in flight, they will be forced to return to their base.
Thanks for the support! Unfortunately though, like you said, I highly doubt its possible to make this multiplayer due to the saving/loading.
Excellent ideas
I would also note that if tactical map "included" a fort - if the battle took place in a fort in strategic map - the fort owner will have the additional advantage to make their aircrafts land on the fort itself, thus returning in combat very sooner.
To balance this out, AI should be well aware of this feature so to not spam suicidal attacks against well-defended and well-positioned forts if better ways are available.
Also, the AIs would make use of the same advantage if you ever attack a fort of a civ which already has air units.
As long as this is the very particular case of fort tiles only battles, it would not ruin the general rule of calling from distance in non-fort tiles battles.
What do you think about?
Exactly. The same would also apply if the battle took place in a city.
It is the same thing I was thinking of. It's nice to see we share the same ideas
May I add to the list a BIG variable within tactical map? What about SEA tile battles? They should have their own map, imo.
Whenever a battle took place in water an "oceanic" map would load - just sea tiles with the units involved.
If any is carring units in its cargo space, those units may or not contribute depending on their type>weapons>effectiveness.
For istance, base warriors would be pretty useless in ranged (it's hard to imagine they can really launch their wooden rods to enemy ships)
but could be good for boarding actions (performed moving them to the enemy ship tile whenever it is next to their own and watching results).
Multiple assaults would weaken the ship which simulate decimatation of their crew and losing efficiency in maneuvering.
Archers would shot arrows towards enemy ships within a set range, even fire arrows specifically suited for burning wood & sails - a new tech/promotion - and so on within any ground unit.
And returning to the flying part of things, a modern carrier with fighters or bombers can lift them off to intercept really far enemy aircrafts and ships
And so on with missiles, submarines etc.... it would be a HUGE fun.
Just think about a city tile in case city is in a coastal tile. Tactical map could recreate sea tile(s) near the city and its near lands if any.
You build a fleet in strategic map and send it to conquer the enemy city, loading tactical map.
And -wow- you have a sea sourronded city which defenses you can bomb with your naval and aircrafts, missiles, and then unboarding ground units.
Am I going too far?
May I add to the list a BIG variable within tactical map? What about SEA tile battles? They should have their own map, imo.
Whenever a battle took place in water an "oceanic" map would load - just sea tiles with the units involved.
If any is carring units in its cargo space, those units may or not contribute depending on their type>weapons>effectiveness.
For istance, base warriors would be pretty useless in ranged (it's hard to imagine they can really launch their wooden rods to enemy ships)
but could be good for boarding actions (performed moving them to the enemy ship tile whenever it is next to their own and watching results).
Multiple assaults would weaken the ship which simulate decimatation of their crew and losing efficiency in maneuvering.
Archers would shot arrows towards enemy ships within a set range, even fire arrows specifically suited for burning wood & sails - a new tech/promotion - and so on within any ground unit.
And returning to the flying part of things, a modern carrier with fighters or bombers can lift them off to intercept really far enemy aircrafts and ships
And so on with missiles, submarines etc.... it would be a HUGE fun.
Just think about a city tile in case city is in a coastal tile. Tactical map could recreate sea tile(s) near the city and its near lands if any.
You build a fleet in strategic map and send it to conquer the enemy city, loading tactical map.
And -wow- you have a sea sourronded city which defenses you can bomb with your naval and aircrafts, missiles, and then unboarding ground units.
Am I going too far?
I hadn't really given much thought to naval combat as of yet, but I agree that it should have its own battle map. I'm not sure how I'll do the actual naval combat, but I imagine it'll be something along the lines of what you suggested. Air units will also be able to attack enemy ships in the battle map. Plus, if the battle takes place near a coast, there could even be archers on the coast firing on the ships.
In a land battle map, I'm also going to add the possibility for an amphibious invasion (either the main attacking force or reinforcements) which will unload from the ships in the battle map. And again, if the land battle is on a coast, the ship's archers could support the land units by firing on the enemy. If a city was being attacked, the fleet could bombard the city as well.
In a land battle map, I'm also going to add the possibility for an amphibious invasion (either the main attacking force or reinforcements) which will unload from the ships in the battle map. And again, if the land battle is on a coast, the ship's archers could support the land units by firing on the enemy. If a city was being attacked, the fleet could bombard the city as well.
Just a quick update:
1) I added variables for fatigue and morale to the CvUnit class, but as of yet they don't change.
2) I started working on the field air patrol unit mission (see post #26).
3) The necessary land unit info is now written to a file when a unit attacks. This info will be used to reconstruct the units in the battle map later.
4) I gave the mod it's own files for configuring itself and it's base (RevDCM).
In the near future I'll be working on changing the fatigue and morale values (based on the factors in post #10), finishing the field air patrol unit mission, and writing the necessary air unit, sea unit, terrain/improvement, and diplomatic info to files to be reconstructed in the battle map.
1) I added variables for fatigue and morale to the CvUnit class, but as of yet they don't change.
2) I started working on the field air patrol unit mission (see post #26).
3) The necessary land unit info is now written to a file when a unit attacks. This info will be used to reconstruct the units in the battle map later.
4) I gave the mod it's own files for configuring itself and it's base (RevDCM).
In the near future I'll be working on changing the fatigue and morale values (based on the factors in post #10), finishing the field air patrol unit mission, and writing the necessary air unit, sea unit, terrain/improvement, and diplomatic info to files to be reconstructed in the battle map.
