Civilization that rose from barbarians had huge, promoted stack

[Badtz Maru]

I just started a new game of Rise of Mankind with the barbarian civilizations enabled. Not long into the game, it announced that Ragnar arose from one of the nearby barbarian civilizations. I kept building my javelineers, but figured he could not be that big of a threat as I had a head start on him in tech and development. It then said Ragnar had organized the Viking people, and not long after that (a while before 3500 BC) he declared war on me, and then marched into my territory with a stack of 4 spearmen, 3 axes, and two chariots, one of them led by a great general and all units had at least a couple of promotions. He wiped my second city (defended by two javelineers) and I quit before he could finish me off, as loss was certain.

How did he get such a huge stack so fast?

 

[CMKMStephens]

It's an instant bonus I believe, basically to represent peoples that effectively emerge as a 'Civilisation' on the back of a rampaging horde overthrowing all their neighbours and (most probably) absorbing their cities and instituions. The most extreme example would be the Mongols.

 

[dexter_inside]

It's an instant bonus I believe, basically to represent peoples that effectively emerge as a 'Civilisation' on the back of a rampaging horde overthrowing all their neighbours and (most probably) absorbing their cities and instituions. The most extreme example would be the Mongols.

This is the way it has to be, otherwise you'd have crushed them easily

 

[szemek77]

But instead, they crushed him easily

 

[CMKMStephens]

I have far more trouble with barbarian whack-a-mole in early game, though there are exceptions.

In my current game playing with Afforess's 1.51 (for the first time), I had up to 13 Barb spearmen on my borders several times. Basically from the first time the barbs appeared it was constant attacks. Once my pitiful forces (though eventually including 7 axemen) trashed one stack, the next stack of 3-4 of them would pop up. To make matters worse, as has happened to other player, the barbs also started Viking raiding me. Three times while the onslaught on my land border was going on, galleys dumped another couple right beside my cities. Raging barbs is not on, and never is, but the barbs in ROM are always raging. And now they're a bit smarter too.

The exception was however, the first barb city to pop into a civ. A barbarian city on a continent south of mine, but accessable by shallow waters thanks to being only 10 tiles away with an island facilitating it, turned into the Ethiopians. And what happened? They got or they immediately built units for the sole express purpose of crossing the sea and attacking my two largest cities. Their horde stack was immediately piled into 4 galley, and before I knew it, were on my land at war.

 

[cheesemijit]

it may make it harder, but going by the last post doesnt it sound much more historic and fun!

 

[DRJ]

You should prepare for these attacks. a) build more defenders b) position the defensive stack in between border cities c) have some scouting archers on the hills surrounding your lands d) if a barb city is formed KILL them BEFORE THEY ORGANIZE (should be doable with a stack of 6 javs, as newly formed barb cities usually have 2 archers+1spear or so).

 

[dexter_inside]

I have far more trouble with barbarian whack-a-mole in early game, though there are exceptions.

Guess what - the people living in those times also had trouble like that with barbarians... the Chinese wouldn't have bothered building the Wall if everything was fine and dandy

 

[Badtz Maru]

It just seems unfair as there was no way I could have built a stack like that by that time - nine units, three requiring BW and two requiring Charioteering (or whatever the name of that tech was).

 

[DRJ]

It just seems unfair as there was no way I could have built a stack like that by that time - nine units, three requiring BW and two requiring Charioteering (or whatever the name of that tech was).

I understand what you say, avoiding that could happen if the time to organize for civs would be enhanced; nevertheless the newly organized civs often can't build axes or chariots as they lack the resources but get the resource-needing units initially. So, if you survive the initial attack you might end up getting a nice vassal/trading partner/a weak civ giving stability to your own civ by being an easy target for conquests.

 

[zappara]

I understand what you say, avoiding that could happen if the time to organize for civs would be enhanced; nevertheless the newly organized civs often can't build axes or chariots as they lack the resources but get the resource-needing units initially. So, if you survive the initial attack you might end up getting a nice vassal/trading partner/a weak civ giving stability to your own civ by being an easy target for conquests.

This is true.

In fact these new formed civs used to be lot more powerful in earlier RoM versions, in current version the amount of units they get has been cut to 1/3 of the original RevDCM value. They are still powerful enough to conquer city (if it's rebel group without city, they need to be able to take a city). Barbarian civ component goes through set of decision which checks what kind of civ is formed, what techs are given and what units it will get (bonuses aren't checked because at this point the civ might not have cities yet).

 

[Badtz Maru]

I think I realize what the problem was. I'm guessing that the modpack that allows barbarians to organize was not intended to be used in conjunction with the modpack that causes barbarian cities to exist at turn 1. If this had been a barbarian city that had been created around the usual time, in an out-of-the-way place, this would not have been a game-killer. Since the barbarians had a big head start (they usually don't start building cities until much later), they were far too powerful for what is the equivalent of 1500 BC in the unmodded game.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I get them much sooner than 1500BC and I don't have BarbCiv on. I do have Barb City on from Afforess Modmod though as I beta testing his latest incarnation.

There is always a Barb swarm as I call them around 3000BC and you have to endure the Hordes for some time.

Latest one I didn't have a resource for Axeman, so archers and spear against barb Axe lost a prime city and took 4spear and 4 archers to root that lone Barb Axe out. Brought all Empire development to a halt to build more units.

Then the Chinese show up with 6 galleys full of Axe. Doomsville. So to keep the game going, (beta testing remember) I cheated and worldbuilder erased the Chinese Stacks. And this was only on Noble level.

It's a tougher RoM world we live in now.

JosEPh

 

[mussbu]

it may make it harder, but going by the last post doesnt it sound much more historic and fun!

Agreed, would love to have a game like that. My configuration w/2.8 and Afforess's mod must be wrong, because I rarely get invaded. Barb's yes - but minor or major civs no. I got my first great general in ~ 1300 AD. Was only attacked twice. I have on 'aggressive civs' but it doesn't seem to mean anything. I wonder if its possible to have shorter wars (1 to 5 turns) but more often? A state of relations that borders more on constant skirmishing & truce, but rarely peace?

 

[Carwyn]

The whole barb city/civ thing has been quite the challenge and (we're playing 2.71 multiplayer) will sometimes take one of us out very early on. You just start a new game and get on with it! You do learn some tricks to keep them back a bit. I'm NOT playing with barb civ on, seems there is a big enough challenge without it. Maybe we'll get brave and turn on raging barbs though. We play at Monarch and have turned off tech trading to make it more challenging as the game develops.

 

[DavidB1111]

The few times I've ran into barb civilizations, they've fell rather fast due to the fact they only became civilized by the time I had rifleman.
Needless to say, that was um, bad for the barbs.

That said, it was the only time a Barb city ever turned into a civ on me. Maybe I'm just lucky, or the easiest difficulty has a bonus or something...

 

[Humakty]

Seeing as well you do fare on the easiest difficulty level, you should maybe take it up a notch. It will add a little spice to the late game. (The gap between AIs and humans tends to get bigger the more you advance in the game.)

 

[Erii]

Sometimes, if I know early-on that I'm going to have problems with barbs, or even a neighboring civ, I make it a point to hurry to archery and keep a stack of 3-4 archers inside my border cities. It also helps if you're Abyssian or Malinese, I believe it is, with racial archers having 4 strength. As for the option for barbarians starting with a city, and barbarians turning into minor civs, I'd expect trouble before the game and definitely go with one of those races.

Oh, and if anyone reading this thread is having problems with barbs themselves, a mad dash to the Great Wall does make a difference, but remember that once they become a minor civ, they bring ladders along.

 

[Humakty]

Having 'horse' units truly helps when you're surrounded by hostiles, be it civs or barbs, and also in cases when you have a sprawling empire. You'll be able to quickly reinforce your endangered cities, and even pull up a counter attack before or after ennemy onslaught. Mobility is key.

If you don't have horses, siege engines are good to weaken ennemy stacks, having a few in endangered cities is precious too. But they come late.

I agree malinese is top notch, but at first it was their traits I noticed. Financial/Scientific ! I love it !

 

[Supercheese]

I like the Romans with their 9 Str Praetorians, they make mincemeat of barbs . Plus their +25% GPP UB is pretty slick as well.