Clan (AI controlled)/Patch M/Deity

[Humakty]

Considering the cost of warrens, when I need to wage an early war, I indeed skip training yard, and go straight for wolf rider rush. Anyway I wouldn't rush with the Embers if I had space to expand and/or copper.

As or the economy, I do build elder councils (to hook up pitifull research)/market place (to afford the tons of cities I can spam) in every city. Granaries/smokehouses often are required too. Coastal cities will need lighthouses/horbors sooner or later....etc

All of those are needed, 'cause I play big maps, and so usually choose to go to war rather late, that is after I get to StW. Which can be long to get to if you don't develop a little.

I admit ogres are an asset, but you'll get to them after AIs get their champions (at least I do on Emperor ), and you can't upgrade anything to them, which delays the period I can effectively field them.

All in all, in my experience (Big maps), Embers are a contradiction : you've got painfully slow research (-35 % total, compared to much standard Bannor), but you need rather late game techs to get your nice ogres. That's why I mostly rely on adepts/mages, which are in my mind the best thing the Embers gets. Two fireballs for the cost of one ! If only they had an arcane leader... Well Sheelba gives nice promo/xp bonuses (by midgame)

 

[a_civilian]

Well, I play Large maps too and I almost never build granaries, smokehouses, lighthouses, or harbors, as Clan or any other civilization. Three of those are health buildings, not needed until late in the game. (Their other effects are minor in most cases.) As for lighthouse, it's almost always better to work land tiles than sea, so it's usually just +1 food for each water bonus you're working.

 

[Humakty]

Food kept on growth can really help when using conquest, but maybe I do develop too much too soon... I'm conforted in doing so by the additional prod you get on units with warrens. Anywway, I won't outnumber AIs.

 

[Emptiness]

Warrens are really good when you start pumping adepts ! fireballs everywhere ! It is less jucy production wise in late game, because of the prod cost of ogres.

How good Warrens are has nothing to do with what unit you are building in the city (excluding, of course, units that aren't doubled by Warrens). You spend X s on a unit, and you get a free unit worth X s. Warrens don't become less effective later in the game - there are still plenty of units available to be built that can be doubled by a Warrens. The production cost of Ogres doesn't impact the efficacy of Warrens, because the buy-one-get-one-free ratio holds true at any production cost.

 

[Humakty]

I just mean that, thanks to the starting manas Embers do get (fire,body,nature), to pursue a mage heavy strategy is always very profitable. Having stocks of this very frail, and costly unit is much interesting. Because of the cost of ogres, pursuing a melee unit strategy is not that interesting (your + 100 % is applied on 270 hammer, not 180)(even if ogres bodyguard could frighten the best of assassins). Warrens open up much more possibilities than just having double the army you would pull up with anoher civ.

 

[Emptiness]

Oh, I agree that Clan Mages can be good. If you want the feel of an Arcane leader for the Clan, use Jonas and Savants. Your Mages will have Potency, but also Medic I and Mobility for free, and are cheaper to build (a Savant costs 2/3 the s of an Adept). You just have to be patient until the Savant reaches level 4 and can be upgraded to a Mage.

 

[Humakty]

This one is viciously good ! You'll need some adepts initially, but one per stack should be enougth.