Classic 34: First Spoiler (end of ancient age)

[gozpel]

Open 1.27

This was a dream for a builder like me and I concentrated on expansion for most of the time, except for a very brief war with Carthage. I took their capitol and got Utica for peace. The 5 slaves I got by taking the first city made it easy for me to expand, as they roaded the way.

Techwise I was the only one researching, I got Maths from a civ far away, but that was it. The rest except some first tier tech I research myself. No, I got HBR too from the AI.

I found 4 huts: settler, CB, maps and 25g.

1000bc I had 18 towns and 32 pop
1 granary and 6 barracks
7 workers and 5 slaves
8 archers
5 techs from MA

I only added 4 more towns before MA.

Mind you, one city flipped to Persia when I settled aggresively!

Got into Republic 610bc and after some more self-research (incl Lit) I entered Middle Ages 290bc.

At this point I'm stacking up horses to grab some more lands. I voluntarily let the AI build up nice cities for me to take, so I can save the settlers

Darn foreign civ built Pyramids and I have to gift Lit to Egypt to help them along.

I was thinking of domination or conquest, but the Predators will beat me to that, so it will probably be space or diplo for me. Not sure yet.

The lack of barbarians kinda felt good for once, but I miss the training camps.

 

[Offa]

Open 1.27


I found 4 huts: settler, CB, maps and 25g.

1000bc I had 18 towns and 32 pop
1 granary and 6 barracks
7 workers and 5 slaves
8 archers
5 techs from MA

Nooooo! Can this be true! 18 cities at 1000bc.
Please, please explain. Details, I want details.

 

[alamo]

That's pretty amazing. I bet you had a couple of demands for tribute.

I would expect the AI to be sharpening their swords as we speak.

 

[AlanH]

That free settler did it - if he got that first, as indicated in the list, he was off and running way ahead of the rest of the pack. I thought I did well with 5 huts for CB, HBR, Myst and two empties, but I think I'd trade all of that for his early settler, given the poor food start.

 

[denyd]

GOTM 34 Spoiler # 1 - Open class

Mursilis once again settled into the stasis pod and prepared for launch. He was happy to hear the Theodora had resumed fighting and was reporting a future that might allow her to escape that quagmire she had been dropped onto. “I’m sure glad that wasn’t me,” he thought to himself as the captain started the final launch countdown.

“Interesting place we’ve landed this time,” was the first thought that came to Mursilis as he peered out the view port of the chamber. He as happy to find that he had been granted a scout this time and sent Timon (as he dubbed him) to the south in search of neighbors. “That spot over there, looks like a good place to settle” he said pointing southwest and so it was that Zimbabwe was founded next to an abandoned winery on a river and Mursilis once again began his quest for Alpha Centauri.

Timon almost missed the little village nestled on the southern side of the mountain and was delighted to find that the nomads wanted to join the fledgling Zulu empire. As the nomads left to the north, Timon headed south and met a worker of the Carthaginian Tribe. Pleasantries were exchanged, but no deals could be struck due to the high price Carthage’s leader, Hannibal, placed on his knowledge.

Nala, Timon’s sister had been overjoyed to be selected to follow in her brother’s footsteps as a scout for the growing Zulu empire. She rewarded the trust shown in her by the leader with the knowledge of Ceremonial Burial obtained from a band of camped nomads. Nala would repeat her scientific success later and add Horseback Riding to the Zulu skills.

Pumba, the brother of Timon & Nala, had traveled for a couple of lonely days, when he met a Persian warrior and settler. At last a leader willing to deal fairly he thought. Soon, the wisdoms of Alphabet, Masonry and Bronze Working were being added to Zulu Book of Wisdom. Nala was not as fortunate as her brother as her contacts with the Egyptian peoples found them to be scientifically challenged.

With the founding of the third Zulu city, Mursilis made the decision that he was going to need a military to tame these wild lands and ordered the new city to construct a barracks for training of troops.

Eight highly trained Zulu archer units waited at the Persian border for daybreak. The animosity between the two nations had been building since the rejection of the Persian demand for the science of Mysticism and now at the behest of their leader, Shaka (as Mursilis was now known), they moved to battle as the war was declared.

The Archers mourned the loss of one of their company, but the day had been a success as they stood in the town square of Pasagarde and looked at the terrified peasants. With the news of the death of his attack force of warriors still ringing in his ears, Xerxes was glad to give up the knowledge of Writing to regain peace with the mighty Zulu nation. As the archers moved south, the people of Pasagarde, decided that resistance was futile and happily began working as part of the Zulu nation.

The company of Archers, now ten strong looked at the newly settled Egyptian city of Elephantine and knew that it would not withstand their fury. The Declaration of War from Shaka caught the Egyptian Queen by surprise. Cleopatra soon was sitting in her remaining city of Alexandria, with the cities of Elephantine, Memphis and Heliopolis now in ruins and her capital of Thebes controlled by the fearsome Zulu Archers, and waiting for the inevitable.

“With these new weapons, no land can withstand the might of our armies” Shaka proclaimed as he christened the four new swordsmen companies.

“Talk about boring duty” the Archer commander said. “We sit here for days with the other two companies, then an Egyptian units wanders out, we kill it and go back to throwing the bones waiting for the next one. I wish we had been added to the Persian assault force, they’ll be seeing some action soon”.

The swordsmen had been marching for three days when they spied the spires of Persepolis in the distance. The skirmish that followed would hardly qualify as a war and with his army outclassed, Xerxes sadly retreated to the coastal city Susa and ceded his other city, Arbela to the Zulu and peace once again returned to island of the four nations.

The next 900 years passed peaceably, with only the celebration of the Forbidden Palace in Bapedi and the news of wonders built in other lands to break up the day-to-day monotony.

“Those pyramids in Carthage would look very nice with a Zulu flag at their point” thought Shaka “but let’s wait for them to add something else to the reward list. After all, they are building two other wonders”

Alas, Carthage was unable to get one of the wonders they strived for as Mecca built The Colossus. The completion of the Great Wall in Carthage would someday provide another gift for Shaka, to revenge the pair of blackmails that Carthage has previously forced upon Shaka.

A final deal to acquire currency would usher the Zulu empire in the Middle Ages with control of the entire central and northern segments of the continent. As the Zulu Empire emerged from 5 years of anarchy as the Zulu Republic and began researching Engineering, the first part of this tale comes to a close. See you all in the next spoiler thread as Shaka consolidates complete control of the continent.

 

[Skydance]

Civgeek? You say you want to "slingshot" some techs by delaying contact with the other civs, but then you talk about using your GA to build Bach's Cathedral. You have to go through Education to get to Bach, thus nullifying your Great Library / "slingshot" effect. Right?

Hello, all. This will be my first post. I have learned more about Civ in the last 8 days than I ever imagined there was to know, and all it's done is made me more aware of my shortcomings as a player! I guess Rome wasn't built in a day. Zimbabwe?

Preamble

I want to thank everyone for their excellent writeups under GOTM 33. I had downloaded 33 (on Predator class), and then given up on it when I got hit with the barbarian uprising before 1000 BC. Such a newb!

I love Expansionist civs, and when I saw GOTM 34, I decided to give it another go (this time, at Open level). After playing through to the middle ages, I spent a couple days reading the GOTM 33 writeups, and I was stunned. So that's how Civ is played!

I'll post a "short" description of my AA, but I won't include all the detail in my notes. I doubt anyone would learn much from it, although I'll try to sketch out the entertaining bits.

Disclaimer: I've replayed the AA several times in the past week, after reading the GOTM 33 threads, using a much more aggressive approach. It definitely produces a much stronger MA position. I mention that here, because I'm going to be fuzzy on some of the AA details for the "non-spoiled" game. I don't have my notes with me right now.

Opening Moves

First order of business was locating some bonus food. Wines on plains wasn't going to cut it. Scout S+S to the hills revealed a lot of territory, but no bonuses. Worker N followed the river, but didn't help. Settler W to reveal the river in that direction.

My second turn didn't help any: Scout W-W reveals more grass south of my settler, but still no food. Worker N discovers a hut. I could have moved my Settler W again, but I didn't want to get closer to those mountains (and further from my Wines), so I decided to plop down where I was and use Scouts to find bonus food for my second city.

Zimbabwe founded 3950 BC. Build order Scout, Scout, Settler. [I switched the Settler build to a Granary, because my first Scout popped a goodie hut that gave up a Settler.]

NOTE: I usually take 3 cities before building a granary. I went for two in this case, because the granary was saving me 10 turns per settler. In retrospect, however, I should have finished out that first Settler. The granary produced 2 population in 10 turns, but two cities produce 4 population in 20 turns, so there really wouldn't have been any difference food-wise. I'm not even sure I should have ever built a granary at all.

Research was initially set to Alphabet at 40 turns, because I didn't have access to any tier-2 techs. I figured I should go Alphabet -> Mapmaking, just in case I was on an island.

The third turn for my Scout landed me Ceremonial Burial from a goodie hut, though, so I abandoned my one turn of research on Alphabet to start a 40-turn research on Mysticism. (I would eventually complete it as a monopoly tech, and I think I used it as part of my trade for Writing.)

Early Play

First Scout continued SW (hitting Egypt, and popping the bonus Settler from a hut Cleo didn't find).
Second Scout went north to pop the hut on the coast, then followed that coast SE to Carthage.
Third Scout went NW and bumped into Persia.

I got very lucky with techs on my goodie huts. I don't remember the specifics, but I know my 4 huts gave up 3 techs plus the Settler, so the game handed me the keys to a strong start. I didn't do much with it.

Southern Plantations

For my second city, I chose to settle between the two Wheat squares in the south. This wasn't my palace, so I wanted to work with a 1 square radius, and couldn't use the Cows without a fully expanded radius.

Corruption was a hassle, but I boosted my shields by chopping forests. I think I had three forest squares available in radius, applying 10 shields each to my first three settlers produced there.

Between the granary in the north and the Wheat in the south, I was able to get up to 8 cities fairly quickly, while maintaining enough military strength that no one declared war on me.

I think this was the game where a pair of units in the south choke-point (one of which was my second Scout) held off any attempts by Egypt to advance East. One unit sat in the choke point itself, and a second one skipped north-and-south behind it, preventing the settler from moving around my stationary unit. (I used 3 units in most of my other games. The two-unit approach caused her to keep trying for 20 or 30 turns, whereas a three-unit block convinced her to drop the city right there on the choke point, and send any further settlers north into Persian territory.)

The War

When I hooked up Iron around 500 BC, I upgraded to a force of around 10 Swordsmen (and several Impi). I marched on Carthage, triggering my Golden Age with an Impi victory. I knew I was still in Despotism, but this gave me a strong economy for turning out more military, and I don't fight much, so I thought I was going to need it. Newb mistakes!

Victories came quick and clean, and I was amazed what a few Swordsmen could do to fortified Numidians! After taking Carthage, however, I headed West through the tundra, and later was forced to turn the entire force around and come back to the East for mopping up his last cities. I let the war drag on for over 20 turns, due to my inexperience.

Making it to the Middle Ages

I'll have to check my notes, but I advanced to the Middle Ages sometime between 100 and 250 AD. I held the entire SE section of the continent, probably a dozen cities, and it was already clear I wouldn't be losing this game (although I wouldn't be picking up a GOTM medal, either).

Looking Forward

Persia will be my next target. Both Persia and Egypt have been expanding to the north, and I hope to engage Egypt in an alliance vs. Persia. I will take the cities west of Zimbabwe, while Cleo skirmishes in the north.

And this next campaign, I won't leave myself in a position of wandering back and forth with 1-movement Swordsmen!

 

[CKS]

PTW 1.27f, OPEN

I decided to pick a victory condition from the beginning since we're at regent. Usually for the GOTM my goal is either don't lose by conquest or win by any means. This has led to situations where I could have done much better if I'd had some direction earlier on. Anyway, the pregame discussion suggested a 20K culture win, and that's what I headed for. Now I'm near the end of my game and this is working out well. My win date will be pretty close to 2000 AD, but this will probably be better, score-wise, than the domination or diplomatic wins I could get around 1915, and I'm in no danger of losing to any of my rivals. In GOTM 32 I decided on 100K culture too late, and ended up having to launch my space ship about three turns before I reached 100K to avoid a spaceship loss.

I moved my settler one step SW and founded Zimbabwe. I built 2 scouts, a warrior, and a granary before starting a settler. I met the Carthaginians in 3700 BC, trading warrior code and pottery for alphabet and 10g. I meet the Persians in 3400, trading alphabet for bronze working, masonry, and 10g. I had been researching bronze working, now I start writing at max. I want to get to literacy fast so I can build the Great Library (which I don't get, in the end) and other libraries. I'm the clear tech leader from here on out, and trading goes well, but I don't capitalize on my lead and get wonders in my 20K city.

I did okay on hut popping. First ceremonial burial, then maps, then a settler near Egypt, then mysticism, last a warrior. Unfortunately, I don't move the settler much and Ulundi flips to Eqypt in 1700 BC. I was unhappy.

Finally I get Bapedi built in 2350. It is on the coast and will be my 20K city. It starts the Colossus. I probably should have built a temple first. I didn't make good building choices early on, and I had no early leaders to help. I finished the Colossus in 900 BC, a temple in 800 BC (rushed, which was dumb), the Great Lighthouse in 10 AD (I lost out on the Oracle by 6 turns, probably because I didn't replace the population I lost by stupidly rushing the temple), and a library in 170 AD. The middle ages went a lot better.

In 1830 BC Carthage demands contact with Persia. I give in, but they declare war in 1700 BC anyway. They destroy Hlobane in 1675 BC and I catch one of their settlers shortly thereafter. I was very worried about this, and I couldn't get anyone else to join me in my fight. This worked out okay, as later I didn't have any alliances to keep me in the war. I got out of the war pretty early on, paying for peace and then trading for iron working with them.

By 1000 BC I had a whopping 4 cities with 12 people, 5 warriors, 3 archers, 2 scouts, 3 workers, and 2 captured workers. Losing Hlobane and Ulundi didn't help matters, but my early expansion still isn't good. At least this month I can blame it on making Bapedi my 20K city.

In 110 BC I learned monarchy. I'd wanted it mostly for the Hanging Gardens, which I didn't get built, but I revolted immediately out of despotism. I got a one turn anarchy (or two turns, I'm not sure how it counts, but the first I heard of it, it was just one more turn). That was so nice I've stayed in monarchy for the whole game.

Around 200 AD I was feeling back in control, and so I declared war on Egypt, who had a weak army compared to mine. This war went very smoothly, so I probably waited far to long to start it. I'm pretty sure I started this with archers, getting access to local iron by taking it from them. I also entered the middle ages around this time, so I'll stop here.

In summary, things go smoothly since this is a regent level game, but I make plenty of mistakes and I'm not agressive enough. I'll beat the AI handily and stay firmly in the bottom half of the field of submitters.

 

[gozpel]

I want details.

What AlanH said. I got a settler west of town very early. This new town built 2 settlers for me, so that's 3 extra towns. Then as always, I build settlers in most towns when they reach pop 3. It's nothing magic with it, just to focus on getting those settlers out and to let any city build them, Without the free settler I would have around 15 towns I guess.

 

[Drazek]

Open PtW 1.27f

Decided to play open, hopefully scouts will give enough advantage. Regent means AI is pretty worthless, but I hoped to gain some AA techs by gifting them techs early. That partially worked, I got some techs while raising treasury for sword upgrades. On Regent horsemen can be enough to kill everyone, so there's not much research needed if conditions are right. I didn't get horses hooked up early enough, Carthage got nearest one so I started with swords and then switched ASAP (which was way late) to horsemen.

1000 BCE stats:
11 towns, 10 workers, 9 warriors, 1 galley (already 1 sank). Missing Math, Construction, Currency, HBR, Polytheism, Monarchy. Still 5 turns anarchy until Republic, and I have 2nd core going. Built FP in the original region in 1075 BCE, which is early for me. Jumped palace south to a cow.

Entered MA in 470 BCE. At that time I had 25 towns, 12 workers, 10 swords, 1 galley and 2 impis. Fighting against Carthage. Going to trigger GA soon. FP&Palace built markets/libraries, others just barracks, horsemen and some ships from this on. In 10 CE I had over 60 horsemen...

Oh, about expansionist advantage. Well, I got a settler and a far away town from them, so it went ok.

 

[Skydance]

Hmm. It occurs to me that this thread is a discussion of opening strategies, and I've been replaying the opening a lot, so it might be interesting to mention my favorite. Also, I've seen Ainwood ask what we'd do differently, if we knew more when we started.

The fish square to the west of Zimbabwe is in land-locked water, so it's actually a bonus food square in Despotism! I haven't seen anyone mention making use of this, although I did see Randy settled there with Mpondo (4th city?). (Heh. I'll bet Sir Pleb jumps on it.)

Here's how my favorite start on this board goes:

1. Settler W, plant in 3950, just like before. It seemed like valid strategy for revealing nearby land, with a valid result, and I saw no reason it should change.

2. Build Scout, Scout, Warrior, Settler.

3. Early scouting "reveals" the fish. (It's almost impossible to miss them, really, unless you purposely avoid touching the water to your west.)

4. Plant Ulundi at the base of the river, next to the fish. This is W-W-NW-NW of Zimbabwe, and starts an RCP5 ring around our capital. (Second and third cities on the ring should go southerly and easterly, to prevent enemy civs from crowding us.)

Ulundi has bonus grassland SW, and using a worker to clear the forest W of Ulundi (+10 shields for granary or settler) reveals a second bonus grassland. Combined with the plains SE-SE makes a workable 8-turn settler pump.

Zimbabwe, meanwhile, needs a barracks (not a granary). It will turn out veteran Archers for early conquest (and to keep our neighbors from getting too many ideas before we're ready for that conquest). Each time Zimbabwe reaches 4 pop, it spits out a settler, and all our other cities spit out Settlers as much as possible.

 

[Civgeek]

Civgeek? You say you want to "slingshot" some techs by delaying contact with the other civs, but then you talk about using your GA to build Bach's Cathedral. You have to go through Education to get to Bach, thus nullifying your Great Library / "slingshot" effect. Right?

Uuuumm ..... (consulting hastily scribbled notes) good point. I guess I was thinking use the GA to speed building Sistine Chapel and then start a pre-build for Bach's assuming at least two of the unknown civs will have researched Music Theory before I contact them. Perhaps a bit optimistic on my part. Actually, I'm not sure delaying conact is that good an idea at this point, but thats for the next spoiler as these are all just plans at the moment and we all know what happens to the best laid plans .....

 

[klarius]

@Skydance
I don't like your favourite opening.
You have to invest a terrible lot of worker turns to get one city, which can churn out a settler in 8 instead of 10 turns.
At the same time you keep Zimbabwe small, forfeiting all this nice commerce due to the river tiles.
Setting up for RCP5 also blocks the best coastal positions.

 

[Civgeek]

Finally I get Bapedi built in 2350. It is on the coast and will be my 20K city.

Do you have a screen shot (or could you be a little more specific) about where you settled Bapedi? I had a hard time trying to decide where to put my 20K city so I'm curious where you settled.

 

[Skydance]

@Skydance
I don't like your favourite opening.
You have to invest a terrible lot of worker turns to get one city, which can churn out a settler in 8 instead of 10 turns.
At the same time you keep Zimbabwe small, forfeiting all this nice commerce due to the river tiles.
Setting up for RCP5 also blocks the best coastal positions.

I'm sure you're right, but I'm afraid I don't know what you mean.

Ulandi has a BG and bonus food available the moment it's planted. Clearing the forest gives +10 shields, so it's hard to think of it as a waste of time (unless there are more BG around to be worked). Mining a BG is the single best use of worker turns I know, so that can't be what you're saying. Maybe you thought I was going to clear jungle? Or is it really because I'm clearing two forest squares that you feel like I'm using too many worker turns?

The position NE-NE-E-E of my Zimbabwe spot is RCP5, and shares access to the river, so the river doesn't go to waste. Also, you could let Zimbabwe expand to 5/6, but that delays another city from getting placed. If Zimbabwe had a food bonus, then yeah, the delay would be short, but we're talking about 20 turns here (or delaying 15 turns when you build a granary, which could have been 3 additional veteran archers).

Maybe I should do a QSC mock-up on this one, and it will be easier for you to point to specific turns and choices which are holding me back? That actually sounds very educational ...

 

[klarius]

@Skydance
I had a granary in Zimbabwe by 3000BC with one forest chop. I made a relatively fast settler after that, but later Zimbabwe could already do 2 vet archers and a settler in 10 turns just requiring 3 mined tiles at size 3-5.

Because I was researching very fast to republic another town with only one bonus would have never caught up until then and afterwards food bonuses are anyways not needed.

You have to cut two forests, mine and should also road through a jungle.

 

[Demiurge]

1.29: Predator

Given the level of this game I figured its finally time I got my feet wet on predator level. Since one of the predator handicaps makes us single-trait, militaristic, I've decided to go for a conquest.

Initial moves
The starting spot obviously isn't optimal for growth, but due the lack of a scout, I sent my worker to one of the wines. Seeing nothing promising, I decided to settle on the spot. I set a build to warrior and decided on an initial build order of 3 warriors, barracks, archer, settler, granary. I also decided at this point to research at all possible speed toward monarchy.

Exploration
I sent my first warrior to the hill south and he then followed the line of hills and mountains, westward. My second warrior went north and my third south. My first goodie huts were found in 3500 bc on the same turn (one north, one west). They yielded bronze working and barbs, who promoted a warrior to elite. In 2850 bc, my warrior south and my elite warrior west spot 2 more goodie huts. One hut yielded barbs, again a warrior was promoted to elite, one hut near the chokepoint, a settler. My warriors contacted Persia in 3200 bc and Egypt and Neocarthage in 2670 bc.

My initial exploration routes:

2550 bc
My first settler was built. Not seeing a settler factory close by, I decided to build at RCP3 and sent him to a location northeast near the whales. My free hut settler was still moving toward the incense to settle them.

At this point I had some interesting decisions to make. My elite warrior south and west were next to the Egyptian and Neocarthagian capitols. Those cities still being defended by regular warriors. After weighing the options, I decided to attack despite the rep hit I might take. My first attacks killed one warrior and revealed another. The next turn I figured it was worth a chance to attack again since my elites still had 4 hp each. I probably should have just pillaged, because both lost.

2310 bc
Having decided to play this game as aggressively as possible, I decided to attack Persia with two warriors next and really mix things up. That time however, success, Persepolis joined my slowly growing empire. I couldn't find the new Persian capitol so I offered peace only a couple of turns later. By 2070 bc, I was again at peace with everyone having claimed two cities, one Neocarthagian, one Persian and some workers.

1470 bc
I had finally located the Persians again and found that they now had two cities. Having also spotted two Persian settler pairs and desperately needing workers, I declared on them again taking both. By 1425 bc, two vet warriors attacked Susa and defeat a Persian spear, burning it to the ground.

1400 bc
I learned poly and gifted Egypt and Neocarthage mysticism, then traded poly for IW, wheel and writing. Now knowing the location of both iron and horses, I found that the Neocarthage city I captured had horses. Although they were no where near being connected yet. Unfortunately, the settler I popped from the hut just missed the iron in the SW when I settled the incense near the choke. The good news was that my incense city was almost connected and I would be able to settle the iron quickly.

1075 bc
I declared war on Egypt again since they wouldn't let me through their choke city territory to get to the Persians, resulting in me burning Alexandria to the ground. In 1025 bc I finally attacked Parsargadae with 7 warriors killing 5 but capturing the city and delivering a death blow to the Persians.

1000 bc
By 1000 bc I had only settled 5 towns but I had another from a hut and 3 captured. I was really happy to have the Persians gone by this time and not have to face their mercs later. I still hadn't hooked up iron or the horses although I had 2 workers on the iron and 2 roading from the horses back to my core. I had several elite victories but still hadn't generated a leader yet.

The tech pace was slow due to my warmongering and the level. While I got a few techs from the ai, most of the research had to be done by hand. I had been researching at max capacity throughout and monarchy was due in 6. My slaves had been roading back to my core so my cities were nearly connected but my core wasn't as developed as I would have liked it to have been.

My world at 1000 bc:

1000 bc stats
9 cities (3 captured, 1 hut settler)
1 settler
13 workers (9 slaves)
19 warriors
3 archers
3 impis
5 barracks
1 granary

I was first in score with 167

850 bc
I granted peace to the Egyptians and learned monarchy which I promptly traded to Neocarthage for map making and their world map allowing me to build suicide galleys to find the other civs. I underwent a 2 turn anarchy, finished hooking up my iron, and upgraded 10 warriors. Since Neocarthage had been helping with the research a little, I decided to attack Egypt again by 710 bc, the same year I hooked up my horses.

570 bc
I traded Neocarthage math for philosophy and learned HBR. I also made a successful suicide run with my first galley and contacted all the other civs. In the subsequent round of trades I got contacts as well as code of laws and world maps. Knowing the other civs, I decided to push the fight against Neocarthage as well. I took one city and advanced a stack of warriors and an archer (still going max research so I had no cash for upgrades) on the Neocarthagian capitol.

250 bc
After capturing three cities and burning one, I granted peace to Egypt. Not having made much headway against Neocarthage and having found that they built the pyramids, I gave them peace till I could assemble a large enough force to guarantee taking it. My first GL was also created during this turn and would rush my FP in the south between Neocarthage and my core in 190 bc, when I entered the MA.

My world in 190 bc:

 

[Skydance]

@Klarius
Okay, I think I see what you're saying. The squares around Zimbabwe develop faster than the ones around the Fish, so they give a faster return on your investment.

However, you've got a strong head-start with the settler you popped from the goodie hut (3600 BC), and considering that, it looks to me like the fish-based investment eventually pays off. If you count my settler as a pop point, you'd have 50% more cities, 66% more pop, (40% more shields?), and about twice as many workers at 1000 BC ... that being the result from having 50% more population and 50% more land at 3400 BC.

Fish-based QSC:
6 cities, 1 settler, 11 pop
1 granary, 2 barracks
8 archers, 9 warriors, 3 workers, 2 slaves

Your result with the bonus settler:
9 cities, 20 pop
3 granaries, 3 barracks, 1 temple
5 archers, 3 warriors, 8 workers + 1 foreign, 2 galleys

Your handling of the tech was an order of magnitude better than mine, and I'm looking forward to trying a couple variations on this. Thanks!

 

[alamo]

Welcome to the forum, Skydance!

I've never seen the first few posts coming out so strong, especially in a GOTM thread.

Give'em heck, just don't critique my game

I had a despotic GA, too. Even despots can have a good time.

 

[Randy]

@ Skydance you can critique my game I don't care. klarius all ready gave me a nice tip to do next time with a sci. AI.

Nice posts.

 

[Skydance]

*laughs* It's my own "favorite start" we're critiquing, so don't read too much into it. I'm well aware you guys have reasons for everything you're doing; I just want to find out what they are, so I can play better too.

Thanks for the warm welcome!