Cleopatra is Not Bad

[kb27787]

I don't think it's wise to give Egypt or anyone a strong one per city improvement if it comes early like the sphinx. Maybe if it got progressively better as you advance through the civics and technology tree. An early hockey arena or open air museum would be broken when you only work a few tiles per city.

*cough* terrace farms *cough*

The most broken UI in the game which you get at the very start. If the devs consider this balanced, I'd say adding a further 1 food and 1 production to the sphinx shouldn't make it that imbalanced.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

Yep, the flood mitigation is especially powerful on my favourite distaster setting - 4.

They were never a top teir one, but that flood immunity is now really good

Is that because flood damage is overpowered and severely crippling? What about the 2 turns in a row 1000 year floods that semi frequently happen killing units and builders? This can happen on Disaster intensity 1 and 2. Early disaster is just brutal in GS right now.

 

[UWHabs]

Yeah, I'm not saying make it like a +6 culture tile in the ancient era, but you could do something like take its current bonuses and give it something like +2 culture and +2 faith per adjacent wonder, or have it give +1 food to adjacent farms, or something along that line. Enough that that you're going to want to place them and spam them as much as you can when you get a chance, since right now they're definitely more of an improvement that you might want a couple of them down early on, but after that, aren't much use of a tile improvement except in places that you literally can't put anything else down.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

+ 0.5 culture per INT trade route

 

[Jkchart]

Agree completely. Egypt are good as is, but the points above are spot on.

Egypt and China are the top of my list for Civs deserving of alt leaders. Both Civs have such long and interesting histories. A good alt leader could really bring out different aspects of these Civs (although, you know, I’m still pretty keen with Lizzie for England...).

Egypt and China absolutely need alt leaders. The best candidates.

I'm not sure England will get another leader since they have two already and they're being so selective (and a bit paltry, sadly) with alternate leaders.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Egypt and China absolutely need alt leaders. The best candidates.

I'm not sure England will get another leader since they have two already and they're being so selective (and a bit paltry, sadly) with alternate leaders.

China, Egypt, Rome.

 

[Jkchart]

China, Egypt, Rome.

Rome would be a great choice, too.

 

[Sostratus]

Is that because flood damage is overpowered and severely crippling? What about the 2 turns in a row 1000 year floods that semi frequently happen killing units and builders? This can happen on Disaster intensity 1 and 2. Early disaster is just brutal in GS right now.

On disaster 4 it basically feels like every volcano is always active and floods on a given river are frequent. On that setting the flood protection is massive. But dams come soon enough that it's functionally not quite the same as like, early mountain tunnels or something.

Yeah, I'm not saying make it like a +6 culture tile in the ancient era, but you could do something like take its current bonuses and give it something like +2 culture and +2 faith per adjacent wonder, or have it give +1 food to adjacent farms, or something along that line. Enough that that you're going to want to place them and spam them as much as you can when you get a chance, since right now they're definitely more of an improvement that you might want a couple of them down early on, but after that, aren't much use of a tile improvement except in places that you literally can't put anything else down.

My hot take is they should have gone way out of the box and given egypt a unique Sphinx World Wonder, has to be next to another wonder. (Possibly also on a river.)
Doesn't really matter what it does, it would just make the other cultures seethe with envy and you'd feel like a total Pharaoh.

they're being so selective (and a bit paltry, sadly) with alternate leaders.

I think they made alt leaders so that the game didn't have the heavy technical restrictions that civ5 did, where a leader was a civ. IIRC they once said as much and also that they didn't really plan to give tons of alt leaders, it was more for modding.
Although with the heavy level of uniqueness in civs now, i can see why coming up with a very distinct leader bonus who would mesh great with an existing set of bonuses designed around another leader ability, times a bunch of leaders, is more than they might want to do. Although totally great way to drop some DLC fodder, people would definitely pay for that.

 

[Jkchart]

I think they made alt leaders so that the game didn't have the heavy technical restrictions that civ5 did, where a leader was a civ. IIRC they once said as much and also that they didn't really plan to give tons of alt leaders, it was more for modding.
Although with the heavy level of uniqueness in civs now, i can see why coming up with a very distinct leader bonus who would mesh great with an existing set of bonuses designed around another leader ability, times a bunch of leaders, is more than they might want to do. Although totally great way to drop some DLC fodder, people would definitely pay for that.

You're not wrong, Sostratus. I remember something along those lines as well. I don't need a flood of them, but I feel like there's room for a few more than the three (technically four since Eleanor is a two-for-one) they've given us.

 

[steveg700]

China, Egypt, Rome.

Good choices.

I'd say America, but can't really think of a good one to lend itself to game mechanics.

Maybe Abraham Lincoln with some ability relating to some kind of benefit during dark ages, capturing free states, or somesuch. I dunno. Not too enticing really.

Maybe Kennedy and something related to the Space Race? Again, I dunno. Probably would not have been regarded as a great prez when you scratch beneath the surface.

Wouldn't mind a more modern leader for Germany or Russia. Of course, Russia is so strongly tied to religion & faith that it would be odd to bring in a commie leader and still use the same uniques.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Good choices.

I'd say America, but can't really think of a good one to lend itself to game mechanics.

Maybe Abraham Lincoln with some ability relating to some kind of benefit during dark ages, capturing free states, or somesuch. I dunno. Not too enticing really.

Maybe Kennedy and something related to the Space Race? Again, I dunno. Probably would not have been regarded as a great prez when you scratch beneath the surface.

Wouldn't mind a more modern leader for Germany or Russia. Of course, Russia is so strongly tied to religion & faith that it would be odd to bring in a commie leader and still use the same uniques.

An expansionist Thomas Jefferson would be pretty neat. "Louisiana Purchase" bonus to buying tiles, perhaps bonus to settlers and scout class units.

 

[DWilson]

I would love Kublai (China and Mongolia), Jefferson, and Hapsethsput

 

[Pietato]

Egypt is still weak. There is far too much of their bonuses in flood plains and RNG.

 

[Scaramanga]

Not bad as in easy on the eyes.

 

[Phoenix1595]

Egypt’s new flood mitigation ability is tops. Not only does it prevent the negative effects of flooding, but a floodplain-based civ can grow very quickly, very early from the additional food. This effect perfectly mirrors what made Ancient Egypt great to begin with, and helps get your civ online faster and avoid potential pitfalls like loyalty issues. Egypt isn’t the production/archer warhorse like Nubia, but it does well.

 

[Pietato]

Problem is that floodplains suck until they have flooded a bit, which is entirely random. Also, floodplains are generally surrounded by flat land, meaning your production is rubbish, which makes it hard to produce your chariots. You are also supposed to build districts and wonders along rivers, which of course means they lose their yields...

Egypt is still bottom tier. Competing mechanics, reliance on RNG, and poor production sink them.

 

[MarigoldRan]

With Sphinxes flood plains are not bad. For the cost of a single builder you can get the equivalent of 3 monuments.

 

[Morningcalm]

The real-life Cleopatra was fascinating and apparently not as awful at domestic policy as we might assume:

The Civ VI Cleopatra is interesting as a character (given her animation), but ability-wise to play as I am not as keen given how passive trade bonuses are. It would be cool if she got some additional diplomatic bonuses to go along with her agenda (though I guess the alliance points from trading is at least a nod in the right direction).

But gameplay wise, let's be clear, this thread when discussing floodplains or the sphinx is ultimately discussing how it is to play Egypt in Civ VI, rather than Cleopatra as such. Would be kinda nice if we got a second Egyptian leader, like Senusret III or Thutmose III or Taharqa, but oh well.

 

[Pietato]

With Sphinxes flood plains are not bad. For the cost of a single builder you can get the equivalent of 3 monuments.

You do know you actually have to work those squares, right?

 

[MarigoldRan]

So? You'll have plenty of population thanks to those floodplains and trade routes.