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Coastal start issues redux

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by GhostSalsa, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. GhostSalsa

    GhostSalsa Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,010
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I think I've posted a thread about coastal starts before... my apologies if so.

    I spend a lot of time thinking about coastal starts and why they are frequently not as good as they should be and I just realized an obvious kink maybe?

    I play on straight Continents standard size so there's obviously an (average) limit of available good coast starts on any map. Meanwhile, a larger-than-accomidatable proportion of Civs are Naval-based. So there are gaps.

    We know Venice has priority favoring or whatever but I get bad starts (no coastal resources, or "ocean-lake") with Venice a lot. And in my last game as England, I got a great start! - but AI Ottomans and Indonesia were both founded inland on my continent, poor guys.

    Which is when it hit me. Every time I choose to play as a naval Civ, I'm only reducing the randomly seeded naval players by 1/8th (now it is a third (or whatever) of 7 civs instead of a third of 8 - basically still 3 or so) and adding 1. I am increasing the amount of naval players by 7/8ths of an 8th or something.

    This is why my choice of a Naval civ is partly self-defeating - because I have increased competition! This is why I end up frustrated trying to get the most out of Naval civs - I'm crowding the proverbial boat!

    Obviously there is a ton of luck in the draw and I can end up the only naval civ, or choose a land civ and have 7 naval AIs. I understand probability. But my frustration is with the trend. The trend is that I am 7/8ths over-seeding Naval civs when I want to have a good coast start.

    Unless someone knows of a thing in the game that compensates for that by limiting seeded naval AIs? Anyway that was my revelation.
     
  2. Electric Ferret

    Electric Ferret Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    11
    I had some similar thoughts on coastal starts and naval games. What I ended up doing was making myself a couple custom maps in the World Builder to play on and ensuring all the coastal Start Position were a fine slice of coast. Give the AI optimal conditions and equitable resources.

    That does help to make things nice for a Grudge Match of the Naval Civs. Downside of course being you know where everything on the map you built is. Still, it gives everyone a nice petri dish to grow in and see what they can do in optimal conditions.
     
  3. Amarr Emperor

    Amarr Emperor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Now something we need to make sure we understand & verify with source code before we go on with the topic...

    How exactly does start bias and start resources work?

    2 main possibilities I can think of:

    #1 resources are placed on the map first, and then the civs are placed according to their start bias

    #2 Civs are placed on the map first, and then a number of luxury + bonus resources are put next to the civ's starting location.

    Obviously these 2 (if not more possibilities) would drastically change the way we look at "competition" for start locations
     

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