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Coastal start issues redux

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by GhostSalsa, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. GhostSalsa

    GhostSalsa Emperor

    Jul 7, 2012
    Austin, TX
    I think I've posted a thread about coastal starts before... my apologies if so.

    I spend a lot of time thinking about coastal starts and why they are frequently not as good as they should be and I just realized an obvious kink maybe?

    I play on straight Continents standard size so there's obviously an (average) limit of available good coast starts on any map. Meanwhile, a larger-than-accomidatable proportion of Civs are Naval-based. So there are gaps.

    We know Venice has priority favoring or whatever but I get bad starts (no coastal resources, or "ocean-lake") with Venice a lot. And in my last game as England, I got a great start! - but AI Ottomans and Indonesia were both founded inland on my continent, poor guys.

    Which is when it hit me. Every time I choose to play as a naval Civ, I'm only reducing the randomly seeded naval players by 1/8th (now it is a third (or whatever) of 7 civs instead of a third of 8 - basically still 3 or so) and adding 1. I am increasing the amount of naval players by 7/8ths of an 8th or something.

    This is why my choice of a Naval civ is partly self-defeating - because I have increased competition! This is why I end up frustrated trying to get the most out of Naval civs - I'm crowding the proverbial boat!

    Obviously there is a ton of luck in the draw and I can end up the only naval civ, or choose a land civ and have 7 naval AIs. I understand probability. But my frustration is with the trend. The trend is that I am 7/8ths over-seeding Naval civs when I want to have a good coast start.

    Unless someone knows of a thing in the game that compensates for that by limiting seeded naval AIs? Anyway that was my revelation.
  2. Electric Ferret

    Electric Ferret Chieftain

    Aug 24, 2013
    I had some similar thoughts on coastal starts and naval games. What I ended up doing was making myself a couple custom maps in the World Builder to play on and ensuring all the coastal Start Position were a fine slice of coast. Give the AI optimal conditions and equitable resources.

    That does help to make things nice for a Grudge Match of the Naval Civs. Downside of course being you know where everything on the map you built is. Still, it gives everyone a nice petri dish to grow in and see what they can do in optimal conditions.
  3. Amarr Emperor

    Amarr Emperor Chieftain

    Oct 28, 2013
    Now something we need to make sure we understand & verify with source code before we go on with the topic...

    How exactly does start bias and start resources work?

    2 main possibilities I can think of:

    #1 resources are placed on the map first, and then the civs are placed according to their start bias

    #2 Civs are placed on the map first, and then a number of luxury + bonus resources are put next to the civ's starting location.

    Obviously these 2 (if not more possibilities) would drastically change the way we look at "competition" for start locations

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