Patient English
Designer
..or I could obsolete Arquebusiers with Flintlock, but in reality, both sorts or troops werer raised simultaneously for quite some while, as the old Matchlocks were so much cheaper, and needed less maintenance.
Colonies IV BetaTesters' Thread
- Thread starter Patient English
- Start date
Henrik
Emperor
I'd obsolete them, if for no other reason, to keep the unit build list shorter 
Patient English
Designer
Yes, although Prometeus or someone was just chiding me that the Swedish still used Pikemen in 1710, so they shouldn't be obsoleted even when Grenadiers are available.
I don't mind a long build list, as long as (a) the units left in it all have at least a possible reason for wanting to build them and (b) the AI chooses the most appropriate ones to build, in the right proportions.
I don't mind a long build list, as long as (a) the units left in it all have at least a possible reason for wanting to build them and (b) the AI chooses the most appropriate ones to build, in the right proportions.
Patient English
Designer
Sure. It's in the mail today....
Henrik
Emperor
Sweden and Russia both still used Pikemen (and to good effect to as I recall) during the great Nordic wars.
Still I wonder if those pikemen would corespond with the 17th century ones in game terms?
Still I wonder if those pikemen would corespond with the 17th century ones in game terms?
Patient English
Designer
Dunno. What were their tactics like...? That pike looks a lot shorter than a 17th century one. And they have no armour. How deep were their pike blocks?
Henrik
Emperor
I can't say I know very much about them either 
I believe though, that one of the reasons for the use of pikemen was that the Swedish army consisted of far more cavalry than was usual by that time (50% of the Swedish army was cavalry by 1701!) and while the russian army was more regular in it's proportions I suppose that considering the size of that army they still had quite a lot of cavalry for the Swedes protect against
Also I suppose pikemen are cheaper than musketeers as anti cavalry protection...
I found this when searching for "great nordic war tactics": http://www.algonet.se/~hogman/stridsformeringar.htm
The text there is in swedish, but should you want to look at the pictures, the red squares are pikemen, the light blue are grenadiers and the green ones are musketeers (the dark blue picture at the bottom is a cavalry formation).
It seems that basicly there where half as many pikemen as there where musketeers in a regiment (same is true for a company).
Pikemen and Musketeers fighting together:
The only reason I mentioned it is becouse I know they where somewhat effective and either the pikemen should still be good enough to tackle State commisioned cavalry, or there should be a more modern pikeman.
While searching I also found this picture:
Which would seem to imply that Prussia also used pikemen during the 18th century (acording to the text under the picture the soldier is from 1756).
If you have problems with unit slots though I don't think it'd be too horrible if you left this kind of unit out, of the nations in this scenario only one seem to have used pikemen by 1700
I believe though, that one of the reasons for the use of pikemen was that the Swedish army consisted of far more cavalry than was usual by that time (50% of the Swedish army was cavalry by 1701!) and while the russian army was more regular in it's proportions I suppose that considering the size of that army they still had quite a lot of cavalry for the Swedes protect against
Also I suppose pikemen are cheaper than musketeers as anti cavalry protection...
I found this when searching for "great nordic war tactics": http://www.algonet.se/~hogman/stridsformeringar.htm
The text there is in swedish, but should you want to look at the pictures, the red squares are pikemen, the light blue are grenadiers and the green ones are musketeers (the dark blue picture at the bottom is a cavalry formation).
It seems that basicly there where half as many pikemen as there where musketeers in a regiment (same is true for a company).
Pikemen and Musketeers fighting together:
The only reason I mentioned it is becouse I know they where somewhat effective and either the pikemen should still be good enough to tackle State commisioned cavalry, or there should be a more modern pikeman.
While searching I also found this picture:
Which would seem to imply that Prussia also used pikemen during the 18th century (acording to the text under the picture the soldier is from 1756).
If you have problems with unit slots though I don't think it'd be too horrible if you left this kind of unit out, of the nations in this scenario only one seem to have used pikemen by 1700
Henrik
Emperor
Prom posted while I was typing! 
Patient English
Designer
OK, well as they fought integrated with Musketeers, just think of the Swedish Musketeers as having a few pikemen. The Prussian COULD be a pikeman, I suppose, but he looks more like a Halberd-carrying NCO. The Brits had them up to 1830-ish, but they were used for whacking their own men into line more than against the enemy!
Henrik
Emperor
The image was titled as a Pikeman anyway 
Aravorn
Deity
John
First of all Im not rushing, Im just asking OK?
What is the current estimated timetable for ver 04? Im asking because Im wondering if I should start a 03 playtest or wait. I ddn't like the way the last one went (I played till 1660 or so) and was going to try another. Probally starting this wed or thursday. Im quite busy till then.
First of all Im not rushing, Im just asking OK?
What is the current estimated timetable for ver 04? Im asking because Im wondering if I should start a 03 playtest or wait. I ddn't like the way the last one went (I played till 1660 or so) and was going to try another. Probally starting this wed or thursday. Im quite busy till then.
Andrew Livings
Warlord
John, I didn't know you were London-based. I thought you were on the coast?
Patient English
Designer
SKI, ETA for 0.4 is Sunday night.
Andrew, I'm actually based in Bath now (a beautiful Georgian city just east of Bristol), but I often work in London, and might meet SKI there one day soon. I used to live near the south coast - near Brighton. Not far from where the Battle of Hastings was fought in 1066.
Andrew, I'm actually based in Bath now (a beautiful Georgian city just east of Bristol), but I often work in London, and might meet SKI there one day soon. I used to live near the south coast - near Brighton. Not far from where the Battle of Hastings was fought in 1066.
Patient English
Designer
Prometeus - like I said - whacking them into line! 
insurgent
Exhausted
Sounds very "NKVD-ish"...
Patient English
Designer
Absolutely. Nothing new under the sun....The Persians used whip men for the same sort of thing in 400 BC. I guess you could say a prod in the back with the blunt end of a Halberd was progess!
