Computer Cheats!?! -- Leaving my territory at once my A--!

[Nomad_Wanderer]

Has anyone noticed that when you wander through any of the computer's territories, they make you leave, ("your units will be moved automatically") yet when the computer does it to you, they say they will, and yet continue to move right through?
At every turn I requested that Lincoln and Hiawatha pull their units back. Every turn they said they would. Every turn they kept on truckin through my turf....

What gives? This has to be a bug right?

Is there any way to stop this w/o declaring war? If not, is there any way to turn off the stupid ("your units will move automatically") option?

Just frustrated that I ended up losing my first monarch game...(Year 1980 too! )

NW

 

[magnifico]

I've been warned for wandering through a territory and had the option to just say fine fine, i'll do it. Then the next turn they warned me it only had the option of automatically removing my units.

The Aztecs tried this on me, they somehow snuck a Colony into a little hole in my territory which I didn't see. Then they tried to bring Phalanx in to defend it. I warned and warned all the way to the colony. They kept saying yes yes we'll go. I suppose when the Civ has more than just exploring on their minds they can get as far as they want.

Needless to say I crushed their colony and marched on their Capital to reprimand their leader.

Yeah, I was playing Chieftan.. it's my first time round.

 

[ainwood]

Instead of going the full diplomatic route to demand they move their troops out, try right-clicking on the actual troops in your territory. You should have an option to remove them.

 

[KillerRabbit]

They should have an option like this:

If anyone enters my terratory (without right of passage) it means WAR directly, so if the AI trys to enter he will recieve :This will cause war with this civ, are u sure?

since almost never the AI wants war this way, he would never ever enter your terratory!

Quite simpel!

 

[Nomad_Wanderer]

Instead of going the full diplomatic route to demand they move their troops out, try right-clicking on the actual troops in your territory. You should have an option to remove them.

What option are you referring to? When I right click, I'll I get is Terrain info, contact the particular unit, and something else (can't remember..)


I keep clicking on contact, and up pops the civ leader, and I demand that he leaves, and he agrees, but does not.

It's a bug.....At least I hope it is.


(Yeah. Yeah. I know. I buy software regularly. It'll be fixed in the patch. )

hah.

 

[PolarisXP]

Is this a bug or is it that the computer is just lying through its back teeth to you?

I think if the AI likes you or considers your civ powerful then you get little or no incursions.

This is mirroring real life like Saddam Hussian with the UN weapons inspectors or when he agreed to "remove" his forces from Kuwait.

 

[PanaGo]

Originally posted by KillerRabbit
They should have an option like this:

If anyone enters my terratory (without right of passage) it means WAR directly, so if the AI trys to enter he will recieve :This will cause war with this civ, are u sure?

since almost never the AI wants war this way, he would never ever enter your terratory!

Quite simpel!

Yeap,that sounds nice to me and it would only make the game more reallistic. I mean, let the opposite leader take the risk,know what he is going to pay if he just wants to move from your territory. If you want to expend and expand mr.AI then, pay the consequences! I would also love to see an "expell unit" command.

 

[Malys Faisent]

I think, at least to a certain extint, the AI actually tracks the forces you have and what you have done/are doing with them. I had a similar problem getting the AI out of my lands, but once I got into war with the Persians the other AIs started pulling their units out of my territory right when I demanded that they do.

In other words, if you've never been to war the AI isn't going to be as concerned that you might attack them, conversely if you are in war the AI might very well think that you would attack them.

 

[Nomad_Wanderer]

I think, at least to a certain extint, the AI actually tracks the forces you have and what you have done/are doing with them. I had a similar problem getting the AI out of my lands, but once I got into war with the Persians the other AIs started pulling their units out of my territory right when I demanded that they do

That's all fine and dandy, but you're missing the point. I don't have an option of not listening to a request to leave, the AI does.
Because of this, they can "hop" over me with settlers. When I try it, I get booted out, "automatically".


Also, it would be nice to see how the battle calculations are done....(I just lost the GOTM when 2 swordsman over ran 3 immortals and a spearman in a walled city...)

 

[Malys Faisent]

I'm not missing the point at all...

You don't have that option because the AI doesn't consider you a threat...grow some and force a nation off your land or get into a war with a rival.

You only ever have one option, and that is to demand that they leave, you never, ever, ever get an option to remove specific troops or say, "Leave now, or I declare war on you."

The AI thinks that you are a wimp, you gonna sit there and take it or are you going to teach one of them a lesson that they will all understand? :ripper:

Thats my point



By the way, the AIs cannot force you out of their territory if you don't want them to either...best they can do is goto war with you...you don't have to leave.

(P.S. I'm really not trying to be mean, but I am trying to give you an idea of basically what the AI is 'thinking')

 

[PolarisXP]

You do get the same choices as the AI. I have wondered across the Germans borders and Bismark asked me to leave so I said Yes Ok I'll remove the troops, I then left them there, he came back again and asked me to leave so again I said ok. After 3 or 4 times he gave me the option of leave of declare war, I had a choice to attack him or auto move my troops back across the border.

This has also worked when I have asked other AI nations to move, weaker nations move straight away, nations on an equal footing sometimes say ok but leave the troops there but will remove them when I threaten them with war. If they consider your civ to be weak (ie less troops than they have) they will then tell you what you can go and do with your threats.

If you keep crossing their borders they will do the same to you, if they have asked nice for a few times then they threaten you. After that, every time you cross into their land they will just issue you with a final demand.

 

[eyrei]

Sometimes, the only reason the AI moves a unit into your territory is to provoke you into war. The irritating thing is that, while the AI can force you to declare war if you do not want to remove your unit, YOU must declare war to get the AI to leave. This situation sucks when you are a Democracy, because war weariness is much worse when you are the agressor. The human player needs to be able to demand that the AI declare war to remain in ones territory.

 

[Malys Faisent]

You do get the same choices as the AI

Sort of, but not exactly. You never have the option of demanding that they leave right now. At best you get the option of demanding that they leave, and if they do not immediately, you can declare war on them. This isn't exactly like the AI's option of stating, "Leave, or I declare war on you." Basically the threat part (I declare war on you) is not part of the equation...you can only back that up with action, either previous actions (which makes it more likely that they will recognize your demand as a threat) or by declaring the war itself.

Having a good deal of troops, especially more than the nation involved will cause the AI to equate the demand with the threat of war...but the AI isn't a person so all it can do is compare numbers...you cannot threaten a numerical system.

 

[Nomad_Wanderer]

The irritating thing is that, while the AI can force you to declare war if you do not want to remove your unit, YOU must declare war to get the AI to leave.

That's really what I'm referring to.....Seems like a little bit of a double standard. If I want to stay in an opponent's territory, I have to declare war(or I'll automatically be removed). But, If I want an opponent to leave my terriritory, I have to .... declare war.


Either way, it seems like a little lop-sided towards the AI....

 

[eyrei]

I don't think the AI says "Leave or I declare war on you." I think it says "Leave immediately or declare war." I could be wrong...

 

[PolarisXP]

Well people wanted AI that is more devious and realistic, it is upto you if you risk saying "remove your troops or declare war" or do you just ignore it??

People do try and provoke others into starting a fight.

 

[PolarisXP]

If you say to the AI enough times to leave you will get an option to say either leave now or declare war.

I was warned by the Germans 3 or 4 times before they said they would declare war on me, after they did this any further warning were just leave now.

It all depends on many factors, including your strength, AI's Strength, and the relationship between you and the AI. If he is furious with you and doesn't like you then he wont exactly say please will he??

 

[Rife]

The way I get around this is simple. If you like them then just
get a right of passage agreement, but while doing that make
sure to keep a close eye out for resources outside your
boundaries. If you don't like them, then fight.

In my experience, they most often choose to move automatically
rather than go to war. If I read this thread correctly then your
complaint has gone from the "computer cheats" and won't
leave to a relatively minor complaint over who declares war.

From what I have seen in the game you are right that the
computer if he doesn't like you and thinks he can take on your
army will just do as he darn well pleases and ignore you, thus
often making you either go to war or give in and let him wander
around.

 

[scadam]

I haven't had any trouble getting any enemy units to leave my territory and there IS a consistent way to do it.

First, you don't use the dipomacy screen - you right-click on the enemy unit that's in your territory and ask them to leave. The other civ's leader will pop up and say that of course he'll move the unit. I've never seen them actually follow through and do it though...

Anyway, the key to this is that on your NEXT turn (assuming the enemy unit is still in your territory), you again right-click on that same enemy unit, and this time you have the option to tell the enemy leader to "remove unit or declare war". Unless that unit was intended to start a war, he will remove it (and all his other units) to the nearest edge of your border. I've done this many times and the same formula always applies - the first time you ask politely, the second time he has to start a war to stay.

Essentially the only way the enemy can pass through your territory without you allowing it is if he only has to spend one of your turns parked on your land (or you're simply not paying attention). This is critical to know in the early game when your neighbours keep trying to build cities in "your" area.

The last game I played, I set up cities with overlapping culture to cut my half of the continent off as quickly as possible. The guy I shared the continent with tried sending MANY settlers my way but couldn't make it through until he used a boat and dropped a settler off behind me. By then I owned most of the land and simply absorbed his city culturally after a while. It was funny stopping him from sending workers and city defenders to his new city (not sure why he didn't just use the boat again).

 

[ainwood]

My "right-click" comment was based on what it says in the manual. Apparently, you should be able to right-click on the unit and ask it to leave. I guess this requires you to go via the diplomacy window. It would be a nice addition if you could just "ask to leave" from the right-click menu. Even if (as per the other posts here) the AI 'decides' whether to obey or not.