Concern about Tech Pace

[al_thor]

I'm looking forward to the first CivIV GOTM, but I have concerns about the tech pace in the mid-to-late-game.

How will the GOTM-CivIV deal with the 'out-of-control' tech pace problem (that is, if you plan to deal with it at all)?

I have played more than a few games, and I can vouch for the tech pace problem.

Any ideas?

 

[RoddyVR]

ok, confused. what is this "tech pace problem" ?
i've played a few games, and have yet to encounter a tech pace problem anywhere in the middle ages.
do you mean that it goes too fast in the middle ages?
or that it goes too slow?
or that someone one player will be able to make it go faster then the other players?
is this an exploit of some bug?

if every one can do it, and its not because of a bug, then i see no problem iwth it.
heck, if its just something like the fact that some of the midlle age techs are too cheap for their time, then even the AI gets them cheap, so its not a problem even in single player games.
this is a competition of which players do better in identical situations, so its actualy prety hard to come up with a real "problem" unless its something that some people will consider acceptable and others will consider cheating.

 

[Shillen]

I would suggest all future GOTM games use epic speed. I know that sucks for people who are limited with time, but normal game speed really does not allow for enough time to wage war effectively, since that involves moving a lot of units around. You get fewer turns to move them, but they still move the same number of tiles per turn.

 

[al_thor]

@RoddyVR:
Maybe not so much MiddleA, but in the the ModernA, things speed up out of control, with the AI flying through techs every 3 to 4 turns, beating you easily to the Space Race (which I hate anyway).

 

[PaperBeetle]

I'm a slow player at the best of times, so the idea of playing Epic makes me weep, but I do get the problem; when I'm trying to go a-conquering, I find I get to take about one town per tech level! The problem is excacerbated by the steep cost of upgrading units, relative to the tech speed.
But I freely admit that I don't 'get' this game yet. I'm dying to get this 4OTM started so I can see how the experts do things.

 

[DaveMcW]

The AI loves to build cottages, which means they have a great research rate by the end of the game. On the flip side, their unit production stinks. So if you dedicate your entire empire to producing units, you should have no trouble running them over.

Remember to bombard cities to the max before attacking with real units. If neccesary, suicide some artillery for barrage damage.

 

[Hiawatha24]

epic speed? sure make every diplomat/spaceship/domination player have to play twice as long, just so the conquest players get to move around infantry and tanks a couple of turns longer and while we're at it, why not play a duel size deity game because it takes so much skills to beat an AI 1on1...

 

[Shillen]

Yay for sarcasm. Just fyi I'm a builder type and tend to go for space/diplo far more than military victories. Why don't you try some war mongering games and see how hard it is on normal speed? They sped up all the mid-late game techs in civ4 compared to civ3 and at the same time they reduced the movement points on units and the mobility of railroads. Combine the two and warmongering becomes way too difficult. Civ3 was too biased towards warmongering; I'll say so myself. But civ4 is the complete opposite. If you're a warmonger and you play on anything other than epic speed you're screwed. So how about you think of other playstyles other than your own. And leave the "lol"s and things out of your post as that's trolling.

 

[widdowmaker]

u guys rock. pros.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Tech pace problem? My Praetorians will be resting without enemies before the AI can get there.

 

[wooga]

I thought Civ3 was too biased against warfare, compared to Civ2. But, after enough experience, I figured out ways to maximize warfare in Civ3. I'm banking on that happening in Civ4 as well.

The "tech pace" issue is that military units become obsolete in very few turns. So, by the time you've amassed a Civ3 size army, your units are obsolete. People suggest artificially slowing the tech rate at various points in the game (3 to 4 turns should be financially difficult). I think the solution is figuring out how to depress the AI's research rate (pillaging, diplomacy, ??), creating a "dark ages" where the tech pace is stagnant. I was able to do this in Civ3, so I figure I'll eventually figure it out in Civ4. For the first few GOTM, I'll be trying non-military victories.

 

[Hiawatha24]

oki, as we're talking gotm, i expect we're talking difficulty below monarch. first off, let me admit i would never go for conquest victory, as i just can't see how taking every city on every island on a standard map could ever be quicker (in realtime, not in gameyears) than science/spaceship, religion/diplomatic or food/domination.
so far science/spaceship has been the easiest for me, just get 6 good cities during the course of the game, never adopt a state religion, say yes to all tribute demands except key technologies, say no to all dow/embargo, keep a well sized army to not appear weak at any time, and you should easily steer clear of any unwanted wars.
religion/diplomatic is a bit more tedious, but actually pretty fun i'd say. head straight for buddhism or hinduism, and convert all your fellow players. make sure you get a prophet asap for that holy shrine, and then pump out missionaries by the dozen. converting is actually pretty easy, just make sure your fellow players always have your religion in more of their cities than any other religion. build the UN, never propose free religion, don't leave anyone you ever attack alive.
and if you're neither a hardcore citybuilder, nor a religious fanatic, you can still comfortably go for domination. 1 war with macemen/knights, 1 war with gunpowder and 1 war with infantry/tanks should be enough to eliminate 3 of your fellow players and get domination on a 7 player standard map.
i've never played cultural victory but i assume it will work just as well with normal speed.

and then there's conquest. maybe conquest isn't meant for a game that goes into modern age? as one poster pointed out, conquest kind of goes hand in hand with UU rushes. as another pointed out, if your enemies are catching up to your war tech too quickly, maybe you're not crippling his research enough? and what if we're playing emperor and you don't have the technological edge to begin with? what's so great about getting attacked by superior technology twice as long?

sorry man, imho civ tech pace is well balanced. by the time anybody is researching from tank to modern tank you plain shouldn't be going for conquest victory anymore. what i'm more concerned about is the chop rush, i can't seem to shake this habit...

 

[Wanderer]

What level are you finding it impossible to keep up with the AI? I've played one chieftain game, and now 4 on Noble. I've won 2 domination on Noble, and 2 spaceships, so I'm wondering if this is an issue at the higher levels? granted, I'm only lanuching late in the game, but I had tech supremacy in both of the domination wins, and the last space win (the first space win I was actually behind in tech, but had superior production, and launched in ... 2049 )

 

[Birdjaguar]

The tech race shouldn't be a problem on Noble, unless we start on a continent without many AI. I am far more worried that things like stone and marble and iron will be missing from our neighborhood.

 

[LeSphinx]

Wanderer , when you win by diplomacy: you win by a warmonger strategy or a culturalmonger or a mix of the 2 ?
LeSphinx

 

[Shillen]

No one said it was hard to keep up with the tech pace on noble. We're saying the tech pace is too fast for both the player and the AI's. This means your units get outdated before you can put them to use.

 

[al_thor]

Okay, yeah, on Noble, there should be no problem. I "forgot" (spaced-out) this was going to be Noble.

On Prince, I'm doing "okay to good" keeping up with the AI.

On Monarch, forget it once you hit the Modern Ages.

 

[Yushal]

If you want to slow down tech, pillage all those cottages, and adopt mercantilism (and force allies to adopt it also).

I assume if you want to slow tech that you want a military victory. Hit em early and often. The AI will tend to go for peace fairly easilly in my experience. So send a stack of fast movers in and pillage all their towns down to nothing while you are fighting your real war of the moment.

 

[tharg]

Playing my first standard game (GOTM1), always epic before, and I am amazed by the tech pace. Around Scintific method and about two turns an advance, one turn for older ones. Really I think its a problme. You can research a unit's upgrade quicker than you can build it.

Maybe the later techs should take a litte longer.

 

[dvandyke]

The Modern age is utter sh*te. You don't have any time to fight an intercontinental modern war before the space race is won. This sucks and spoils the game. I like epic much more.