Concerning 1UPT

[Kyriakos]

They said that civ5 will be more moddable than any other of the series, and then they present a one unit per tile rule.
Well, if it is so moddable, and since they had released the source code for civ4, would it not follow that people can mod this rule out?
Or is there something i am missing?

 

[phungus420]

If we get similar source code exposure it could definitely be changed. I wouldn't want to though, the combat changes are the best thing I've heard about civ5; should be much more interesting. Personally I'd like to implement a Panzer General like combat model for civ4, but getting the AI to understand it just isn't practical. A similar issue with the AI will occur if you mod in multiple units per tile for civ5.

 

[Ahriman]

You're missing something.

Changing the "number of units allowed in a tile" to be 5 instead of 1 does not allow the AI to understand how to handle that sensibly, and doesn't change the unit stats or combat mechanics to have that make sense.

For example, combat with stacks could get *really* annoying when a single battle doesn't destroy either unit; it could get insanely difficult to ever get a complete kill on a unit.
Supposing it takes on average 3 attacks to kill a unit entirely, then attacking a stack of 4 units it will take on average 9 attacks before you can even kill 1 of them.
(First 4 attacks injure each unit once, second 4 units injure each unit a second time, only after that do units start to die.)

 

[Chalks]

You're missing something.

Changing the "number of units allowed in a tile" to be 5 instead of 1 does not allow the AI to understand how to handle that sensibly, and doesn't change the unit stats or combat mechanics to have that make sense.

For example, combat with stacks could get *really* annoying when a single battle doesn't destroy either unit; it could get insanely difficult to ever get a complete kill on a unit.
Supposing it takes on average 3 attacks to kill a unit entirely, then attacking a stack of 4 units it will take on average 9 attacks before you can even kill 1 of them.
(First 4 attacks injure each unit once, second 4 units injure each unit a second time, only after that do units start to die.)

Exactly.

Civilization 4 has unit stacking deeply integrated into the combat, like algorithms to decide which unit should defend against a particular attacking unit.

Even a simple check for remaining units on a tile after victory would probably be absent from Civ 5's code - if defeating a unit on a tile always means your unit moves into that tile and captures any civilian units there this code will still attempt to operate if there were multiple defending units on the tile.

So many knock on effects when moving from a 1upt to a *upt system. If limited multiple stacks were allowed, increasing the limit would be far more feasible, but there will be large problems if the game simply doesn't understand that there might be two defenders on one tile.

 

[bigdog5994]

what about combining units in to armies like in civ III

 

[Chalks]

That certainly sounds like it would be possible - although I don't know if it'll give those looking for a stacking system what they're wanting.

 

[CyberChrist]

Civ3-like armies would certainly address some of the more obvious problems with a 1upt system, but even so then it wouldn't really do much to help alleviate most of the fundamental problems related to loss of realism and reduction in playstyle options.

 

[aziantuntija]

I agree that there propably should also be a somekind of simplified combat system (like stacks) for the players that are not so interested about tactical combat in a civ game. But the thing is that it would be pretty hard (more like impossible) to make something like that a optional thing cause it would basicly mean two different games with different AI.