acluewithout
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2017
- Messages
- 3,470
I’m always a bit bemused with these sorts of threads. I honestly don’t get most people’s gripes about Civ VI at all.
I really, really like Civ VI as is. It’s the most Civ-y Civ there’s ever been. Yes, I really like the mechanics. Yes, even Eurekas. Yes, even Religion. Yes, even Loyalty. And yes I like the graphics too - they’re excellent - although I do flip between the base graphics and Civ V pallet mod from time to time (both are excellent; I really can’t choose).
The core game design of Civ VI and overall presentation is just spot on. I’d probably not really get into Civ 7 if it went in a different direction.
I’m not really going to debate whether particular mechanics are good or not, because I do think a lot of that is just about personal expectations and preferences. But I really don’t feel some of the dislike and disappointment that Loyalty, Religion, Eurekas and a bunch other mechanics get. To me, once I felt like I grokked them, these mechanics all seemed to have heaps of depth, really interesting design choices, and all really pushed the “play the map” and “Giant Board Game” style of gameplay.
For me, the only stuff where I think Civ VI or a hypothetical Civ VII could do better are:
1. Bugs. I haven’t experienced many game breaking bugs. But there are bugs and they need to get squashed.
2. Gameplay snags. There’s a bunch of little gameplay elements that I think just aren’t quite tweaked right. Some of these are frankly changes that were made in the last couple of patches that should be reverted back. None are game changing, but together would make the game a bit tighter.
Stuff like:
> Lumber mills should be a bit more situational / map dependent instead of just “always good” like mines (eg bring back river adjacencies);
> Autocracy / Oligarchy card changes were awful, change them back;
> allow some sort of spying on Allies again;
> Aircraft Carriers should upgrade via tech tree like GDRs not via Promotions;
> a few more future tech units please;
> let Tier 4 governments use T3 exclusive policy cards;
> simplify and tighten up some of the World Congress Resolutions and make some of the resolutions more of a trade off (eg ban “Animal Luxuries” not specifically “Fox Fur”; buff or punish all Civs on continent x or with Government y, not just a specific Civ);
> a bit more challenge around maintenance costs.
3. Late game. My biggest gripe by far is Civ V had a better late game. Civ VI late game content still feels a bit empty (notwithstanding GDRs) and focused on mechanics that let you rush through the end game rather than really enjoy playing your advanced empire and jostling with other advanced players / AI.
Specially:
> Late Game Governors . Civ VI Governors are an awesome mechanic, and are very much like Civ V’s Social Policies just limited to one City at a time. But there’s really no equivalent to Civ V’s Ideological Tenets via Governors. To my mind, there really should be something like more powerful “Advanced” Governors that you unlock later in the game via Civics or Governments, which would then add a bit more variety to Governors and make Governors more critical to the end game. You could theme the Late Game Governors around more modern concerns and concepts, eg a Colonial Governor, or Governors themes around Tradition, Liberty, and Collectivism, and maybe give them more Regional Effects.
> Ideological Pressure. I really like the Loyalty Mechanics, and it has really cool interactions with things like Religion and Tourism. But I really wish late game Loyalty morphed into something more like Civ V ideological pressure, forcing your hand on what government you choose and making cultural power and amenities / happiness more critical to the end game.
On the last point, put another way, Civ VI needed a small mini-expansion or mini-season pass after NFP, just fleshing out the end game a bit more and bringing across a few Civ V game elements but reworked for Civ VI (eg late game governors, ideological pressure, some more future units, but also Reformation Beliefs for Religion, Ambassadors, and National Wonders or Wonders linked to particular Governments / Ideologies). It could be called Brave New World, to sort of harken back to Civ V.
I mean, seriously. Brave New World for Civ VI. That would have been just so awesome.
Anyway. guess you could also sort of add AI as a fourth point, but I’m not super worried about it really. Yeah, better AI would be good. So would some more ways to adjust difficulty - I often think higher difficulties could even have slightly different rule sets to make higher levels more challenging. But ultimately, I just kind of accept the AI will always have limits and that’s more or less fine with me.
Sorry. Just reading this thread and a few others, and needed to get that out of my system.
Sadly, the Leader Pass has made it clear to me Firaxis aren’t going to develop Civ VI any further in terms of core gameplay - Civ VI is really great as it is, but that’s does feel like a huge pity even so.
I also don’t think we’ll get a Civ VII any time soon, and I’m not sure even then it would iterate on Civ VI or instead go in a different direction. I not super hopeful about what we’d get.
But I’m still pretty happy with what we got for Civ VI (even Corporations eventually!), so - yeah - guess it’s all fine. Just wish things ended just a bit differently.
I really, really like Civ VI as is. It’s the most Civ-y Civ there’s ever been. Yes, I really like the mechanics. Yes, even Eurekas. Yes, even Religion. Yes, even Loyalty. And yes I like the graphics too - they’re excellent - although I do flip between the base graphics and Civ V pallet mod from time to time (both are excellent; I really can’t choose).
The core game design of Civ VI and overall presentation is just spot on. I’d probably not really get into Civ 7 if it went in a different direction.
I’m not really going to debate whether particular mechanics are good or not, because I do think a lot of that is just about personal expectations and preferences. But I really don’t feel some of the dislike and disappointment that Loyalty, Religion, Eurekas and a bunch other mechanics get. To me, once I felt like I grokked them, these mechanics all seemed to have heaps of depth, really interesting design choices, and all really pushed the “play the map” and “Giant Board Game” style of gameplay.
For me, the only stuff where I think Civ VI or a hypothetical Civ VII could do better are:
1. Bugs. I haven’t experienced many game breaking bugs. But there are bugs and they need to get squashed.
2. Gameplay snags. There’s a bunch of little gameplay elements that I think just aren’t quite tweaked right. Some of these are frankly changes that were made in the last couple of patches that should be reverted back. None are game changing, but together would make the game a bit tighter.
Stuff like:
> Lumber mills should be a bit more situational / map dependent instead of just “always good” like mines (eg bring back river adjacencies);
> Autocracy / Oligarchy card changes were awful, change them back;
> allow some sort of spying on Allies again;
> Aircraft Carriers should upgrade via tech tree like GDRs not via Promotions;
> a few more future tech units please;
> let Tier 4 governments use T3 exclusive policy cards;
> simplify and tighten up some of the World Congress Resolutions and make some of the resolutions more of a trade off (eg ban “Animal Luxuries” not specifically “Fox Fur”; buff or punish all Civs on continent x or with Government y, not just a specific Civ);
> a bit more challenge around maintenance costs.
3. Late game. My biggest gripe by far is Civ V had a better late game. Civ VI late game content still feels a bit empty (notwithstanding GDRs) and focused on mechanics that let you rush through the end game rather than really enjoy playing your advanced empire and jostling with other advanced players / AI.
Specially:
> Late Game Governors . Civ VI Governors are an awesome mechanic, and are very much like Civ V’s Social Policies just limited to one City at a time. But there’s really no equivalent to Civ V’s Ideological Tenets via Governors. To my mind, there really should be something like more powerful “Advanced” Governors that you unlock later in the game via Civics or Governments, which would then add a bit more variety to Governors and make Governors more critical to the end game. You could theme the Late Game Governors around more modern concerns and concepts, eg a Colonial Governor, or Governors themes around Tradition, Liberty, and Collectivism, and maybe give them more Regional Effects.
> Ideological Pressure. I really like the Loyalty Mechanics, and it has really cool interactions with things like Religion and Tourism. But I really wish late game Loyalty morphed into something more like Civ V ideological pressure, forcing your hand on what government you choose and making cultural power and amenities / happiness more critical to the end game.
On the last point, put another way, Civ VI needed a small mini-expansion or mini-season pass after NFP, just fleshing out the end game a bit more and bringing across a few Civ V game elements but reworked for Civ VI (eg late game governors, ideological pressure, some more future units, but also Reformation Beliefs for Religion, Ambassadors, and National Wonders or Wonders linked to particular Governments / Ideologies). It could be called Brave New World, to sort of harken back to Civ V.
I mean, seriously. Brave New World for Civ VI. That would have been just so awesome.
Anyway. guess you could also sort of add AI as a fourth point, but I’m not super worried about it really. Yeah, better AI would be good. So would some more ways to adjust difficulty - I often think higher difficulties could even have slightly different rule sets to make higher levels more challenging. But ultimately, I just kind of accept the AI will always have limits and that’s more or less fine with me.
Sorry. Just reading this thread and a few others, and needed to get that out of my system.
Sadly, the Leader Pass has made it clear to me Firaxis aren’t going to develop Civ VI any further in terms of core gameplay - Civ VI is really great as it is, but that’s does feel like a huge pity even so.
I also don’t think we’ll get a Civ VII any time soon, and I’m not sure even then it would iterate on Civ VI or instead go in a different direction. I not super hopeful about what we’d get.
But I’m still pretty happy with what we got for Civ VI (even Corporations eventually!), so - yeah - guess it’s all fine. Just wish things ended just a bit differently.